Official Episode Discussion: Today Is the Day (1)

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    BoogerHeadRat

    [21]Mar 16, 2009
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    Sahlinrob wrote:

    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    I liked this episode. Not as much as last week's, but it was still very good. For me the highlight of the episode was when Sarah dropped the bomb about the "I love you" thing. John's gasp right after that was just brilliant. He lost control over himself for just a second and then snaped back into his old role as the unapproachable John Connor who hides his feelings. (btw. what exactly are his feelings towards Cameron? do you think he loves her? maybe he just can't figure it out) However, what really got me thinking was Cameron's phonecall. I really can't tell how much of that was an act and how much was the real Cameron, expressing herself. The same thing in the scene where John asks Cameron if she killed Riley. John: "I wanna believe you" Cam: "Believe me!". This "Believe me!" sounds like she is begging. Her voice sounds somehow odd. Well at least he stood up for her and believed her. (very much like in the end of Samson & Delilah, where he is the only one who trusts Cameron) One thing really annoyed me though: Why doesn't Ellison put 1+1 together and see that there is something wrong with Weaver. I mean he is an ex-FBI agent and in this episode it was clear that Weaver cares more about JH that about her own daughter. Well, it will probably all be put together next Friday. I can't wait!

    The "phone call" was John's plan, but just talking to Rilye's foster Dad. Talking to John was Cam's idea. It seems to me, especially after last weeks ep, she does indeed have very real deep emotional feelings for John. When she came to him earlier I don't think her motivation was to proclaim her innocence in Rilye's death but more to try to "comfort" him in his time of need. She said she was sorry for his loss. I think she thought (in her own way, totally ignorant of proper social ways) that hearing Riley's voice would comfort him (Why else keep imitating Riley's voice when Foster Dad couldn't hear it?). The first thing she said was "I thought you'd like to hear my (Riley's) voice" The "I love you" part, was in my opinion, an "opportunity" for her to express her real feelings toward him in a way she thought would be "safe". I think this is something she has been wanting to express for some time but afraid to, as she new it would probably just serve to "alienate" him from her. When she did say it, there seemed to be a bit of hesitation there like she was building up the courage to say it. When he was walking away from her after the meeting with Foster Dad she said "you shouldn't be alone" with a bit of emotion in her voice like she was very concerned for him in his present mental state.

    How does John feel toward her? well like you said he likes to hide his feelings, but there is plenty of evidence that deep down the feeling may be mutual. He always comes to her defence when she is accused of something, even lies to protect her. Something else to consider is that no matter how "human" she may become, the fact is that she is a Cyborg and always will be. If he does have, and I think he might, deep down real love for her, I'm sure it would be hard for him to accept, causing him to try to repress it as best he can. Sarah can see this I think better than he can (his feelings toward Cameron) and is probably at least 50% of the reason she looks at her with total contempt and considers her a threat to him.

    Some insightful comments by sNaKeBiT and Sahlinrob- at first I just thought Cameron was being particularly inept in dealing with humans when she got on the phone with John but the more I look at it it does seem like she is using the moment to express here true feelings towards John. I remember the obvious longing in Cameron's eyes as she watched John and Riley at the very beginning of "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today". I think too that when Riley tells Cameron,"Get it through your head, you're just John's sister." she's picking up on Cameron's suppressed love for John.

    As far as Cameron always being a Cyborg? Well I have high hopes of the Good Fairy interceding and turning Cameron into a 'real live girl'. Then again who's to say that John and Cameron won't end up settling down together and raising some mechanical kids? World War II didn't end because every last Nazi and Japanese fascist was hunted down and killed but by the slow democratization of the former enemies. Could a similar scenario be possible with machines in the future?

