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I was REALLY hoping for Tom to get shot in the face but I suppose three gut shots will do. There's a joke about "a woman scorned", but this falls more under the, "that's what you get" category. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

After the reveal of Tom's mission, motives and alleigences, I didn't think he served much of a long term purpose going forward. Adding a Liz hunting down Tom story arc seemed redundant and unlike Berlin vs Red and Red vs The Blacklist, there wasn't going to be much payoff. What else could Tom say that wasn't already said during his face to face with Liz a few episodes back?

So, Tom's dead and Agent Keen is DC's latest eligible bachelorette and I think all, or at least enough, information is in to do a post mortem (Ha!) on the whole, "Did Tom love Liz" debate that's been going on for some time.

In his last display of affection, he took Liz hostage and used her as a human sheild with a gun pointed to her head. That's true love right there...err...right? Okay, so maybe it's not. But an after the fact, when it was too late to do anything about it, he did say he was sorry. Well, that changes everything then. And with his, "Your father is still alive" deathbed confessional, Tom might just have confirmed that he's one of the biggest dicks on TV with one last f*ck you on his way out. That is presuming he knew that Red was Liz's father (IF he is), seriously dude, not cool.

So, we add this to all of the horrible things Tom has done to Liz from the moment he met her and I think it definitely answers the questions regarding his feelings towards her.

Did Tom love Liz? HELL no! There's no reasonable person who can see and qualify Tom's actions as love.

Did Tom care for Liz? Sure, Tom didn't want to kill her. Or more likely, he have VERY strict orders not to kill her. But still, that might qualify as a level of caring. Tom cares for Liz much in the same way I care for an inmate sitting on death row. I care enough in that I don't want them to be killed, but that's about it.

Much of this is predicated on the notion that Tom's final slump was his actual death and his body being gone was for Liz's protection. Cause if he's not and shows up again down the road...UGH! As fun as The Blacklist is most of the time and as entertaining as James Spader's performances are, if that happens, I might just pull the chute on this show right then and there.
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Tom appeared to be dead, but then the police didn't find his body. Will he be back next season?
Bokenkamp:
I hope so. Honestly, that's one thing that I'm not entirely sure how he will or may or could even weave into her life because it does feel like such a conclusion that this man entered her life, had a role to play and he's now gone. That said, I loved the character and I love Ryan. There's something really compelling about the stories that we've been able to tell with him. I'm hoping we can surprise ourselves with that.
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Or, red was trying to kill her father, and now he can't find him, so keeping Liz alive would be to his advantage, don't like this scenario but i don't put anything past the writers.
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For the ones who think they have not planned out past season 1, your dead wrong. The numbers below the episode name, are how many different people are on the blacklist, so they have almost 200, or even more. 22 episode seasons would after 8 seasons be 176 episodes. Notice the Finale was No. 8 and mid-season was No. 16, next season will be 7 and 15 as mid season finale, then so on down the list. that would be sweet, and it would be cool if the number one was liz's actual father. Red if not her uncle, was working with her father. Tom is dead, only way he isnt is if he is working with RED. And Mr. Kaplin was waiting for liz to leave to rescue him. If people stop watching this show because they think its not put together well, you might wanna hold off and see where they are taking it. Plus, This is a show where they can throw in any superstar, at any time, hence the blacklist consisting of at least 161(The Stewmaker) names. Don't give up on this show guys!
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I said it after the first episode, red is NOT her father, but I do believe he is her uncle.
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Well here is some statistics on gun shot wounds. Yes, Tom has 3 but still:

Abdominal gunshot wounds. An urban trauma center's experience with 300 consecutive patients.
Abstract:

