A The Blacklist Community
Thursday 10:00 PM on NBC (Returning September 22, 2016)
Now the first season of The Blacklist is over we are left with a lot of questions that need answering. I will put them up in the following weeks so you can think about them and vote what you think is either the reason, the perpetrator or the result.

This season we have seen a lot of developments playing out over the whole season, although we didn’t know they turn out to be. For instance we came to know that Tom, of whom we understand he is the girls favourite, is not who he seemed to be. Since we saw he had a secret stash of passports and a gun, we’ve known that there may be way more to this sweet, personable husband than meets the eye.

A second issue that bugged us the whole season was the adoption of a child. In the end, it didn’t work out because after dealing with an illegal adoption ring (in The Cyprus Agency), Liz decided not to adopt a child, driving an even larger wedge between her and her husband.

But the question that was never answered in the first place, was why Liz couldn’t get pregnant by her double crossing two timing husband/double agent. And I am wondering why.

I can think of a few possible answers, but the most cowardly would be that the writers just didn’t want her to be pregnant as it would harm the show. And although it isn’t of any concern for the question, I also seem to remember they were only married for two years. That might be a bit early to be able to adopt, but I am not sure. But it would fit in the fact that the writers just wanted it as an issue, logical or not.

But if we combine all the facts and know that Tom, the evil husband, only saw it as an assignment, he probably didn’t want her to become pregnant at all. That only would have complicated everything. So, if we combine it all, we get the answer I believe to be true: Tom faked all his orgasms.

What do you think?

poll

65 Comments
Comments (65)
Submit
Sort: Latest | Popular
Liz didn't want to adopt a kid coz they couldn't conceive. They explain it in the 1st half of the season that she wanted to adopt coz she herself was adopted. And she told this to Tom when they began dating itself, there's a scene where he tells her he "started to fall in love with her then".
4
Reply
Flag
I remember them talking about it, but it was never given as a reason for the adoption. So regrettably I do not agree with you. But, I do hope you have the moment in the episode where it is said so we can make it clear after all.
Reply
Flag
I remember her talking about the fact that she was adopted making it important for her to in turn adopt.

I think most people glossed this over because it doesn't seem like that strong or that credible a reason. Most people in her situation would probably have a first biological child and then adopt. It just seems really strange to go through all of that expense, intrusiveness, lack of control and frustration when you can conceive naturally, BUT that was the reason given.
1
Reply
Flag
It wasn't just that she was adopted. She talks about how there a lot of kids out there who need parents. It might take time & be expensive to adopt but you're doing good and for some people that's far more important than passing on their genetic material.
And strangeness is a matter of perspective. I just assumed there was someone on the writing staff who felt that way or was using this to illustrate just how good she is.
2
Reply
Flag
I seem to remember something like that. But as you said below: plot device and lazy writing.
Reply
Flag
No we don't see them talking about it, I got confused with another scene. The scene I meant is part of Tom's adoption interview. Liz finds and plays it at the end of the 2nd episode.
Reply
Flag
I think Tom got a vasectomy before his assignment to Lizzy, to prevent impregnating her.
2
Reply
Flag
Absolutely, it is one of the more probable reasons. I only wonder if he would be willing to do that for the cause as his assignment might have been temporarily and he might want to have kids with another woman.
Reply
Flag
Maybe he just could not give her an orgasm so they was just no hope for her to have her own kid.
Or maybe she just didnt want tom to be the father to her baby.
1
Reply
Flag
Not sure how to answer this one, but in order to get pregnant the guy needs to have an orgasm but the woman doesn't need one.

That second reason might be a good one, and in the post i wonder why.
1
Reply
Flag
Yeah and i could also say the guy can cum before he cums if you get what i mean?
Would you want a kid with someone who could not give you an orgasm? i wouldnt if i was her.
They could be a load of reasons why she did not want his kid i could be here all day naming them but that would be a waste of time and no fun. :)
Reply
Flag
There is no reason to believe that he had any problem having sex with her. We've seen them playful and amorous in several scenes and he was often the initiator.

Also, even after his masque fell away he didn't say that he wasn't attracted to her. He told that story about her drawing the heart and said that he'd felt sorry for her because he knew at that point that he'd hooked her -- but it wasn't clear from what he said whether his "pity" would have prevented him from still seeing what she did as cute and liking her on some level and even after she beats him and breaks his thumb he never really tries to retaliate by hurting her.

So, while I don't think he was in love with her, we don't have any reason to believe that he wouldn't be able to get it up for her or orgasm while with her.