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  • Avatar of BoogerHeadRat

    BoogerHeadRat

    [22]Mar 16, 2009
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    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    I tend to enjoy these slow, character-building episodes (except the 3 about Sarah, because I somehow don't like the character). Personally I find it extremely interesting to see an AI evolve and how it learns things (primarily Cameron because it's subtle, but also John Henry). All this AI stuff just facinates me and I can understand if some people find it boring. Btw: the Numb3rs episode "First Law" from last week was also about AI and I thought it was awesome =)

    AI is extremely interesting! Probably because it is no longer just the stuff of science fiction. While there are at present numerous initiatives for creating Artificial Intelligence at a number of universities and private business think tanks the ethical side of such creation is debated at forums like these. Thinking killer robots were something limited to scifi series I was surprised to find out that South Korea and Israel both deploy armed robot boarder guards that make their own decisions as when to attack. Check out this article from the Herald Trib to see how robotic soldiers might be more humane in their treatment of unarmed civilians that their human counterparts.

    < http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/25/healthscience/25robots.php >

    Thanks for the heads-up on that Numb3rs episode. I haven't watched the show before but I'll check out this one. I guess any true 'Calvinist' knows which "First Law" they mean.

    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    When I saw that scene, I wondered if the writers have ever seen a thermite reaction. There is NO way that Sarah would be able to stand next to that and just throw in some parts like some wood into a campfire. It burns at over 2500°C and molten iron splashes in every direction. I mean look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

    Right on sNaKeBiT! Thanks for mentioning that. I tried making some thermite in highschool but it didn't work (I think the aluminum wasn't ground finely enough. Good thing! I saw a demonstration at AlliedChem and was impressed. In TSCC it always looks as if they're going start toasting marshmellows over the melting terminator parts.

    I also love the way they just sprinkle a few grains of the stuff over the skeletons like they're sprinkling some rocksalt to melt some snow in front of their door.

    Edited on 03/16/2009 3:21pm
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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [23]Mar 16, 2009
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    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:

    No, she definitely killed the pigeon that was in the fireplace. The pigeon in this episode is just a different one. However, I wondered how she got to exactly 51%. I mean 50%, well ok that is just some saying, but 51?! I think it's a clue that her free will is stronger than her programming, but I have to think about that some more.

    m00nshadow wrote:
    I don't think Sarah was referring to Cameron or threatening to terminate her. She meant, she'd have executed Riley without a trace of remorse if Cameron or Derek didn't do it. Now we know Derek would never have done any such thing, from his reaction to Jesse. That Sarah doesn't realize that illustrates how far out of touch with human emotions she has become.

    What scene are you talking about? The one between Cameron and Sarah, where Sarah is burning the spare parts? Because they definitely talked about Cameron there. *Cameron comes in* Sarah: "I have planned on waiting for YOU with Derecks sniper rifle [...]". When I saw that scene, I wondered if the writers have ever seen a thermite reaction. There is NO way that Sarah would be able to stand next to that and just throw in some parts like some wood into a campfire. It burns at over 2500°C and molten iron splashes in every direction. I mean look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

    Good point on Cameron's free will. She was clearly in conflict when confronting Riley over how best to protect John. I miheard Sarah's line in the shed, as "you or Derek's sniper riflt". You're right. Also about the thermite. Which is weird, because they made that point earlier when Sarah's ex watched Cam burn Vic's endoskeleton. ;(

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    ebony_kunoichi

    [24]Mar 16, 2009
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    I am dying to know what was in that case. I wanna know!! Why would John send the sub to pick up anything from a terminator unless there was some kind of agreement with the terminators. I want jessie dead too, I think something is up with her.

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    Bloodbath_87

    [25]Mar 16, 2009
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    I loved it when Cameron was talking to the bird.

