The Apprentice Forums: African American OR Caucasion Poll

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  • Avatar of megarocks

    megarocks

    [1]Dec 16, 2005
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    I'm not trying to start a race war. I just think that the opinion on what Randall did is a matter of perspective. I'm sure that the perspectives can be divided down the race line. Because of my perspective as an African American and vast experience in corporate environments, I totally agree with Randall's decision. I'm sure a caucasian person would feel totally different. Perhaps I'm wrong but I feel like this is what it comes down to. Please respond with your race and why you feel the way you do.
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  • Avatar of megarocks

    megarocks

    [2]Dec 16, 2005
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    bump
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  • Avatar of megarocks

    megarocks

    [3]Dec 16, 2005
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    bump
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  • Avatar of silvioStrippers

    silvioStrippers

    [4]Dec 16, 2005
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    gettin bumpy in here, no?
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  • Avatar of jasendorf

    jasendorf

    [5]Dec 16, 2005
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    It's pretty simple... Randal blew his first business decision. He let superior talent slip through the organization's grasp. Doesn't matter what color he is, what color I am or what color Martians are... he blew an important business decision.
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  • Avatar of Tasali

    Tasali

    [6]Dec 16, 2005
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    megarocks wrote:
    I'm not trying to start a race war. I just think that the opinion on what Randall did is a matter of perspective. I'm sure that the perspectives can be divided down the race line. Because of my perspective as an African American and vast experience in corporate environments, I totally agree with Randall's decision. I'm sure a caucasian person would feel totally different. Perhaps I'm wrong but I feel like this is what it comes down to. Please respond with your race and why you feel the way you do.


    People are making a huge stink about this and making it a race issue. I will start off by saying that I am a woman, and Hispanic to boot, and I am a businesswoman... I work in the IT field, to be specific.

    People, it has exactly *$&% to do with race. Randall and Rebecca were BOTH qualified, and my boyfriend and I, who have watched every season of The Apprenctice, EASILY predicted that they would be the final two and that Trump should hire both.

    What Randall did to Rebecca was not about race, it was about selfishness and greed. I had great respect for him up until that moment. And then... game over. His very first decision as an employee of Mr. Trump, was to deny the Trump organization the benefit of an awesome employee like Rebecca, and his reasons for doing so were simply because he didn't want to share the spotlight. And yet, this just shows that he is disloyal (after all his lip service to respecting Rebecca and believing in her, etc etc), selfish, and completely not thinking of what would benefit the Trump organization the most. Had the tables been turned, Rebecca would have hired him, and throughout that entire episode and in the boardroom, she was loyal to Randall and never tried to make him look like crap, EVER... whereas he shot her down a great deal. This isn't a game, folks, it's an interview process... if anyone saw Martha Stewart's Apprentice this week, she fired that guy because he thought it was all "a game" and she was like... it's not a game, it is business. Randall treated it like winning a game show at the end.

    There was no reason for him to deny her otherwise. He got hired, he won "the game," and he even had the prime choice of which of the two projects he would get... she didn't even want his project. Trump asked the question purely expecting Randall to do the right thing and say yes, she deserves it as well. Instead, Randall shot himself in the foot. It was quite obvious that Trump was surprised and floored, and he was quick to move on with the conversation.

    Personally I hope Randall gets fired soon. He made a very poor decision, and a selfish one to boot. And I would be very disappointed to ever learn that Trump didn't hire Rebecca anyway, once the cameras turned off.

    In conclusion, Trump's want to hire both had NOTHING to do with race or sex, and everything to do with the fact that they were both qualified. Randall's decision to screw Rebecca didn't have anything to do with her being white, or a woman, it had to do with his own selfishness. And Randall being hired had nothing to do with his being black, because Trump doesn't need the "token black guy" in his organization... he needs top notch employees who know their sh*t, and Randall was, up until his screw up, precisely that.

