Official Episode Discussion: Today Is the Day (1)

  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [1]Mar 13, 2009
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    Discuss away! A pretty good episode.
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    kidkiffin

    [2]Mar 13, 2009
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    damn, the ending was very sad. It started with cameron and sarah and then that scene with john. now he saw that there was a fight goin on, hence riley's scars. why did he apologize, did he think that cameron hurt her before she shot her? or does he sense something fishy is going on?

    now i want to know what the hell is going on with the damn box. is there a new faction of terminators that want to live in peace? like cameron said? is it all a trap?

    i liked the john henry plot and i think it might end up by john hnry telling the truth to ellison about weaver, to protect her daughter.

    this was a good episode and i hope the second part gets us the answers.

    9.0/10

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    aolhater

    [3]Mar 14, 2009
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    Pretty good episode. I'm just chomping at the bit to see the season/series? finale.
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    antdude

    [4]Mar 14, 2009
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    Episode was better than the last few!
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    ilee1990

    [5]Mar 14, 2009
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    Jesse's hand was twitching at the end just like Cameron's. Interesting.
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    Stitllams

    [6]Mar 14, 2009
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    I suspect that John is thinking that the marks on Riley point to her being in a fight with a human.

    That scene with the other Terminators and the box was weird, is the idea that John gets too friendly with the Cyborgs so needs to be turned against them.

    Defintely food for thought until next week.

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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [7]Mar 14, 2009
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    I liked this episode. Not as much as last week's, but it was still very good.
    For me the highlight of the episode was when Sarah dropped the bomb about the "I love you" thing. John's gasp right after that was just brilliant. He lost control over himself for just a second and then snaped back into his old role as the unapproachable John Connor who hides his feelings. (btw. what exactly are his feelings towards Cameron? do you think he loves her? maybe he just can't figure it out)
    However, what really got me thinking was Cameron's phonecall. I really can't tell how much of that was an act and how much was the real Cameron, expressing herself.
    The same thing in the scene where John asks Cameron if she killed Riley. John: "I wanna believe you" Cam: "Believe me!". This "Believe me!" sounds like she is begging. Her voice sounds somehow odd. Well at least he stood up for her and believed her. (very much like in the end of Samson & Delilah, where he is the only one who trusts Cameron)

    One thing really annoyed me though: Why doesn't Ellison put 1+1 together and see that there is something wrong with Weaver. I mean he is an ex-FBI agent and in this episode it was clear that Weaver cares more about JH that about her own daughter. Well, it will probably all be put together next Friday. I can't wait!
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  • Avatar of RoverGuy

    RoverGuy

    [8]Mar 14, 2009
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    I think Ellis is starting to realize there is something about Weaver that is not quite right. Some of the looks he gave her during the question and answer session with John Henry, and once they found the girl, leads me to believe he is starting to suspect something.

    I am still waiting for Sarah and/or John to realize that Riley was from the future. I figure they will put two and two together soon, maybe even fins out who Jesse really is.

    The "I love you" from Cameron-as-Riley was a bit of a shocker, especially once we found out that the fake call was Johns plan all along. I wonder if he is starting to question Cameron motives/programming/etc.

    Dying to find out what is in the box from the deep sea platform. "We opened the box and it was Hell in there", or something to that effect.

    Can't wait for next week.

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    jjrrffkk

    [9]Mar 14, 2009
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    Some things I think I think....

    I think a lot of things are pointing to a hum-dinger of an episode next week. But I think John realizes that Cameron didn't do in his girlfriend. The defensive wounds and the load of skin gouging under her nails made him realize a human being did it. And he was apologizing to her, because he realized that she died because she knew him. I also wonder if John and Sarah are actually going to run into Jesse, as Jesse is viewed by Dekker. That will be very interesting if that happens.

    The future, according to this episode, will be stranger than we can imagine ("Queeg" driving the submarine). Terminators that work for the resistance. More than one. Perhaps a whole bunch. Either "future John" is a very busy man, or "future John" represents more than one human being. He can't be everywhere. Maybe "John Connor" is a uploadable software program that a bunch of the Terminators were "vaccinated" with, and they decide to help the Human Resistance....

    I found it amazing that Sarah told Cameron she was going to terminate her, but didn't because of John. And I was even more amazed that Cameron didn't terminate Sarah outright after that admission. Sarah is definitely an impediment to Cameron's programming to protect John. Nothing can get in the way of that. And now I am wondering whether Sarah's insistence of destroying all of the former Terminator body parts may harm Cameron's mission in the future. There are no replacement parts after the ones Sarah was destroying become no more.