    "Bye bird. There was only a x% chance that I was going to kill you."
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    ilee1990

    [26]Mar 16, 2009
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    rayray_25 wrote:

    imjessietr30 wrote:
    To be fair to Weaver, she had a point. Getting mad wasn't going to make JH reveal Savannah any quicker. They know he's capable of killing, so reacting badly might just make him bump off the kid. It was far more strategic to play the game. Besides, she was probably operating under the logic that JH was playing a game and could easily have killed Savannah if he wanted to. I also sincerely doubt JH is so sophisticated as to murder the kid AND play the game, knowing she's dead the entire time. What I want to know is whether she actually likes the kid, if a Terminator can. She's definitely loyal to her "children" (Savannah and John Henry), like a good mother would. She took a risk by hiring humans to work on JH, realizing that she lacks the ethical/emotional skills to do what is required. I honestly can't see her as anything but a member of past leader of this other faction thing. Why teach Baby Skynet morals? The only thing that makes sense is if this other faction realizes Skynet is stupid in its bent to destroy humanity.

    Okay...I guess I'm just going to go ahead and have to appoint myself as the official cynic of the T:TSCC board.

    First of all, have you taken into account Weaver's killing of the actual Weaver? There was an earlier episode (no I can't remember the name) where another terminator was supposed to assassinate the governor of CA, and because he got beamed back too early, he had to take steps to ensure that the building actually got built. So....maybe Weaver didn't come back exactly when it was supposed to and had to take the REAL Weaver's place as far as development of the technology that becomes Skynet? Just a theory.

    This next one is completely unrelated to you imjessietr30, but someone earlier said that jessied was a completely unsympathetic character. I take issue with that. Future John Connor completely avoids other humans. We know this from Jessie saying it, and we know from Cameron saying something along the lines of all humans are a threat to John. Because he loves humanity so much, their pain and suffering affects him enormously, leaving him vulnerable. The only way for John to be safe is to not associate at all with other people. I'm guessing this is why Jessie is on her mission, because future John only listens to Cameron. Also, I don't think John is in league with a "secret" subset of Terminators who want to live in peace. Please provide any evidence (from the series ONLY) that would suggest I'm wrong.

    One last thing. Cameron is NOT human. She is, admittedly, a very attractive robot(or cyborg, metal, whatever). I don't think that Cameron has any "feelings" whatsoever for John. I think she is graphically aware of the future and how it plays out, and that whatever orders future John gave her to carry out she will carry out through hell or high water. If that means psychological manipulation of humans (present John) included, then so be it. Bear in mind that if her purpose isn't to fight other Terminators, it is probably to infiltrate. This means that she is probably more studious of human behavior than other models.

    So to review...Weaver is NOT part of a secret Terminator cabal that includes future John, and Cameron does NOT have feelings for John. Put that in your pipes and smoke it, John/Cameron Shippers.

    Finally-- the voice of reason. If John ever gets romantically involved with Cameron he should invest in a psychiatrist and some strong meds. She's a robot! This whole thing with the possibility of her having human feelings would seriously jump the shark. She's a freakin' blow up doll at best.

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    m00nshadow

    [27]Mar 17, 2009
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    rayray, that episode is "Self-Made Man". Blow up doll? John is attached to Cameron emotionally. Sarah knows that; it's why she didn't try to destroy Cameron after Riley's death. Of course, people become attached to their cars, too, but this is something more. John handed Cameron a gun when he didn't know if she would shoot him with it.
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    ebony_kunoichi

    [28]Mar 17, 2009
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    yes john is falling for her. I'm not saying is romantic love, but for sure love. John is now really alone without reily. He has the whole world on his shoulders and under stress. He can talk to cameron and she protects him. As a person in this situation reliance can be mistaken for love.

    If you guys have seen the old terminator movies, in the second one John Connor had a serious attachment to the arnold s. terminator and was upset that they had to terminate him.