From July 1983 through December 1987, 300 consecutive patients with penetrating gunshot wounds of the abdomen causing visceral or vascular injuries were treated. Resuscitative thoracotomy was required in 20 patients (6.6%), and only two survived. The most commonly injured organs were the small bowel (60%), colon (41.6%), liver (29.3%), vascular structures (24.6%), stomach (17.3%), and kidney (17.0%). The overall survival rate for the series was 88.3%; however, if only the 226 patients without vascular injuries are considered, the survival rate was 97.3%. In the 35 patients who died, the blood pressure on admission was 51 mmHg, 18 required a resuscitative thoracotomy, four visceral or vascular injuries were present, and the median blood replacement was 18 units. The cause of death was perioperative shock in 30 patients (85.7%), whereas five patients (14.3%) died of sepsis and multiple organ failure. The most common postoperative complication in survivors and patients who died later in the study was an intra-abdominal abscess (3.0%). Rapid conservative operative techniques for civilian gunshot wounds leads to few postoperative complications and an excellent survival rate, especially if vascular injuries are not present.

Furthermore do we know for sure Tom wasn't wearing anything in this realm:


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Well, that he was bleeding at all would indicate to me he wasn't wearing a vest. Multiply that list of wounds by three and I'm gonna guess include the possibility of spinal damage because of the close range. That said...

I wouldn't bat an eyelash in surprise if Tom suddenly showed up next season. My level of disappointment in the show however, that's incalculable. So much so that at this point, I question whether the "Spader can compensate for anything" factor I currently rely on will be enough.

I don't know if it'll be enough for me to drop the show from my rotation, but it'll certainly be enough for it to drop down my ranking. And for a show that while greatly entertaining, isn't of the highest quality, that ain't good.
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Well I'm not saying a vest but like a kevlar shirt or something thin. Something that would minimize damage.
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So after all the questions raised during the season , Red is Lizzie's father?!
Anyway the whole Berlin arc was just lame , why did Berlin have to get into America on a prison transport plane anyway , never quite understood that part the guy is obviously as well connected as Red. Also Liz the character lost what little credibility and respect she had when she allowed Tom to live. Such a shame the lead female character is so terribly written and portrayed.
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As for Red being Liz's father, we still don't have an answer, we only know is was in the fire that night, delivered her to Sam and took off.

I also had questions about why Berlin was on that prison plane. I don't think he was on it by choice, because there have got to be way easier was to slip into the US. Berlin obviously has powerful enemies, so perhaps one of them was responsible for his capture and he orchestrated his escape from prison. Red and the team disrupted what would have been an impressive plan.

I don't think Liz's being a little conflicted about letting the man she spent over two years with die makes her unworthy of respect, I think it makes her human. To quote the Incredibles, "Valuing human life isn't weakness, and disregarding isn't strength".
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So this is how it is: it is the snape scenario. I got that long before the final book and the same is true for here. The adversary is the father. Red was so deeply I love with the mother that Keen (who he was raising with the mother prior to the fire which was an attack by the adversary to which Red retaliated by killing the Adversary ...or so he thought) is now his object of Red's devotion and affection. Red is convinced he killed the father. The father hates Red for taking his love (Red and his best friend the adversary were in love with the same woman) and daughter. The father is a psychopath which is why the mother choose Red or she didn't know she was pregnant when they married. Red is the STEP_FATHER!! the Adversary is the Biological father. Red and the adversary were best friends at the Naval Academy. the End. Now that the scenario is exposed and naked lets hope the writers come up with an original idea like a coat of many colors. Best Regards

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What I got so far is this:
About two decades or so ago, someone in the American secret services or the military sent Berlin his daughter piece by piece to his prison for some reason that remains unknown. Once free and on his path for revenge, Berlin discovers that Red is somehow involved in his daughter's death and not knowing who else is involved focuses his hatred on him and burns his house down, killing one of his daughters , while the other ,presumably Lizzie is still alive. Knowing that she is danger, Red takes her to one of his best friends, a man who does not yet know what Red does and leaves Lizzie in his care. Relentless after years of research,Berlin discovers the identity of Lizzie and sends Tom to cozy up to her and to his surprise, she falls in love with him and he pursues the deception and marries her. In order to give her a fighting chance, Jack veers Lizzie towards a career in the FBI, and meanwhile Red who has kept an eye on her finally catches up with Berlin's infiltration and decides to step in with the Blacklist.
Unless Lizzie is really not his daughter as he has been saying for a while.
A shot in the stomach is the worst way to die because added to the wound itself it releases the HCL acid into the other organs of the body.there is no way out of such a shot, least of all being able to move at all.So Tom should die and die a horrible death.