    PS for someone with all that education, you'd think Randall would know that the plural form of apprentice, is apprentices... not apprenti. Good game, I guess they don't teach basic English in that fancy MIT school.
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  • Avatar of jasendorf

    jasendorf

    [7]Dec 16, 2005
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    And, if you really had any corporate experience... it would be obvious to you that Randal blew it... there's nothing harder to find than extremely well-qualified talent. And to have extremely well-qualified talent ready and willing to work for your organization at almost any term... and then turn them down. Stupid. Arrogant. And, quite honestly an extreme show of either 1) incompetence, 2) pride getting in the way of making a business decision, or 3) a lack of confidence in his own abilities that he felt he had to denigrate another to make himself into something better.
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  • Avatar of megarocks

    megarocks

    [8]Dec 16, 2005
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    obviously your caucasian
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  • Avatar of Ellbee

    Ellbee

    [9]Dec 16, 2005
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    Randall absolutely did the right thing. Donald set him up because, in a country where race still matters, he was too cowardly to hire a black man over a white woman. The people on this forum who are choosing to side with Rebecca are most likely white and very upset about the outcome (when you're used to winning, you don't usually lose very graciously). The Randall supporters, on the other hand, are probably not necessarily black, but just people who are viewing this from a business standpoint. The best candidate for a business position is usually the one with the most experienc and education. That would be Randall in this case. Plus, he won all of this tasks - ALL of them.

    Unfortunately, as bright as Randall is, he will probably not have much of a future at The Trump Organization since all the focus will be on his color, since that seems to be the only thing that is important here. We'll have to wait and see, but I view his appearance and win on The Apprentice as merely a stepping stone to more positive entrepreneurial ventures in the future.
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  • Avatar of Tasali

    Tasali

    [10]Dec 16, 2005
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    Ellbee wrote:
    Randall absolutely did the right thing. Donald set him up because, in a country where race still matters, he was too cowardly to hire a black man over a white woman. The people on this forum who are choosing to side with Rebecca are most likely white and very upset about the outcome (when you're used to winning, you don't usually lose very graciously). The Randall supporters, on the other hand, are probably not necessarily black, but just people who are viewing this from a business standpoint. The best candidate for a business position is usually the one with the most experienc and education. That would be Randall in this case. Plus, he won all of this tasks - ALL of them.

    Unfortunately, as bright as Randall is, he will probably not have much of a future at The Trump Organization since all the focus will be on his color, since that seems to be the only thing that is important here. We'll have to wait and see, but I view his appearance and win on The Apprentice as merely a stepping stone to more positive entrepreneurial ventures in the future.


    You're full of it, race/minority means nothing. This isn't about people sitting in the back of the bus anymore. There are many successful African-American MEN in business. If anyone should be raising a stink, it's women, because there really is a glass ceiling firmly in place in the business world. There are way more top executives who are male, both white and black, then who are female of any color.

    Hell, Trump had a gay guy this season, and he didn't get fired because he was gay, he got fired because he sucked (err, no pun intended...). Trump just wants the best people for the job, regardless of race, sex, orientation, religion... whatever. Toral tried to pull the religion card, and got canned for being a moron... but it had nothing to do with her religion, and everything to do with her refusing to do the job. The gay guy got pretty far until he made it all personal and freaked out and failed. The Jewish kid was a top contender, he just didn't have the strength and power to make it to the end. The black woman was there long enough, until she got couldn't step up. I would say that Trump's doing a fair job of finding damn good people, of any race or sex, to interview. If he was just picking blacks and gays just for the sake of having some token representatives, then it would be quite obvious early on that they were unqualified.