    We also find out in this episode that the Terminators--whether Cameron or Weaver or even John Henry--are much more complex creatures that we thought previously. They do think like humans, and can engage in manipulation and subterfuge. And to lie, and mislead. And engage in the "omission of data" when it suits them. (Even "Queeg" was able to get the submarine to get to the Indian Ocean archipelago mission without revealing the exact details of what they were after (what is in that box?).)

    The teaser at the end of the show for next week shows that Jesse the Australian and Cameron meet each other. But we don't know if that is in the future or in the past. I guess we'll have to see. I hope that Cameron rips Jesse apart. That would be so cool, and cathartic. Jesse is portrayed in a completely unsympathetic matter. All the more probably because her character is going to get killed real soon.....(I think)

    I still think that Cameron's claim of putting an explosive in her head is bogus. She is doing that (and providing the bogus trigger to John) as a self-preserving, and manipulative act so that she can continue to do her job. Protecting John. It appears to give John the power over her existence. (Which no terminator will ever allow.) But that perception of John thinking he does have power over her would help to have him be more empathetic with Cameron, and her way of thinking/doing of things.

    There is also the foreshadowing of John talking with Dekker about Dekker's future. I wonder if John thinks that Dekker killed his girlfriend. Or thinks that someone that Dekker is affiliated with killed his girlfriend.

    I guess we'll have to see.

    I also suspect either next week or the week after that there is going to be the plot-thread "tie in" with the upcoming "Terminator: Salvation." That will be cool to be on the look-out for.

    This is a very good show, well plotted, and well written, with a great cast. I hope that it continues into a third season. It certainly is better than 24, and a lot less ludicrous.

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  • Avatar of arter666

    arter666

    [10]Mar 14, 2009
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    [QUOTE="jjrrffkk"]

    There is also the foreshadowing of John talking with Dekker about Dekker's future. I wonder if John thinks that Dekker killed his girlfriend. Or thinks that someone that Dekker is affiliated with killed his girlfriend.

    I hope you mean Derek as Tom Dekker plays John Connor in this series...... confused me that you were getting so metaphysical on us.....

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    imjessietr30

    [11]Mar 14, 2009
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    To be fair to Weaver, she had a point. Getting mad wasn't going to make JH reveal Savannah any quicker. They know he's capable of killing, so reacting badly might just make him bump off the kid. It was far more strategic to play the game. Besides, she was probably operating under the logic that JH was playing a game and could easily have killed Savannah if he wanted to. I also sincerely doubt JH is so sophisticated as to murder the kid AND play the game, knowing she's dead the entire time.

    What I want to know is whether she actually likes the kid, if a Terminator can. She's definitely loyal to her "children" (Savannah and John Henry), like a good mother would. She took a risk by hiring humans to work on JH, realizing that she lacks the ethical/emotional skills to do what is required. I honestly can't see her as anything but a member of past leader of this other faction thing. Why teach Baby Skynet morals? The only thing that makes sense is if this other faction realizes Skynet is stupid in its bent to destroy humanity.
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    BiniBeans

    [12]Mar 15, 2009
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    What I really hate about two-part episodes is having to wait an entire week until the next installment. Otherwise the episode was painful to watch in as much as we get to see so much anxiety, isolation, and uncertainty for all characters and especially for John. His future does look bleaker than ever. Good tv!
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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [13]Mar 15, 2009
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    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    I liked this episode. Not as much as last week's, but it was still very good. For me the highlight of the episode was when Sarah dropped the bomb about the "I love you" thing. John's gasp right after that was just brilliant. He lost control over himself for just a second and then snaped back into his old role as the unapproachable John Connor who hides his feelings. (btw. what exactly are his feelings towards Cameron? do you think he loves her? maybe he just can't figure it out) However, what really got me thinking was Cameron's phonecall. I really can't tell how much of that was an act and how much was the real Cameron, expressing herself. The same thing in the scene where John asks Cameron if she killed Riley. John: "I wanna believe you" Cam: "Believe me!". This "Believe me!" sounds like she is begging. Her voice sounds somehow odd. Well at least he stood up for her and believed her. (very much like in the end of Samson & Delilah, where he is the only one who trusts Cameron) One thing really annoyed me though: Why doesn't Ellison put 1+1 together and see that there is something wrong with Weaver. I mean he is an ex-FBI agent and in this episode it was clear that Weaver cares more about JH that about her own daughter. Well, it will probably all be put together next Friday. I can't wait!