    Edited on 03/17/2009 12:37pm
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  • Avatar of sNaKeBiTe688

    sNaKeBiTe688

    [29]Mar 18, 2009
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    ilee1990 wrote:
    rayray_25 wrote:

    imjessietr30 wrote:
    To be fair to Weaver, she had a point. Getting mad wasn't going to make JH reveal Savannah any quicker. They know he's capable of killing, so reacting badly might just make him bump off the kid. It was far more strategic to play the game. Besides, she was probably operating under the logic that JH was playing a game and could easily have killed Savannah if he wanted to. I also sincerely doubt JH is so sophisticated as to murder the kid AND play the game, knowing she's dead the entire time. What I want to know is whether she actually likes the kid, if a Terminator can. She's definitely loyal to her "children" (Savannah and John Henry), like a good mother would. She took a risk by hiring humans to work on JH, realizing that she lacks the ethical/emotional skills to do what is required. I honestly can't see her as anything but a member of past leader of this other faction thing. Why teach Baby Skynet morals? The only thing that makes sense is if this other faction realizes Skynet is stupid in its bent to destroy humanity.

    Okay...I guess I'm just going to go ahead and have to appoint myself as the official cynic of the T:TSCC board.

    First of all, have you taken into account Weaver's killing of the actual Weaver? There was an earlier episode (no I can't remember the name) where another terminator was supposed to assassinate the governor of CA, and because he got beamed back too early, he had to take steps to ensure that the building actually got built. So....maybe Weaver didn't come back exactly when it was supposed to and had to take the REAL Weaver's place as far as development of the technology that becomes Skynet? Just a theory.

    This next one is completely unrelated to you imjessietr30, but someone earlier said that jessied was a completely unsympathetic character. I take issue with that. Future John Connor completely avoids other humans. We know this from Jessie saying it, and we know from Cameron saying something along the lines of all humans are a threat to John. Because he loves humanity so much, their pain and suffering affects him enormously, leaving him vulnerable. The only way for John to be safe is to not associate at all with other people. I'm guessing this is why Jessie is on her mission, because future John only listens to Cameron. Also, I don't think John is in league with a "secret" subset of Terminators who want to live in peace. Please provide any evidence (from the series ONLY) that would suggest I'm wrong.

    One last thing. Cameron is NOT human. She is, admittedly, a very attractive robot(or cyborg, metal, whatever). I don't think that Cameron has any "feelings" whatsoever for John. I think she is graphically aware of the future and how it plays out, and that whatever orders future John gave her to carry out she will carry out through hell or high water. If that means psychological manipulation of humans (present John) included, then so be it. Bear in mind that if her purpose isn't to fight other Terminators, it is probably to infiltrate. This means that she is probably more studious of human behavior than other models.

    So to review...Weaver is NOT part of a secret Terminator cabal that includes future John, and Cameron does NOT have feelings for John. Put that in your pipes and smoke it, John/Cameron Shippers.

    Finally-- the voice of reason. If John ever gets romantically involved with Cameron he should invest in a psychiatrist and some strong meds. She's a robot! This whole thing with the possibility of her having human feelings would seriously jump the shark. She's a freakin' blow up doll at best.

    Yeah, what SciFi show would that be where robots could develop human emotions and feelings, to eventually become the "better" humans. Outrageous! (Watch out: sarcasm...)

    What exactly are human feelings and emotions? What is love? From a scientific point of view, it is nothing but chemicals and their effect on the brain. So why shouldn't robots have something similar to that? In fact, why shouldn't it be possible to create a program that does all that? Basically, it is just a reaction to a certain event. Somebody punches you in the face, you will probably not like him very much. Somebody you trust betrays you so you feel hurt and vulnerable. With such an advanced Technology like Skynet, all that should be possible.

    If you look at all this from a philosophical point of view... well, that's a whole different story...

    Btw: From an interview with Summer Glau: "Does Cameron really love John? One of the most jarring moments in the show was during the season premiere, where Glau's Terminator, Cameron, said she loves John Connor. Was she just trying to avoid being killed? Or did she mean it, sort of? Glau surprised me, by saying that "Cameron's deep love for John is because he is her whole reason for existing... I think that is love, and I think she would do anything for him, and in her reality, I think that's what love is for her." She added that she's not sure where Friedman is going with the character, but she always plays it as if she does feel something for John." (http://io9.com/5145575/summer-glau-explains-the-nature-of-robot-love)

    I'd like to close with another quote: Sarah's inner monolog from the episode "The Demon Hand" (probably my favourite scene)

    "Science now performs miracles like the Gods of old. Creating life from blood cells or bacteria or a spark of metal. But they're perfect creatures and in that way they couldn't be less human. There are things machines will never do. They cannot possess faith, they cannot commune with God. They cannot appreciate beauty, they cannot create art. If they ever learn these things, they wont have to destroy us - they'll be us."