    I'm not white, I'm Hispanic, and you don't see me crying about how Hispanics aren't represented by the Trump organization. Get over the race issue, people. I'm Hispanic, a heavily unrepresented minority in the business world and Trump's company in particular, and I still think Randall was 100% wrong. He was asked to make a deicision about a new hire and whether or not she would be beneficial to the company. Randall's response? Naw I'm the apprentice, not her ME ME ME... up until that point, he kept the whole process in perspective, as an interview, as business... but at that point, it suddenly became a game show that he won. He made it go from "The Apprentice" to "Who Wants To Kiss A Millionaire's @SS?!"
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  • Avatar of crastinates

    crastinates

    [11]Dec 16, 2005
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    I had no favourite between Randall and Rebecca and I would have been EQUALLY outraged if Rebecca became the apprentice and had told Trump not to hire Randall as well. It has nothing to do with race, and *everything* to do with character.
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  • Avatar of randallfan

    randallfan

    [12]Dec 16, 2005
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    Tasali wrote:
    Ellbee wrote:
    Randall absolutely did the right thing. Donald set him up because, in a country where race still matters, he was too cowardly to hire a black man over a white woman. The people on this forum who are choosing to side with Rebecca are most likely white and very upset about the outcome (when you're used to winning, you don't usually lose very graciously). The Randall supporters, on the other hand, are...etc etc etc.


    You're full of it, race/minority means nothing. This isn't about people sitting in the back of the bus anymore. There are many successful African-American MEN in business. If anyone should be ....etc etc etc



    People scream race because even in corporate America, a black person who holds 5 serious degrees, have owned 5 business, went undefeated in all task (as manager), raised money in the final task, with more than half of his competitors saying he's the better person, is still not more qualified than a less experienced, less educated, white woman, who also lost more task (as task manager),raised no money in the final task, and who had less than half of the competitors say was the better person.

    If it's not about race, then what would you call it? It's the same old story..as a black person, you have to meet every single requirement and them some, just to be considered equal to a white person with half as much...and thats what Trump showed last night.
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  • Avatar of kwhite56

    kwhite56

    [13]Dec 16, 2005
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    [QUOTE="Tasali"]
    megarocks wrote:

    People are making a huge stink about this and making it a race issue. I will start off by saying that I am a woman, and Hispanic to boot, and I am a businesswoman... I work in the IT field, to be specific.

    People, it has exactly *$&% to do with race. Randall and Rebecca were BOTH qualified, and my boyfriend and I, who have watched every season of The Apprenctice, EASILY predicted that they would be the final two and that Trump should hire both.

    What Randall did to Rebecca was not about race, it was about selfishness and greed. I had great respect for him up until that moment. And then... game over. His very first decision as an employee of Mr. Trump, was to deny the Trump organization the benefit of an awesome employee like Rebecca, and his reasons for doing so were simply because he didn't want to share the spotlight.



    Race in America is always an issue and for you as a Hispanic woman to not see that is naive at best. Corporate America is not about being selfless nor charity. Just why should Randel offer Rebecca a chance? There are hundreds of people more qualified to run that condo project. Does a 23 year old financial writer who lost nearly every task have the skills to run such a huge project? I doubt it.
    This was ultimately a contest, he won she didn't.
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  • Avatar of Tasali

    Tasali

    [14]Dec 16, 2005
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    kwhite56 wrote:

    Race in America is always an issue and for you as a Hispanic woman to not see that is naive at best. Corporate America is not about being selfless nor charity. Just why should Randel offer Rebecca a chance? There are hundreds of people more qualified to run that condo project. Does a 23 year old financial writer who lost nearly every task have the skills to run such a huge project? I doubt it.
    This was ultimately a contest, he won she didn't.


    Hiring Rebecca wasn't about charity. Are you suggesting that Trump was being charitable? Because he VERY much wanted to hire her. However, he gave Randall his first task as an employee of the Trump organization. That task was simple: tell me if this other person is qualified and would benefit my company.

    Randall failed. Rebecca didn't make it through 13 weeks of hell with a broken ankle and a consistently crappy set of team members because she has a pretty smile. She WAS qualified, otherwise she would not have been there. And when she and Randall worked together, they kicked @ss left and right. Before that final boardroom, Randall sure talked up how much he respected Rebecca and how great she was. Then he went in there and ripped her apart as a little girl who can't play with the big boys.

