What Cameron is; part 1

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    Sahlinrob

    [1]Mar 2, 2009
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    As I have very poor keyboard and writing skills I will discuss this in several parts, but I have done extensive studying of this character to the point of watching the entire series over 10 times start to the last ep, took notes, and did many web searches including reading interviews with Summer Glau. I think I have come to conclusions that nobody else has ever considered to my knowledge (based on information presented thus far in the series and disclosed events of upcoming episodes) The points I will make and go into in greater detail and the reasons I believe them to be true will be, but not necessarily in this order, the following...

    1. In the future John and Cam have a very close personal relationship. I know that a lot of others have also come to this conclusion as well but there are some things I'd like to point out on this. I will state here and now, however, that while I don't rule it out 100%, I don't believe it to be of a sexual nature, but more like a close brother sister type thing.

    2. She was originally built by Skynet to assinate John, ended up totally loyal to him....but, she was never actually "reprogrammed"

    3. While she is in fact technically a "machine", Cyborg, Android or whatever, she is in reality 100% human (with a few very minor exceptions) and must be looked at in this light to fully understand her actions.

    4. She was (in the future world) a "secret agent", spy, espionage operative or whatever working for john.

    5. She is, will be or was (the element of time travel makes things a bit confusing at times) a very, very important key figure in the ultimate victory of the humans over Skynet, perhaps even on a level of John himself.

    6. Derick will ultimately come to fully trust and consider her a "brother/sister in arms".

    All of these points are dependent on the show continuing of course..which I hope it does.

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  • Avatar of fatmouse0

    fatmouse0

    [2]Mar 2, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/05
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    Who's Cameron?

    I think I remember a character called something like that in season 1...

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  • Avatar of JWEBSR

    JWEBSR

    [3]Mar 3, 2009
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    fatmouse0 wrote:

    Who's Cameron?

    I think I remember a character called something like that in season 1...



    nice
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  • Avatar of m00nshadow

    m00nshadow

    [4]Mar 4, 2009
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    Sahlinrob wrote:

    As I have very poor keyboard and writing skills I will discuss this in several parts, but I have done extensive studying of this character to the point of watching the entire series over 10 times start to the last ep, took notes, and did many web searches including reading interviews with Summer Glau. I think I have come to conclusions that nobody else has ever considered to my knowledge (based on information presented thus far in the series and disclosed events of upcoming episodes) The points I will make and go into in greater detail and the reasons I believe them to be true will be, but not necessarily in this order, the following...

    1. In the future John and Cam have a very close personal relationship. I know that a lot of others have also come to this conclusion as well but there are some things I'd like to point out on this. I will state here and now, however, that while I don't rule it out 100%, I don't believe it to be of a sexual nature, but more like a close brother sister type thing.

    2. She was originally built by Skynet to assinate John, ended up totally loyal to him....but, she was never actually "reprogrammed"

    3. While she is in fact technically a "machine", Cyborg, Android or whatever, she is in reality 100% human (with a few very minor exceptions) and must be looked at in this light to fully understand her actions.

    4. She was (in the future world) a "secret agent", spy, espionage operative or whatever working for john.

    5. She is, will be or was (the element of time travel makes things a bit confusing at times) a very, very important key figure in the ultimate victory of the humans over Skynet, perhaps even on a level of John himself.

    6. Derick will ultimately come to fully trust and consider her a "brother/sister in arms".

    All of these points are dependent on the show continuing of course..which I hope it does.

    Poor writing skills? Bah, humbug! ...TEN times? Wow, I thought I was obsessed with this show, but six is probably my max for any one episode. Okay, maybe eight. Season one finale was just breathtaking, wasn't it? I only deleted it from my DVR after I had the DVD in my hot little hand!

    1. I also tend to lean towards the brother/sister relationship outcome. I haven't ruled out the other possibility, though.

    2. Interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. Here's a question for you on that. Do you think that Cameron was what Derrick saw in that basement room with the music coming out of it in the future detention house? I do. That's how he knew she was "metal" the instant he saw her back at the base.

    3. Again, interesting. Certainly Sarah seems to suspect it, given the end of her dream, wherein the terminator-nurse seems to die of bullet wounds in a most human manner before coming back to life and shooting her.

    4. Do you mean that as in, what I wrote in (2)? Or are you talking about Alison from Palmdale?

    5. I agree. It's as much a coming-of-age story for her as for John.

    6. Interesting. Possibly. It looks like Jesse's going to get hers next week. I hope so anyway. Certainly Derrick has come a long way from his initial view.

    Thanks for some interesting insights!