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  • Avatar of rayray_25

    rayray_25

    [30]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 11/01/03
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    sNaKeBiTe688 wrote:
    ilee1990 wrote:
    rayray_25 wrote:

    imjessietr30 wrote:
    To be fair to Weaver, she had a point. Getting mad wasn't going to make JH reveal Savannah any quicker. They know he's capable of killing, so reacting badly might just make him bump off the kid. It was far more strategic to play the game. Besides, she was probably operating under the logic that JH was playing a game and could easily have killed Savannah if he wanted to. I also sincerely doubt JH is so sophisticated as to murder the kid AND play the game, knowing she's dead the entire time. What I want to know is whether she actually likes the kid, if a Terminator can. She's definitely loyal to her "children" (Savannah and John Henry), like a good mother would. She took a risk by hiring humans to work on JH, realizing that she lacks the ethical/emotional skills to do what is required. I honestly can't see her as anything but a member of past leader of this other faction thing. Why teach Baby Skynet morals? The only thing that makes sense is if this other faction realizes Skynet is stupid in its bent to destroy humanity.

    Okay...I guess I'm just going to go ahead and have to appoint myself as the official cynic of the T:TSCC board.

    First of all, have you taken into account Weaver's killing of the actual Weaver? There was an earlier episode (no I can't remember the name) where another terminator was supposed to assassinate the governor of CA, and because he got beamed back too early, he had to take steps to ensure that the building actually got built. So....maybe Weaver didn't come back exactly when it was supposed to and had to take the REAL Weaver's place as far as development of the technology that becomes Skynet? Just a theory.

    This next one is completely unrelated to you imjessietr30, but someone earlier said that jessied was a completely unsympathetic character. I take issue with that. Future John Connor completely avoids other humans. We know this from Jessie saying it, and we know from Cameron saying something along the lines of all humans are a threat to John. Because he loves humanity so much, their pain and suffering affects him enormously, leaving him vulnerable. The only way for John to be safe is to not associate at all with other people. I'm guessing this is why Jessie is on her mission, because future John only listens to Cameron. Also, I don't think John is in league with a "secret" subset of Terminators who want to live in peace. Please provide any evidence (from the series ONLY) that would suggest I'm wrong.

    One last thing. Cameron is NOT human. She is, admittedly, a very attractive robot(or cyborg, metal, whatever). I don't think that Cameron has any "feelings" whatsoever for John. I think she is graphically aware of the future and how it plays out, and that whatever orders future John gave her to carry out she will carry out through hell or high water. If that means psychological manipulation of humans (present John) included, then so be it. Bear in mind that if her purpose isn't to fight other Terminators, it is probably to infiltrate. This means that she is probably more studious of human behavior than other models.

    So to review...Weaver is NOT part of a secret Terminator cabal that includes future John, and Cameron does NOT have feelings for John. Put that in your pipes and smoke it, John/Cameron Shippers.

    Finally-- the voice of reason. If John ever gets romantically involved with Cameron he should invest in a psychiatrist and some strong meds. She's a robot! This whole thing with the possibility of her having human feelings would seriously jump the shark. She's a freakin' blow up doll at best.

    Yeah, what SciFi show would that be where robots could develop human emotions and feelings, to eventually become the "better" humans. Outrageous! (Watch out: sarcasm...)