    If Rebecca is unqualified to oversee the construction project, what the hell makes Randall qualified to revamp a bunch of casinos... or to oversee the condos, even, if he had chosen that task? I do not think this is a valid reasoning for not hiring Rebecca, because the same argument can be applied to Randall, and indeed, to ALL the apprentices in the past. Having five degrees doesn't make him automatically qualified to rebuild casinos.

    Corporate america is about finding good people who are going to benefit your company. Finding good people to do the kind of things that Trump demands is NOT easy, and yet even Trump clearly believed Rebecca was one of those few and far between young people that he could mold into an awesome employee for his company. He would NEVER have considered hiring her otherwise. What Randall forgot was that this isn't a game show even though there are cameras rolling. This is business. The question was not whether it would benefit Randall to hire Rebecca. The question was... WILL IT BENEFIT THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION. Because that's all that frickin' matters.

    Trump thought it would have benefited his company. Sooo Randall now thinks he knows better then Trump?

    As for the whole race issue, I still call BS. I am well aware that corporate America still deals with this very real issue. Not just race, but sex, and orientation. I'm not blind to that fact. However, I was talking about this particular situation. This was not about race, as some people are screaming about on these forums.

    The argument, from those screaming race, seems to be that Trump wanted to hire Rebecca simply because Randall was black.

    Look at that statement... does it look as stupid to you as it does to me?

    Trump has had men, women, blacks, whites, Jews, gays, whatever the hell race/religion Toral was (Hindu I imagine, or Middle Eastern at least)... interviewing for this job. As I said before, if any of them were unqualified and were chosen SIMPLY as token representatives of their minority, it would have been obvious FAST. But many of these minorities, not the least of which was Randall AND Rebecca (and last season two women made it), all made it on tv and even to the end.

    Trump wants the best people for the job. He doesn't need token black people in his company. He'll take 'em blue, if they will make more money for him. In the end, for Trump, money is what matters. He clearly thought both Randall and Rebecca were going to make more money for him.
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  • Avatar of randallfan

    randallfan

    [15]Dec 16, 2005
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    Tasali wrote:
    kwhite56 wrote:

    Race in America is always an issue and for you as a Hispanic woman to not see that is naive at best. Corporate America is not about being ..etc etc etc.


    Hiring Rebecca wasn't about charity. Are you suggesting that Trump was being charitable? Because he VERY much wanted to hire her. However, he gave Randall his first task as an employee of the Trump organization. That was not his first task as an employee. Trump That task was simple: tell me if this other person is qualified and would benefit my company. ..etc etc etc


    Tasali? Perhaps you need to review the show again. After Trump declared Randall as the Apprentice, Randalls first order of business was not to make a decision on whether to hire Becky. Trump basically asked Randall if he would share his apprenticeship. Randall responded NO based on the notion that they would both be first place winners (meaning Randall believed Becky was equally qualified).

    Why does it bother you that Randall said No? How many competitions have you been in where the first place winner shared his blue ribbon with the loser??? Especially a competition where, like Randall truely believed, he was the better person. The race issue comes into question, based on the fact, that the only solid point that could be raised about Becky was her loyalty and toughness (her ankle. LOL), she had less experience and less education. While Randall not only demonstrated those qualities (no one mentioned his toughness when his grandmother passed), but in the final interview, he basically gave facts bullet by bullet as to why he was more qualified, while Becky sat quietly and had nothing to say in response. Randall demonstrated and articulated his qualifications so well, that it got to the point that it was OBVIOUS that he was the better person. And yet, after all of that, he's asked by TRUMP if he would be willing to share the apprenticeship. Why? Why tell Randall he's hired then before Randall even gets to enjoy his victory lap, is asked if he would share first place? It was a competition, set to establish one winner. If TRUMP wanted two, then he should have said "You're both hired" Why would you or anyone else expect Randall to say yes? Do you even realize how ridiculous that sounds in a competition? Even a tie football game eventually has one winner. Just like the past Apprentice shows, we yet another black person who is demonized...even after winning fair and square.
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  • Avatar of CPK_Guy