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who says after liz and red left someone from berlins team didnt come to toms rescue???/ there is possibility that he is still alive... why kill him off as much as we all love to hate him hes still a big part of this show the cat and mouse between the 2 game is very intriguing.
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He WAS a big part of the show, the cat and mouse WAS intriguing (well, not that intriguing actually...there was too much hype for merely 2 eps of cat and mouse).

Just from the interviews from Jon Bokenkamp and other writers, it seems like their intention for season 2 is to GO FORWARD, as they should. That is the only way to keep the series fresh and inventive....and well, alive. GOING FORWARD means no longer dwelling on the characters who've served their purpose and function of season 1. I'm looking forward to Berlin as the baddie, and also Scary Gary's role as I heard a rumor he may play an intriguing part next season.
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"who says after liz and red left someone from berlins team didnt come to toms rescue???/ there is possibility that he is still alive"

Three point blank to the gut. He could get shot in an operating room with a surgical team prepped and thinking he'd survive would be a BIG ask. The supposition and "what if" required of him saved by hypothetical characters nobody's seen and rushed from that dank apartment to some back alley doctor who saves his life...not so much.

Doesn't mean I don't think the show will won't trying this ridiculous slight of hand...but I'd find it borderline insulting

"why kill him off as much as we all love to hate him hes still a big part of this show the cat and mouse between the 2 game is very intriguing"

He WAS a big part of the show and the cat and mouse game WAS intriguing. Now that the secret's out, I fail to see the intrigue and without the intrigue, he can't be a big part of the show.
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Tom appeared to be dead, but then the police didn't find his body. Will he be back next season?
Bokenkamp:
I hope so. Honestly, that's one thing that I'm not entirely sure how he will or may or could even weave into her life because it does feel like such a conclusion that this man entered her life, had a role to play and he's now gone. That said, I loved the character and I love Ryan. There's something really compelling about the stories that we've been able to tell with him. I'm hoping we can surprise ourselves with that.
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I think that interpretation is reasonable, though there is some reasonable supposition to be made depending on your point of view and trying to see through the shows tricks and misdirection

1. Berlin's daughter was Red's wife
2. It wasn't ACTUALLY her that Berlin received in pieces or it was and her death was faked for Red's benefit
3. Red pulled Liz from the flames but isn't her father. His reasons for being there in the first place being evil or noble

I don't think any of those would be considered a cheat. As far as Berlin knew, it was his daughter...no DNA kits in the goolag. Switching bodies on Red might be tricky, but made much easier considering it'd be burned. And Red show invites himself into A LOT of people's homes, regardless of intent.

I'm personally rooting for #1 and #2 to be true, which would essentially put Red and Berlin on the same team and pit them against a common foe in retaliation for their daughter/wife...perhaps the Alan Alda led group? #3 seems like the type of misdirection this show would do, so it wouldn't surprise me if Red's scars were explained away.