    The "phone call" was John's plan, but just talking to Rilye's foster Dad. Talking to John was Cam's idea. It seems to me, especially after last weeks ep, she does indeed have very real deep emotional feelings for John. When she came to him earlier I don't think her motivation was to proclaim her innocence in Rilye's death but more to try to "comfort" him in his time of need. She said she was sorry for his loss. I think she thought (in her own way, totally ignorant of proper social ways) that hearing Riley's voice would comfort him (Why else keep imitating Riley's voice when Foster Dad couldn't hear it?). The first thing she said was "I thought you'd like to hear my (Riley's) voice" The "I love you" part, was in my opinion, an "opportunity" for her to express her real feelings toward him in a way she thought would be "safe". I think this is something she has been wanting to express for some time but afraid to, as she new it would probably just serve to "alienate" him from her. When she did say it, there seemed to be a bit of hesitation there like she was building up the courage to say it. When he was walking away from her after the meeting with Foster Dad she said "you shouldn't be alone" with a bit of emotion in her voice like she was very concerned for him in his present mental state.

    How does John feel toward her? well like you said he likes to hide his feelings, but there is plenty of evidence that deep down the feeling may be mutual. He always comes to her defence when she is accused of something, even lies to protect her. Something else to consider is that no matter how "human" she may become, the fact is that she is a Cyborg and always will be. If he does have, and I think he might, deep down real love for her, I'm sure it would be hard for him to accept, causing him to try to repress it as best he can. Sarah can see this I think better than he can (his feelings toward Cameron) and is probably at least 50% of the reason she looks at her with total contempt and considers her a threat to him.

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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [14]Mar 15, 2009
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    As far as Ellison's reactions to Weaver, I'm sure he is amazed at her attitude, but simply sees her as a total "cold hearted, super ambitious" career woman that puts even her own daughter behind her career. There are a lot of people just like her in the real, world so it wouldn't cause any suspicion to anything beyond that.

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    jjrrffkk

    [15]Mar 15, 2009
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    Sorry, my bad. I meant Derek. My brain was getting "too metaphysical" even for its own byzantine thought processes. LOL
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    m00nshadow

    [16]Mar 15, 2009
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    Another slow episode. Well, there's nothing to be done about the choices that have been made. Filming is over for the season. I am wondering about the scene with Cameron and the pigeon, where she says, "Goodbye bird. There's a 51% chance I wouldn't have killed you." Does she mean Riley, referring to the shed scene last week? Or, is this in fact the bird from the fireplace? She took a pigeon outside of the house, and appeared to kill it, and then John found a dead bird that was not a pigeon in the yard.

    I thought Cameron believed John would want to hear Riley tell him she loved him. I don't think Sarah was referring to Cameron or threatening to terminate her. She meant, she'd have executed Riley without a trace of remorse if Cameron or Derek didn't do it. Now we know Derek would never have done any such thing, from his reaction to Jesse. That Sarah doesn't realize that illustrates how far out of touch with human emotions she has become.
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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [17]Mar 15, 2009
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    Sahlinrob wrote:

    The "phone call" was John's plan, but just talking to Rilye's foster Dad. Talking to John was Cam's idea. It seems to me, especially after last weeks ep, she does indeed have very real deep emotional feelings for John. When she came to him earlier I don't think her motivation was to proclaim her innocence in Rilye's death but more to try to "comfort" him in his time of need. She said she was sorry for his loss. I think she thought (in her own way, totally ignorant of proper social ways) that hearing Riley's voice would comfort him (Why else keep imitating Riley's voice when Foster Dad couldn't hear it?). The first thing she said was "I thought you'd like to hear my (Riley's) voice" The "I love you" part, was in my opinion, an "opportunity" for her to express her real feelings toward him in a way she thought would be "safe". I think this is something she has been wanting to express for some time but afraid to, as she new it would probably just serve to "alienate" him from her. When she did say it, there seemed to be a bit of hesitation there like she was building up the courage to say it. When he was walking away from her after the meeting with Foster Dad she said "you shouldn't be alone" with a bit of emotion in her voice like she was very concerned for him in his present mental state.