    CPK_Guy

    [16]Dec 16, 2005
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    I'm a 28 year old black male, and also a VP for a $600M restaurant corporation. I have a BBA from Columbia, and a JD/MBA from Chicago, plus a 1 year Masters of Business from Oxford. I say that to illustrate that I have as much experience as a black man in corporate America - at the highest levels - as anyone else. And, because of my experiences, I can say with certainty that the comments made by some of the other black posters are both naive and ignorant. In no shape or form is race a factor in anything it has been implied to have been a factor in.

    The fact of the matter is, Randall's actions last night were abhorrent. He had the opportunity to grant Rebecca the chance to work with Mr. Trump as well, but he wanted all the glory for himself. What was the ultimate prize for winning....the job with Trump, Inc. or the notoriety? The job, of course! He had that, so why not let Rebecca have the job he didn't want? Simply put, he was greedy; he wanted the stage to himself.

    Notoriety - as it is - is for gluttons and and the insecure.

    As a historically downtrodden group, Black people, for the most part, won't see the errors of Randall's ways; we only see another victory for OUR group. This is a sad trait that I've never fully adopted. If a white person (Rebecca) had done to a black person what Randall did to her, you'd better believe the nation would have heard about it on CNN, Fox News and in countless publications. If you win $100M in the lottery, and the lottery commission wants to give someone who only missed 1 # $50M, you wouldn't tell them "No. There can only be 1 lottery winner." Randall's actions conveyed on clear and dangerous message to America....there is no charity in competition.
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  • Avatar of dollygill

    dollygill

    [17]Dec 16, 2005
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    I am African-American.

    I think Randal is selfish and deceived us all along.

    I think he is a despicable human being.

    Randal was rightfullly slammed on the msnbc site.

    But, I think his selfishness is going to do for more for Rebecca's career than anyone can imagine.
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  • Avatar of jasendorf

    jasendorf

    [18]Dec 16, 2005
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    CPK_Guy wrote:
    I'm a 28 year old black male, and also a VP for a $600M restaurant corporation. I have a BBA from Columbia, and a JD/MBA from Chicago, plus a 1 year Masters of Business from Oxford. I say that to illustrate that I have as much experience as a black man in corporate America - at the highest levels - as anyone else. And, because of my experiences, I can say with certainty that the comments made by some of the other black posters are both naive and ignorant. In no shape or form is race a factor in anything it has been implied to have been a factor in.

    The fact of the matter is, Randall's actions last night were abhorrent. He had the opportunity to grant Rebecca the chance to work with Mr. Trump as well, but he wanted all the glory for himself. What was the ultimate prize for winning....the job with Trump, Inc. or the notoriety? The job, of course! He had that, so why not let Rebecca have the job he didn't want? Simply put, he was greedy; he wanted the stage to himself.

    Notoriety - as it is - is for gluttons and and the insecure.

    As a historically downtrodden group, Black people, for the most part, won't see the errors of Randall's ways; we only see another victory for OUR group. This is a sad trait that I've never fully adopted. If a white person (Rebecca) had done to a black person what Randall did to her, you'd better believe the nation would have heard about it on CNN, Fox News and in countless publications. If you win $100M in the lottery, and the lottery commission wants to give someone who only missed 1 # $50M, you wouldn't tell them "No. There can only be 1 lottery winner." Randall's actions conveyed on clear and dangerous message to America....there is no charity in competition.