I find Liz irritating, but if she were my only outlet, then maybe she would do.
1
Reply
Flag
you feel offended? please, how old are you again? Take that nappy off and grow up.
Well if the page was meant to be funny and i found it funny whats your point again?
How you find my comment offended i dunno but because i am the bigger person and i would not get upset over little things i will say that i am SORRY if i have hurt your feelings..
Flag
You obviously didn't see that the whole post was meant to be funny and a bit sarcastic. The other readers did.

For your information: I have flagged this comment as I feel very offended by it.
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Flag
@tvsuperstar You had us all fooled as no one who I spoke about your comment thought you were making a joke. Especially when you repeated it in your reply to me. As we think/thought you are a guy it even made less sense.

The wig could be an issue (already handled in this post), but that does till leave the question of the post open.

And I for certain do not want to be a spelling Nazi, but your use of English is confusing. Making a joke and not using emoticons can be difficult in that case.

I do hope you were not trying to have a laugh at the expense of the writers and readers of the post, that is seen as not funny and as trolling.
Flag
I was only having a laugh some people take everything to heart dont you.
I am sure she said once that she didnt want kids of her own why there is so many kids that needed homes already..
Well something along them lines i can not remember word by word.

MAYBE her wig fell off why they was in bed?
have you ever thought about that one eh?
Flag
I agree with your comment, but it's not what tvsuperstar says in both comments. I wasn't sure but it was repeated in the second one:

Would you want a kid with someone who could not give you an orgasm? i wouldn't if I was her.

So tvsuperstar says maybe Liz didn't want a kid from Tom because he was not able to make her orgasm.
Flag
I think Lizzie simply wanted to adopt because she claims to have had a bad childhood until Sam took her in, and so identifies strongly with children needing a good home.

She's a busy, career-oriented woman who doesn't have the yearning to go though the experience of being pregnant, she grew up without a mother which is another common reason for either not wanting (or wanting very badly) a child of her own (lack of rolemodels, etc.), so an adoption is a very reasonable choice
Also, we see a very curious lack of self-confidence in Lizzie at times - in the first episode we hear her parents described as a low-life career criminal (father) and "weak" (mother), which coupled with her lack of knowledge about them and their history may make her decide not to have children of her own, as she sees so many undesirable traits that may be passed on.
5
Reply
Flag
If we look at the issue from a serious viewpoint it might absolutely be right what you say. For me at least part would be laziness of the writers choosing that path.

Having had bad parents and their history could make in my opinion make her not wanting children at all. An adoption would not fit. That only fits if she didn't want one of her own, couldn't get pregnant or didn't get pregnant.

The choice of being a career woman and not wanting to go through the experience definitively could be a reason. One is some time out of business (not sure how much leave they get in the US, in The Netherlands its 16 weeks). But you really have to be a cold hearted bitch in my belief if you choose to adopt over having your won child because of your career. She is written as a career women, but not that cold hearted.

Missing a role model is about raising a child and not giving birth. So that would make her not adopt also.

Passing on undesirable traits would say something about Tom and her and that would make no sense to me, except when she believes genes jump from grandparents to grandchildren (or if she believed at that point that Tom and her had many undesirable traits). But I think she also had biology in Highschool.

Personally for me, the things I believe my parents weren't to good at in my youth were especially the things I tried to do well with my own kids. So I believe that would also apply to Lizzy.

All in all, I see a lot of reasons not to have a kid at all, but no real reason to adopt. I do believe the writers just used it as a plot issue and nothing that they want or need to explain. Craving together for a kid is something that defines their love in the first episodes. A baby would be something they have to stick with if she were pregnant and an adoption can be terminated without any problem. And stopping that adoption process is an acceptable turning point in their relation.

If it needs to be explained later it will be something like infertility.
More +
Reply
Flag
First off, men choose their careers over their children and wives all the time. So if the reasoning is because she should be a stay at home mom versus those guys are also not great fathers then that is definitely a sexist remark otherwise I am also of the sentiment that family comes first.

I don't thinking choosing her career over children in this case makes her a "cold hearted bitch" at all. She is clearly making the choice before a baby is in the picture. Furthermore, her being pregnant while doing her job not only would take her away from her current line of work but more importantly will be extremely bad for the baby-it would probably lead to miscarriage. Next, Tom so would have been the stay at home parent. That was his personality and he already taught kids and it would be less of a career-interupter for him.
And some people, like Liz, just feel it is a better to adopt than procreate because of all the parentless children out there. More so , given the fact that she too had been adopted.
So for Liz it was a double win to go the adoption route.
Reply
Flag
First: because she should be a stay at home mom versus those guys are also not great fathers then that is definitely a sexist remark As I have never said anything like that in my post or in my comments I nowhere talked about who should take care of the kid. I resent this reply you've given me.