    How does John feel toward her? well like you said he likes to hide his feelings, but there is plenty of evidence that deep down the feeling may be mutual. He always comes to her defence when she is accused of something, even lies to protect her. Something else to consider is that no matter how "human" she may become, the fact is that she is a Cyborg and always will be. If he does have, and I think he might, deep down real love for her, I'm sure it would be hard for him to accept, causing him to try to repress it as best he can. Sarah can see this I think better than he can (his feelings toward Cameron) and is probably at least 50% of the reason she looks at her with total contempt and considers her a threat to him.

    I'd love if the writers would take the story in that direction, but I think they won't. I can definitely see your point, but something else just came into my mind as I read your post:

    By what standards does Cameron measure her relationships? Maybe she thinks she loves John, just because he is the only person she really cares about and has a relationship with and, let's face it, doesn't want to kill her. He is her only friend and maybe she interprets these feelings wrong (as love). I mean mentally she is about 10 years old. Moreover, John is the only one she had secrets with (the spare parts).

    And John... Well, I don't know^^ Cameron is (besides maybe Dereck) his only friend who knows about J-Day and what's going to happen. He can talk with her and have secrets with her (from Sarah). He is 17 and needs someone besides his mother, because at that age mothers suck =). Cameron can give him advice because she is the only one who really knows the future John Connor (and he constantly asks her what he would do). Therefore, they are very close. He probably is also sexually attracted to her, but he knows that she is a machine and that they could never be together (He still hasn't figured out that Cameron is capable of having feelings an emotions). In addition to that, he knows that she is a very dangerous killing machine that has no remorse (and might even kill him because of her glitch). I'm not saying all this is true, but it's another possibility. We'll have to see what direction the writers went.

    I'd just like to lock these two in a room for one episode so they could talk about everything. I would LOVE to hear that =)

    Edited on 03/15/2009 2:50pm
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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [18]Mar 15, 2009
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    m00nshadow wrote:
    Another slow episode. Well, there's nothing to be done about the choices that have been made. Filming is over for the season.

    I'm just gonna quote roxybisquaint from this blog (http://roxybisquaint.livejournal.com/54214.html): "It's amazing how much character depth they've built in such a short time on this show. And this is just Sarah and it's not even complete. The problem, I think, is that people tend to approach TSCC as primarily an action show (it's the one drawback of having Terminator in the title) when really it's a character-driven sci-fi drama with action."

    I tend to enjoy these slow, character-building episodes (except the 3 about Sarah, because I somehow don't like the character). Personally I find it extremely interesting to see an AI evolve and how it learns things (primarily Cameron because it's subtle, but also John Henry). All this AI stuff just facinates me and I can understand if some people find it boring. Btw: the Numb3rs episode "First Law" from last week was also about AI and I thought it was awesome =)

    m00nshadow wrote:
    I am wondering about the scene with Cameron and the pigeon, where she says, "Goodbye bird. There's a 51% chance I wouldn't have killed you." Does she mean Riley, referring to the shed scene last week? Or, is this in fact the bird from the fireplace? She took a pigeon outside of the house, and appeared to kill it, and then John found a dead bird that was not a pigeon in the yard.

    No, she definitely killed the pigeon that was in the fireplace. The pigeon in this episode is just a different one. However, I wondered how she got to exactly 51%. I mean 50%, well ok that is just some saying, but 51?! I think it's a clue that her free will is stronger than her programming, but I have to think about that some more.

    m00nshadow wrote:
    I don't think Sarah was referring to Cameron or threatening to terminate her. She meant, she'd have executed Riley without a trace of remorse if Cameron or Derek didn't do it. Now we know Derek would never have done any such thing, from his reaction to Jesse. That Sarah doesn't realize that illustrates how far out of touch with human emotions she has become.

    What scene are you talking about? The one between Cameron and Sarah, where Sarah is burning the spare parts? Because they definitely talked about Cameron there. *Cameron comes in* Sarah: "I have planned on waiting for YOU with Derecks sniper rifle [...]". When I saw that scene, I wondered if the writers have ever seen a thermite reaction. There is NO way that Sarah would be able to stand next to that and just throw in some parts like some wood into a campfire. It burns at over 2500°C and molten iron splashes in every direction. I mean look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

    Edited on 03/15/2009 2:50pm
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    rayray_25