    What exactly are human feelings and emotions? What is love? From a scientific point of view, it is nothing but chemicals and their effect on the brain. So why shouldn't robots have something similar to that? In fact, why shouldn't it be possible to create a program that does all that? Basically, it is just a reaction to a certain event. Somebody punches you in the face, you will probably not like him very much. Somebody you trust betrays you so you feel hurt and vulnerable. With such an advanced Technology like Skynet, all that should be possible.

    If you look at all this from a philosophical point of view... well, that's a whole different story...

    Btw: From an interview with Summer Glau: "Does Cameron really love John? One of the most jarring moments in the show was during the season premiere, where Glau's Terminator, Cameron, said she loves John Connor. Was she just trying to avoid being killed? Or did she mean it, sort of? Glau surprised me, by saying that "Cameron's deep love for John is because he is her whole reason for existing... I think that is love, and I think she would do anything for him, and in her reality, I think that's what love is for her." She added that she's not sure where Friedman is going with the character, but she always plays it as if she does feel something for John." (http://io9.com/5145575/summer-glau-explains-the-nature-of-robot-love)

    I'd like to close with another quote: Sarah's inner monolog from the episode "The Demon Hand" (probably my favourite scene)

    "Science now performs miracles like the Gods of old. Creating life from blood cells or bacteria or a spark of metal. But they're perfect creatures and in that way they couldn't be less human. There are things machines will never do. They cannot possess faith, they cannot commune with God. They cannot appreciate beauty, they cannot create art. If they ever learn these things, they wont have to destroy us - they'll be us."

    Yeah, sure. OF COURSE Cameron behaves as if she may have feelings for John. That is my entire point. Now feel free to disagree with me (after all, what are these message boards for? lol) but as I said earlier, I absolutely agree that John has feelings for Cameron. (Great call to whoever brought up John's attachment to Ah-nold in the movie) But my point is, if Cameron is NOT designed to fight other Terminators, which kind of suggests that other models ARE designed to be able to engage in combat with each other with minimal damage, then WHAT is she designed for?

    My best guess, based on "Allison from Palmdale", is that she is designed for infiltration. That being the case, it makes sense that she would be more aware and studious of human interactions and feelings. So of course she acts like she has feelings for John...it aids her in completing her mission.

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    Falcondude123

    [31]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 09/24/06
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    I think that box must have something to do with time-travel, a critical component or whatever. How else might Jesse ever find out about time-travel and do a secret, rogue operation all on her own? It might also explain why things will get dicey on the sub when they open it- who knows what terminators or other strange things could come out of a time portal?

    About the love issue:

    It is a choice, not a program. An ability, not a simple feeling. A decision, not a coded behavioral pattern. It requires self-will, free-agency, the ability to think and act for oneself. A computer cannot do that. We can make the most advanced A.I. on the planet, and it will still only do what we tell it to. If you line up the circumstances a certain way, the A.I. will always react the same. Thus, it has some knowledge and processing power, but no self-will. No TRUE intelligence of it's own.
    Even if you could program the computer to have some immitation of true intelligence, some randomnization factor in it's coded response mainframe, it would still just act that way because you told it to do so. You told it to imitate true intelligence, thus it was YOUR decision, not it's own.
    I give no credit to a computer for any imitation of "love" it exhibits, because that imitation was the choice of the programmer, not the program.
    Until some A.I. starts to magically make it's own decisions when it shouldn't be, until it starts to break the rules and think for itself WITHOUT BEING PROGRAMMED TO, I give it no such credit.
    Can Cameron imitate love? Sure. Can she actually love? I don't think so.
    It depends on if she was programmed to be the way she is or if she has somehow broken all the rules and become a TRUE, self-willed intelligence.
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    suprememango