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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [5]Mar 11, 2009
    • member since: 02/25/09
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    First, let me say that this new theory is based on the premise that she was created with the ability to have and experience every emotion and feeling known to man including 100% free will. I have written many posts on why I believe this to be true and why Skynet would create her that way. Also that she was never "captured" and re programed but had a "change of heart" and "defected" from Skynet to the resistance by her own choice. So...enough said on that.
    This new idea is that she was never sent back by John..but rather took it upon herself to go back, without his approval. I'm not saying she did it against his wishes, but rather without asking him about it. Sneak off..dear John note, etc. Why would John send back a cyborg to protect him, as she claims, that wasn't designed to fight other cyborgs? where most of the threat to him would most likely come from. She seems to have some "deep dark" secret and is particularly "tense" around Derick, which makes no sense as she could snap his neck with one quick grasp. Maby she fears he knows something and could "spill the beans". Part of her "secret" was her spare parts "stash" that she reveled to John last ep. but I think there's more to it than that. What would be her motive? It seems to me that Cameron is totally devoted to John in every sense and loves him very deeply, in a very unselfish way. If she had to do something, that in her opinion, would be for his best interest in the long run, even if might involve the risk of making him hate her, I think she would do it, if she saw no other way. I could see this since the the first season, the last ep (Our selves alone) removed any drought. We also know from Jessi (if you can believe anything she says) that her relationship with John in the future was causing major problems, (never talked to anybody but her, making poor decisions and getting people killed). Rather or not that's true is debatable considering the source, but we do know from the scenes of Derick in the future a soldier at Connors base told him(Derick) that he (John) had no friends and didn't talk to anyone. So at least part of the story seems to be true. If their relationship was in fact causing John to lose "standing" among his peers, I can see Cameron, knowing her, to solve the problem by simply removing herself from the picture..return to the past. In the past she could "re-hook up" with John at a younger age, possibly help him to prevent J-day from occurring, thus the problems concerning their relationship during the war. If not, she would still have more time to prepare him for the the future world and also gain the trust of his closest associates and the acceptance of their relationship, before the war even started. A win either way. I still think that her post defection contributions to the resistance war effort proved to be invaluable, (the discovery and capture of the time portal, uncovering the origanal plot to kill Sarah Connor, assisting in the rescue of human POW's,Derick in particular, and other espionage work against Skynet). Still, it was a time of war and she was a Cyborg....bound to cause problems. It would be like if in the middle of WWII Harry Truman hooking up with a Jap..not good...reguardless of the Jap's loyality and contrubitions to the American war effort, people would never accept it.....
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  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [7]Mar 12, 2009
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    You should be a little more... idk, BRIEF??

    No I'm just joking, do wut u want.

    Okay, I think the brother-sister idea is cool. Too bad the movie will prove you wrong tho.

    Cameron as important as John in the Future? Like a spy or something? Hmmm... ...nah. John is way too smart/tactical/strong/important in the future to be matched. Jst my opinion tho.

    And Cameron voluntarily joining John without being reprogrammed? If that were so, then Cameron would have some kind of indivual volition designed out of the SkyNet basic programming perameters. Why would SkyNet build such a free-radical? An experimental terminator, perhaps? Actually, if it weren't for Allison from Palmdale, I'd theorize John built her from scratch himself in the future. But AfP proved me wrong there.

    I have a question- Do terminators age? I mean of course they wear out, but do their synthetic flesh ever show signs of aging? If not, then John and Cameron's relationship would be like a reverse Twilight scenario...
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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [8]Mar 12, 2009
    • member since: 02/25/09
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    Falcondude123 wrote:
    You should be a little more... idk, BRIEF??

    No I'm just joking, do wut u want.

    Okay, I think the brother-sister idea is cool. Too bad the movie will prove you wrong tho.

    Cameron as important as John in the Future? Like a spy or something? Hmmm... ...nah. John is way too smart/tactical/strong/important in the future to be matched. Jst my opinion tho.

    And Cameron voluntarily joining John without being reprogrammed? If that were so, then Cameron would have some kind of indivual volition designed out of the SkyNet basic programming perameters. Why would SkyNet build such a free-radical? An experimental terminator, perhaps? Actually, if it weren't for Allison from Palmdale, I'd theorize John built her from scratch himself in the future. But AfP proved me wrong there.