In the post and in this comment I only talk about the pregnancy and not about the period after, so your next remarks to me concerning choosing her career over children is not applicable and not nice.

What you say that she might adopt because she believes that it is better to adopt then to put a new kid into the world is a valid argument that we've talked about in other comments. As this line of thinking was never introduced in the series, I do not believe it it the reason she wanted to adopt.

If this indeed is not the reason, as I said, there are only a few other reasons she might adopt and they have been described here. For one of those I still believe she would be cold hearted if she choose to adopt because she couldn't stand being away from work and I repeat what I said in my comment above: I believe here character isn't written like that so that won't be the reason either.

it would probably lead to miscarriage If work for pregnant women, as you suggest would lead to miscarriage it would not be allowed. She would have been assigned different work in the later period of her pregnancy. Arguments like that are called 'leading' (as in misleading) and are not nice.

In my opinion you were not replying to what was written but were giving your opinion about some facts in general. Never make the mistake to quote general rules to a specific issue. That is also called 'leading'.

If you ever want to comment to me again in this way, please make sure what I think about the subjects you want to write about so vigorously in a reply before you do the commenting (can't call it replying). You can always sent me a pm.
More +
Reply
Flag
I'd say you turned it from a fun post when you used the words " cold-hearted bitch". I am of the mindset that one should not use offensive language in description of people ,particularly that of which is gender based since it almost always has a more negative connotation on the female. (Most are female based (bitch, whore, slut...) and there are even some that are directed to a male but are still insulting the female such as "son-of-a-bitch".)Using such words, heightens reactions and does not portend "fun". It implies accusation and malcontent.

As for being pregnant and it affecting your career-it totally depends on the career. I think her particular field of choice-it would affect it greatly. Others not as much. Though I think her being an agent as she is , already sets her up for being a not great parent in my mind no matter if she adopts or has the pregnancy herself. I think the fact that she would be away from home often and that she always puts herself in harms way- is already doing a disservice to her family.

And I don't think adopting for the reason of career is not a bad reasoning in and of itself if you do plan to care and provide for your child. I actually know people who believe having a child is already selfish, and if one were to want children, one should adopt. Adopting might actually bring certain people to love the child more since they would not feel any issues of resentment with the child or any other such factors that might occur. It all depends on the person.


More +
Flag
@kou_shun_u To me, I still see it as you saying she is married and thus it is her duty to give birth to children no matter how it may affect her and what she may want. You are correct in saying it is how you see what you read. If you want my opinion, as said before, you have to ask and not throw accusations around.

otherwise I am also of the sentiment that family comes first. I did not overlook that part of the sentence, it just, as you said, has nothing to do with the question asked.

You are correct in saying that it will affect her upward movement. We do not even know how much she wants to move upward. My opinion to this situation is that if you are motivated and talented enough, being away for a pregnancy out of your original job should not and will not affect a career. It might change her own opinion of a career, but that would be the same after adopting a kid. So we still are left with the pregnancy.

I also stick to my opinion that I think a woman is cold hearted if she can conceive but chooses to adopt because of a career and her fear her upward movement might be in jeopardy. She should not take kids at all as they will take up more time after pregnancy (even if you divide tasks between mom end dad evenly). If she choose not to have a kid at all because of a career, I would never call her that.

I
n the same way I would call a man cold hearted who would choose his career over a/some/important/? family matter. I once didn't accept an (upward movement) job because my wife didn't want to move.

And now I will stop replying to you. This post was a fun post that should give people a smile and you turned it into a discussion we should not have.
More +
Flag
So if the reasoning is because she should be a stay at home mom versus those guys are also not great fathers then that is definitely a sexist remark otherwise I am also of the sentiment that family comes first.

So first there is that part of the sentence which seems to have been overlooked.
But you are addressing the pregnancy not the time after so I'll stick to that.

Choosing her career over pregnancy does not mean she "she couldn't stand being away from work". It means that being pregnant would affect what she is allowed to do at work and her career path.