    [32]Mar 18, 2009
    • member since: 11/22/08
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    some very thought provoking stuff. which is no surprise seeing that TSCC is one thought provoking show. Just to comment on whether Cameron loves John. I agree that her affection for him stems from the fact that he is her raison d'etre - reason for being. like those love songs "you are all the world to me", it is literally like that for Cameron. I'm sure Future John didn't program her to develop an attachment to his younger self. so I think she has exceeded her programming in that respect. Remember the scene when the two of them are lying in bed together. Now that was pretty intimate. No, Cameron can't truly love John. she is a machine at the end of the day. So what she has is her understanding of what that means and however best she can imitate it. John, on the other hand, does love Cameron, which is both a romantic love and a friendship bond as well. Kind of messed up. I do wonder if the producers will have them get even closer. That might be a bit weird. we'll see. and oh yeah, jesse is gonna get smoked soon. She's beautiful but I'm a bit bored with her. I think she's going to try to take out Cameron herself and then she will get smoked. PS - I know what's in the box. another, smaller box LOL
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    Sahlinrob

    [33]Mar 19, 2009
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    [ Until some A.I. starts to magically make it's own decisions when it shouldn't be, until it starts to break the rules and think for itself WITHOUT BEING PROGRAMMED TO, I give it no such credit. Can Cameron imitate love? Sure. Can she actually love? I don't think so. It depends on if she was programmed to be the way she is or if she has somehow broken all the rules and become a TRUE, self-willed intelligence.[/QUOTE]

    In the real world and todays technology this would be 100% correct, however this is science FICTION, Like you said, it all depends on the ability of an AI to make decisions beyond it's original programing, break the rules, free will, or as C.W. says "cross against the light". Who programed Skynet to attack the human race? nobody, it made that decision on it's own...free will. It seems to me that this is one of the main points of this series (the ability for an A.I. to grow beyond it"s original programing). Is it not the whole plan of C.W. to develop an A.I. that can do this? " (cross against the light) in the form of J.H. Actually, to give credit where credit is due, Andy Goode, (the "Turk" that she paid someone to steal). If "free will" is present in Skynet, which is obviously true, as it did in fact decide on it's own to attack the human race, then there is no real reason that Cameron would not be able to do this as well, have self awareness and free will, hence...real emotions and feelings of her own. Did she not decide not to "terminate" John when her HUD display showed "terminate" in the season opener? I really can't see why this is such a "stumbling block" to some people. Time travel is impossible (back in time, forward in time might be possible) and travel at or beyond light speed (according to Einstein's theory's) is impossible, yet nobody seems to have a problem with it in the realm of science fiction. So what's the big deal with it?....just don't understand.

    Edited on 03/19/2009 1:47am
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  • Avatar of Todd_Gray

    Todd_Gray

    [34]Mar 20, 2009
    • member since: 05/05/06
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 456

    Are you friggin' kidding me?! I missed an episode last week because of that friggin' ACC Basketball Tournament?!

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [35]Mar 20, 2009
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 45
    • rank: Swizzle-Bird
    • posts: 11,011
    Todd_Gray wrote:

    Are you friggin' kidding me?! I missed an episode last week because of that friggin' ACC Basketball Tournament?!

    foxondemand foxes official video site just watch it there no big deal. As to the episode it was good some back story on Jessie nice can't wait to see what's in the box and the aftermath of Riley's death. Or I guess I should say the beginning since we don't know what the parties will do about it and I'm sensing that Johns uncle senses something amiss with Jessie and this whole affair can't wait to see if and how it comes out.

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  • Avatar of Todd_Gray

    Todd_Gray

    [36]Mar 20, 2009
    • member since: 05/05/06
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 456
    danharr wrote:
    Todd_Gray wrote:

    Are you friggin' kidding me?! I missed an episode last week because of that friggin' ACC Basketball Tournament?!

    foxondemand foxes official video site just watch it there no big deal. As to the episode it was good some back story on Jessie nice can't wait to see what's in the box and the aftermath of Riley's death. Or I guess I should say the beginning since we don't know what the parties will do about it and I'm sensing that Johns uncle senses something amiss with Jessie and this whole affair can't wait to see if and how it comes out.



    I like burning the eps. to DVD directly, and so now I'm out of the ep. because they probably won't do re-runs.
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