    I have a question- Do terminators age? I mean of course they wear out, but do their synthetic flesh ever show signs of aging? If not, then John and Cameron's relationship would be like a reverse Twilight scenario...
    To awnser your question......Why build a "free radical" I never stated that they created her with these things (total free will, all human feelings and emotions etc.) but rather the CAPABILITY to have them, even if they did intentionally give her a form of free will this could explained as a way to make her more "flexible" to better be able to deal with unforeseen factors that might arise as opposed to straight "blind unquestioned programing". However I like you don't think that was the original plan, but rather that she was an "experiment that went wrong" (from Skynets point of view). This is what I think happened.
    Skynet is a machine (computer) in the classic sense, cold, calculating, no feelings or emotions of any sort. While they probably were aware of these things on a intellectual level in the human make up, there is no possible way they could have even the remotest idea of how these things could effect behavior having never experienced them. To produce a very convincing "infiltrator" class of terminator it would be a logical assumption on their part to be able to make an accurate as possible "copy" of the human brain. With the help of Charles Fisher (the human turncoat) I believe this is what they did. They managed to 100% "map out" the human brain and reproduce it in a smaller more compact form (Camerons chip). She was created not so much with these things already "in place" but rather with the ability to develop them. A new born baby has very little emotion, no sense of right and wrong, no appreciation of of much of anything and very little free choice as it has no life experience to give it things to choose from. These are for the most part learned experiences. It's like Cameron was a new born baby in the body of a 17 year old girl. Skynet created in her a perfect "copy" of the human brain not fully realizing what that might imply. They had created a "monster" (from their point of view) that would ultimately turn against them. The first season is loaded with examples of her experiencing human feelings. Their usually very subtle but their there. The Jeep explosion explosion created problems at the time, but I don't think it has had anything at all to do with the way she has acted since then or the problems she has been having. I think their just a case of her developing more and stronger emotions, a greater ability of free choice etc. too quickly, and she simply dosen't know how to interpret these new feelings. Like when you put too much info too quickly into your pc and get the message "the program xxxx has encountered a problem and needs to close". She is having internal conflicts and is becoming confused...growing pains..which in her case could prove to have very serious results.
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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [9]Mar 12, 2009
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    Oh..just thought I'd add..

    Since I wrote my first posts on this subject, I've done some more research and have come to the conclusion that their relationship could very well be something other than a close "brother sister" type of affair.

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  • Avatar of Sahlinrob

    Sahlinrob

    [10]Mar 12, 2009
    • member since: 02/25/09
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    For those who haven't seem my other posts on this subject I thought I would resubmit them here..my apologies to those who have. Also keep in mind that these posts were written over period of time. As I became aware of new information, some "details" may have changed as to my theories concerning Cameron. If you see any discrepancies in diff posts, this is why

    1. She was built as a prototype by skynet as an infiltrator, so advanced that she has the capacity to learn and fully understand every human condition there is and not only learn it, but live as a human as well, all the emotions, feelings, passions, etc. The most important feature..total free will, the ability to "override" her basic programing if she should choose to do so. In the ep. where John removed her chip to sabotage the traffic lights he said "her chip is the most sophisticated learning computer on earth". I believe her full potential is unknown, even to her.

    2. A very Strong possibility that she was never "reprogrammed" or her chip altered in any way. She in time "defected" to the resistance (John) of her own free choice.

    3. Because of her "defection", Skynet never built another like her, but rather more "watered down" versions like Vick and Cromarti, she is also on Skynets "hit list" right along with John. Notice in the 1st ep.(pilot) that when Cromarti opened fire in the classroom, he was shooting at her only. After she went down he was going straight for her to perhaps "finish her off" permanently? Only when John dashed for the window and possible escape did he go after him. In the Mexico ep, while driving with Sarah as his prisoner he specifically asked if she(Cameron) had been damaged in the Jeep explosion. In the ep where Cromarti teamed up with Jodi (Cam's friend from the Palmdale ep.) he was actually looking for Cam and after Jodi said she new her brother (John) he acted like that was just an added bonus. She is far to valuable, with too much information to let live serving the enemy and must be "Terminated".

    4. It was through her "defection" that the resistance learned of the "time portal" and the original plot to assinate Sarah Connor.

    5. It was through her "defection" that John learned how to capture and reprogram other cyborgs by studying her chip. Again in the ep. where they were to sabotage the traffic lights, just before he removed her chip he got nervous and she said "It's OK John..it's not the first time WE'VE done this", in ref. to the future. The use of the word we've as oppose to you've, suggests she submitted to him..she was not a prisoner but acting of her free will.

    6. In the ep where Derick and company had been captured by Skynet and were being taken down to a room where music was playing, it was her that was down there. She was posing as an "interrogator" but working for John to effect their escape. This would be before her "defection" was discovered by Skynet". Remember the ax that appeared the next morning that Derick used to break the chains? How do you think it got there? How did he recognize her when he got back to base as a cyborg? The same music playing as the time he caught her practicing ballet in her room.

    7. She volunteered to go back in time to look after John in ALL ways, even on a personal and emotional level, to teach and prepare in ways his mother never could (remember, that while probally not on the series, she will die of cancer before J-day comes). Also to fully develop her human side in a better enviroment than the post J-day world. She needs him as much as he needs her.

    8. She and John will enter into a verry close, deep personal relationship with each other, not necassasarly sexual, but I don't totally rule that out.

    9. Her role in the final victory over Skynet will on the same level of importance as John himself.

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