As we have seen in the show, Liz gets routinely injured, is under high stress, and undergoes under goes a lot of physical exertion. Therefore where she pregnant she can't do her job. And since she physically can't do her job, she is not as protected under the Pregnancy Discrimination Act. Yes she would be in the FBI but it would not be her current job.
Next of all she just started working there, getting pregnant right now, does not look good for her commitment to work and her upward momentum.

So I don't understand how choosing to adopt instead of getting pregnant in order to have children makes her a "cold-hearted bitch". That is greatly offensive. And I am still strongly offended by it and thus my vigorous reply. To me, I still see it as you saying she is married and thus it is her duty to give birth to children no matter how it may affect her and what she may want. Because how else can the thought of her being a "cold-hearted bitch" in reference to this even occur to you?!?!


More +
Flag
Yes, I understood that the reasons GreyMinerva mentioned are the ones the writers were probably selling, but to me they didn't make much sense at all either.

In the context of the show, the adoption was a good foil for showing what was going on with the marriage (both the apparent and real aspects -- since if he weren't playing her Tom would probably never have continued on with an trying to get a child that his wife's lifestyle couldn't support) and allowed for the character to have crises around the issue and to go back and forth with it in a way that US viewers would accept versus, for instance, if she had gotten pregnant, had second thoughts and then decided to have an abortion.

Plus, once we, as viewers find out that Tom is dirty, the adoption is a nice will-they-or won't they element to create suspense.

A device, nothing more.
1
Reply
Flag
I agree. So I suppose you choose one f the serious answers: lazy writing.
1
Reply
Flag
Btw, I believe the nationwide maternity leave is something like two weeks in the US, anything more is either different from state to state, or a company policy (but anything more than 6-8 weeks is rare).
After that you either get a nanny/childcare fascility, or leave work to be a stay-at-home parent.
1
Reply
Flag
That's bad in comparison with my home country or even other European countries. We have a legal minimum of 16 weeks (before and after the birth) and it can be extended based on a collective labour agreement or company policy.

Sweden is the country with the best arrangements: 18 month for both parents together. Each must use at least two months, the rest has to divide between them in any way they want.
1
Reply
Flag
Yes, it's really short in the US and there is no guaranteed leave for adoptive mothers or for fathers (unless that's something your employer stipulates).
1
Flag
Ah, thanks. Didn't know you were form Norway. Beautiful country with lots of rocks. Loved Bergen, but it's been almost twenty years since I've been there..
1
Flag
Norway has about a year of 80% pay, or a little less at a 100% pay - about three months each is earmarked for either parent, the rest can be split between them.
1
Flag
It might possibly come from Tom as well, you know. He may be willing to marry her and raise a kid with her (for a while), but think that having a biological child with his "mark" would be too much to ask - make it more difficult to walk away.
In his line of work, having a known offspring is probably more like announcing to the world "Look, leverage against me!".
So using his altruistic cover - goody two-shoes middleschool teacher Tom - he argues for adopting over having their own for all of the "right" reasons; Lizzie's childhood would make her susceptible to his arguments.
2
Reply
Flag
Yeah, I think that is why Tom was in full support of the adoption route. It would have made it easier on him.
However, I felt his original plan was to get her pregnant so that she would be more tied to him, more trusting of him, and more likely to go with his plans to move them out of the city.

And just as a semi counter point- if you are a Tom/Liz shipper, their having a child would give himself better reason to "switch sides" . A self sabotage of a sort.
Reply
Flag
You're right because later with Jolene he says "I married the woman for God's sake," so marrying her is probably as far as he's willing to go.

It probably would be for most people. A mark is one thing -- a child (your own child) is another -- especially, if as you say he isn't inclined to actually be a parent (which you'd think someone in his line of work wouldn't be).
1
Reply
Flag
I completely agree. The post is also about Tom and not about Lizzie. You added a good reason and option I should have added: Tom had a vasectomy to make sure Lizzie wouldn't get pregnant.
Reply
Flag
Wide angle lenses to properly film a pregnant woman are very expensive ;-)

1
Reply
Flag
Ah, I see, at least they will be able to pay for James Spader next season and that's what counts.
1
Reply
Flag
Didn't she say, in one of the first episodes, that she wanted to adopt and not have her own child, so she could pretend to not notice Tom was faking his orgasms, while actually faking her own.
4
Reply
Flag
OMG, missed that one. It would be the answer to one of the other questions I had and mentioned in my comment to @CaitlinRice.
1
Reply
Flag
You think of the funniest things !
1
Reply
Flag
Thank you Sir! Some will say I have a crippled mind. I like to think of myself as 'thinking out of the box'. I always see the funny side of everything. Just a character flaw.
Reply
Flag
I saw your article on wigs and I did not want to participate. Orgasms on the other hand I can't resist :-)
1
Reply
Flag
LMAO! If Tom did fake his organisms he must have really looked forward to his alone time. ;)
1
Reply
Flag
You naughty person!
Reply
Flag
Gotta love a show that makes this a valid discussion topic. :)