    [19]Mar 15, 2009
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    imjessietr30 wrote:
    To be fair to Weaver, she had a point. Getting mad wasn't going to make JH reveal Savannah any quicker. They know he's capable of killing, so reacting badly might just make him bump off the kid. It was far more strategic to play the game. Besides, she was probably operating under the logic that JH was playing a game and could easily have killed Savannah if he wanted to. I also sincerely doubt JH is so sophisticated as to murder the kid AND play the game, knowing she's dead the entire time. What I want to know is whether she actually likes the kid, if a Terminator can. She's definitely loyal to her "children" (Savannah and John Henry), like a good mother would. She took a risk by hiring humans to work on JH, realizing that she lacks the ethical/emotional skills to do what is required. I honestly can't see her as anything but a member of past leader of this other faction thing. Why teach Baby Skynet morals? The only thing that makes sense is if this other faction realizes Skynet is stupid in its bent to destroy humanity.

    Okay...I guess I'm just going to go ahead and have to appoint myself as the official cynic of the T:TSCC board.

    First of all, have you taken into account Weaver's killing of the actual Weaver? There was an earlier episode (no I can't remember the name) where another terminator was supposed to assassinate the governor of CA, and because he got beamed back too early, he had to take steps to ensure that the building actually got built. So....maybe Weaver didn't come back exactly when it was supposed to and had to take the REAL Weaver's place as far as development of the technology that becomes Skynet? Just a theory.

    This next one is completely unrelated to you imjessietr30, but someone earlier said that jessied was a completely unsympathetic character. I take issue with that. Future John Connor completely avoids other humans. We know this from Jessie saying it, and we know from Cameron saying something along the lines of all humans are a threat to John. Because he loves humanity so much, their pain and suffering affects him enormously, leaving him vulnerable. The only way for John to be safe is to not associate at all with other people. I'm guessing this is why Jessie is on her mission, because future John only listens to Cameron. Also, I don't think John is in league with a "secret" subset of Terminators who want to live in peace. Please provide any evidence (from the series ONLY) that would suggest I'm wrong.

    One last thing. Cameron is NOT human. She is, admittedly, a very attractive robot(or cyborg, metal, whatever). I don't think that Cameron has any "feelings" whatsoever for John. I think she is graphically aware of the future and how it plays out, and that whatever orders future John gave her to carry out she will carry out through hell or high water. If that means psychological manipulation of humans (present John) included, then so be it. Bear in mind that if her purpose isn't to fight other Terminators, it is probably to infiltrate. This means that she is probably more studious of human behavior than other models.

    So to review...Weaver is NOT part of a secret Terminator cabal that includes future John, and Cameron does NOT have feelings for John. Put that in your pipes and smoke it, John/Cameron Shippers.

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    BoogerHeadRat

    [20]Mar 16, 2009
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    m00nshadow wrote:
    Another slow episode. Well, there's nothing to be done about the choices that have been made. Filming is over for the season. I am wondering about the scene with Cameron and the pigeon, where she says, "Goodbye bird. There's a 51% chance I wouldn't have killed you." Does she mean Riley, referring to the shed scene last week? Or, is this in fact the bird from the fireplace? She took a pigeon outside of the house, and appeared to kill it, and then John found a dead bird that was not a pigeon in the yard. I thought Cameron believed John would want to hear Riley tell him she loved him. I don't think Sarah was referring to Cameron or threatening to terminate her. She meant, she'd have executed Riley without a trace of remorse if Cameron or Derek didn't do it. Now we know Derek would never have done any such thing, from his reaction to Jesse. That Sarah doesn't realize that illustrates how far out of touch with human emotions she has become.
    That's an interesting point- I hadn't really noticed that the dead bird on the ground wasn't the same pigeon that Cameron had killed earlier. That bit about the 51% chance of not killing her does seem to be a metaphor for Cameron's potentially deadly relationship to Riley. Does John see himself (or someone he loves) in the lifeless bird lying on the ground? After listening to the conversation between Sarah and Cameron several times it does appear that Sarah says, "I had planned on waiting for you with Derek's sniper rifle" so I think she actually was reffering about terminating Cameron. Sarah does feel personally threatened by Cameron and also in competition for John's love but seems mostly worried about Cameron keeping spare parts around that might help start the comming Armageddon. I think John is beginning to put together that Riley wasn't just another trouble kid from school. If he hasn't already figured out that she was part of some plot from the future he soon will, which will also have a direct bearing on the way he relates to Cameron. Things definitely seem to be coming to a head soon.
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