    And, with that, nothing more needs to be said. The TRUTH is what it is and the above posting is nothing but.
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  • Avatar of kwhite56

    kwhite56

    [19]Dec 16, 2005
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    CPK_Guy wrote:
    I'm a 28 year old black male, and also a VP for a $600M restaurant corporation. I have a BBA from Columbia, and a JD/MBA from Chicago, plus a 1 year Masters of Business from Oxford. I say that to illustrate that I have as much experience as a black man in corporate America - at the highest levels - as anyone else. And, because of my experiences, I can say with certainty that the comments made by some of the other black posters are both naive and ignorant. In no shape or form is race a factor in anything it has been implied to have been a factor in.

    The fact of the matter is, Randall's actions last night were abhorrent. He had the opportunity to grant Rebecca the chance to work with Mr. Trump as well, but he wanted all the glory for himself. What was the ultimate prize for winning....the job with Trump, Inc. or the notoriety? The job, of course! He had that, so why not let Rebecca have the job he didn't want? Simply put, he was greedy; he wanted the stage to himself.

    Notoriety - as it is - is for gluttons and and the insecure.

    As a historically downtrodden group, Black people, for the most part, won't see the errors of Randall's ways; we only see another victory for OUR group. This is a sad trait that I've never fully adopted. If a white person (Rebecca) had done to a black person what Randall did to her, you'd better believe the nation would have heard about it on CNN, Fox News and in countless publications. If you win $100M in the lottery, and the lottery commission wants to give someone who only missed 1 # $50M, you wouldn't tell them "No. There can only be 1 lottery winner." Randall's actions conveyed on clear and dangerous message to America....there is no charity in competition.


    That's right brother, there is no charity in competition and there shouldn't be. Rebecca lost and had no right to be offered any job. Are you telling me that if you won $100 million and the lottery wanted to give 50 million of your $100 million to the second place winner you would not object? Get Real! Randel should have been allowed to enjoy his moment in the sun, just like every other winner. I cannot recall any reality show where they declared two winners.
    Since you are 28 and still a young brother you have no idea or are ignorant of the struggles that Black men before you(myself included) went through so you could have the VP job that you now enjoy. Since you have several degrees and are only 28, your experience in the corporate world cannot cover very many years. I have been in the corparate world longer than you have been alive and have been successful and I can tell you that racism in the boardroom is very much alive and well. It is much better hidden but it still exists. And you need to remember that many of your colleagues probably still see you as just an educated ------. Look in the mirror my brother and realize that you are a Black man in America and the playing field is not level and has never been level.
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  • Avatar of dollygill

    dollygill

    [20]Dec 16, 2005
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    CPK_Guy wrote:
    I'm a 28 year old black male, and also a VP for a $600M restaurant corporation. I have a BBA from Columbia, and a JD/MBA from Chicago, plus a 1 year Masters of Business from Oxford. I say that to illustrate that I have as much experience as a black man in corporate America - at the highest levels - as anyone else. And, because of my experiences, I can say with certainty that the comments made by some of the other black posters are both naive and ignorant. In no shape or form is race a factor in anything it has been implied to have been a factor in.

    The fact of the matter is, Randall's actions last night were abhorrent. He had the opportunity to grant Rebecca the chance to work with Mr. Trump as well, but he wanted all the glory for himself. What was the ultimate prize for winning....the job with Trump, Inc. or the notoriety? The job, of course! He had that, so why not let Rebecca have the job he didn't want? Simply put, he was greedy; he wanted the stage to himself.

    Notoriety - as it is - is for gluttons and and the insecure.

    As a historically downtrodden group, Black people, for the most part, won't see the errors of Randall's ways; we only see another victory for OUR group. This is a sad trait that I've never fully adopted. If a white person (Rebecca) had done to a black person what Randall did to her, you'd better believe the nation would have heard about it on CNN, Fox News and in countless publications. If you win $100M in the lottery, and the lottery commission wants to give someone who only missed 1 # $50M, you wouldn't tell them "No. There can only be 1 lottery winner." Randall's actions conveyed on clear and dangerous message to America....there is no charity in competition.


    Absolutely.

    I think if anything, Randal missed a golden opportunity to present African-Americans in a positive light.
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