It would definitely make sense, but I guess it seems like it would be a little bit difficult to fake one, especially if you at some point were actively "trying" to have a kid...
2
Reply
Flag
Oh yeah, it is. And I watched the whole season, althought there were some glitches. And without it being promoted I get more hearts and comments then the promoted ones. I am so glad people understand there is fun to be had with any show. Not everything is as serious as some seem to believe. That's why I also like a show like POI, the comments are full of fun.

On the difficult side of faking, you touch upon one of the other questions we have (the list was about 40 questions long, although some have been answered in the final episode): 'If so, how did Tom fake his orgasms without Liz noticing?' or 'How come an FBI agent did not notice her husband faked his orgasm?'.
1
Reply
Flag
Well she's not the most competent of FBI agents hahaha
1
Reply
Flag
Do you think he uses Cialis or Viagra?
Reply
Flag
This is hilarious!

I bet you that someone will harass you and flag this post but inappropriate flagging (pattern of flagging certain people who are not violating the TOS) is harassment. Just ask @edshrinker who has been harassed by inappropriate flagging (bullies who violate the TOS without repercussions)
1
Reply
Flag
I'll deal. It was just a link. What kills me is it was a story that gave The Blacklist a HUGE compliment on the awesomeness of their title sequence and I thought the community would appreciate it. Now I know better. I shall simply leave the ones who "own" this community to themselves.
2
Reply
Flag
I am thinking Tom may sound a bit like this:


2
Reply
Flag
quitter:-P
Reply
Flag
I am fighting by not letting this rent any more space in my already crowded head.

There is a saying I give to people who always want to argue with me or persecute me.
"I'd rather be happy than right" and I walk away.
2
Reply
Flag
Most of my girlfriends learned that was the best way to get me to react. I am a little too intuitive for a straight on attack via raising voices. The thing with passive aggressive though, is once you spot it, it is easy to confront and really frustrate the attacker.
2
Flag
I'd be surprised if one actually argued directly with you instead of being passive aggressive
1
Flag
I know. Believe me, getting read the riot act for doing something that Pat encouraged us to do really ticked me off. Especially when I know who flagged it (again and again). But I am sick of getting stressed out on here when it used to be my way of unwinding after work. I volunteer sometimes 8 hours of my day to do shows staff won't cover or to try to do a Staff quality discussion post and I do feel crapped on.

But I would rather let it go. I want to get back to enjoying my time here. But I hear ya Vicky.
2
Reply
Flag
haters are gonna hate (see what your popularity does…it brings out the haters)…lol @ all the jealousy (you should be flattered)
1
Flag
you give in to the bullies who spend like 5 minutes on a "post/poll" whereas you work your tush off for creative and fun posts that get like a billion comments. I wonder if they are jealous of your popularity and creativity;-)
1
Flag
This comment has been removed.
Reply
Flag
As is said in the movie Dumb and Dumber (which I appropriately quote often)

"You have a rapist wit."

LOL. So many questions so little time.

On a serious note, I do wonder if they decided to make Tom a villain later in the series since adoption would be a really dumb idea for someone running a long con on her.
2
Reply
Flag
If you are doing a long con, wouldn't adoption be the better idea? That way , you most likely wouldn't have as much guilt abandoning your kid because he isn't yours? Also the kid would be less likely to be kidnapped as leverage in the future since you gave a different connection with him?
1
Reply
Flag
YOu are right practically speaking. But I was thinking more - maybe he would start to build attachments which would cloud his decisions on the mission. It appears that was kinda happening already
Reply
Flag
Ah. Well he wanted to make sure he cemented his relationship, and once you add a kid, you are forever connected (or at least should be). Wasn't it said somewhere that he left they were growing apart (I guess with her workload) so he wanted to bring her attention back to family?
1
Reply
Flag
Don't they say that the mission comes first?

Or if you want to look at it another way, he knew who Red was and ttherefore knew his kid would be super protected.

And hey, maybe he wanted to connect himself to Liz for his own personal reasons.
Flag
If so - he is a colder operative than I give him credit for. Using a baby and it's life to further your mission.
Flag
Follow this Show
Members
19,418