Surviving 3 point blank bullets to the gut with no immediate medical attention...? That IMO is NOT a reasonable supposition. The suspension of disbelief required for that dwarfs anything they've done thus far and is one step too far.
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I wouldn't mind #1 if you can explain how the daughter of a Soviet KGB enforcer marry an American military man ( or whatever was Red) at the heart of the Cold War. Unless this is exactly it, a secret wedding which the "enemy" found out and hence the events unfold. However, to our knowledge, Red's wedding was not secret nor the existence of his daughters.
From the given, we can be quite certain that Red's organization exists solely for the purpose of creating the Blacklist and its purpose, finding who "killed" his wife, and whether she is still alive. With his connections, whom the series insists are unique and thoroughly worldwide, he should have at least discovered if she is dead or alive and some details on whom he behind all this mess. The Alda Group (sic) are Red's umbilical cord to the military and intelligence community, hence the man or men behind Berlin's situation. Everything seems to orient us to Alda as the Boogeyman, but I feel it is a major red herring.
After some thought, I have come to the conclusion is that if Lizzie is not his second daughter, then she can be but his niece and the man who died, allegedly, is then his brother which would explain why he happened to be there. I belong to a military and diplomat dynasty from both sides of the family; So I know for a fact that more than a male of the bloodline can join the Army. So it would imply that both brothers where in different arms; maybe Red the more covert of the two.
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the first 2 scenario is great but the last is NAHHH, doesnt appeal... but anything is possible here even the fact that tom might be a live :)
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"how the daughter of a Soviet KGB enforcer marry an American military man"

I fear this writing team trying to copy what The Americans are doing. Could just as easily be Berlin got his daughter out of the country for her own safety prior to getting sent to prison.

"From the given, we can be quite certain that Red's organization exists solely for the purpose of creating the Blacklist and its purpose, finding who "killed" his wife,"

I actually didn't get that at all. From the given, Red's blacklist was created for the sole purpose of providing him a means to battle and find out the identity of Berlin.

"if Lizzie is not his second daughter, then she can be but his niece and the man who died"

Not unreasonable, but not a theory I'm a huge fan of. If Red's brother was Liz's father, it would take a convoluted back story as to why it's so dangerous for her to know his identity...which is why I like the idea that her dad was a criminal associate of Red.
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I have had the same qualms as you concerning her being perhaps his niece. At the same time, he has gone to such lengths and sufferance on her behalf and made it so plain that "she's worth it" that I cannot see any other relationship aside from her being his daughter.
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I might just pull the chute on this show right then and there.

Yup. 3 shots at close range to the stomach ...minutes to hours in between extraction would result in absolute death. If they wanted maintain Tom as maybe alive, do NOT DO THAT! I like the show. But that is dumb ass writing I will not forgive. If that crap for a character returns (sorry TomGirls), you are all suckers.

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aaaahhhhhhh what is it with tom girls???? i think the chase between them is great... fans like him and not all girls i hope... so keeping him alive would be good... as i said earlier why couldnt one of berlins guys get tom help...anything is possible here
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Not with 3 close range gut shots. He was there at least 5 minutes bleeding out internally. Fine if the show wanted him back. But then they shouldn't have had 3 bullets go in his stomach from 2 feet away.
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yes, its true... but would be good to see him in coma maybe survives in the future and works with red, still so many unanswered questioned about him... have you ever wondered why berlin chose him or picked him???? was he threatened or blackmailed or was he doing it willingly
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There could be an awesome answer or a plot hole. Nothing in between. He threw out the "We're the good guys" but in no way will Peter Stormare play a good guy. Love that dude. I am not sure if they know at this point what they want to do about Tom or Berlin. So they left it open. I would think once they were renewed, they cast Stormare into an existing role (Berlin) and re-thought what they wanted him to be (now a villain). They may not have thought it out totally past season 1 yet. BUt I am very sure Berlin won't be "a good guy"
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I really like Tom as a character esp. in a show where so many characters are uninteresting or barely developed (pretty much everyone at the FBI save Lizzie and a bit Ressler) so I'd like him to come back. Not only we know nothing about Berlin himself, Berlin's operation nor how Tom ended up recruited by Berlin (we know nothing about his real life or background) and I would disagree that Lizzie has resolved everything re: Tom. Their face off was short and frankly disappointing...
I am not sure that it really matters that much whether Tom loved Lizzie or not. My guess is that he cared at least a bit and yes, he'd prefer not to have to shoot her...(esp if he is under orders not to do so). After you spend so much time pretending to care for someone, something rubs and Lizzie has her good moments I am sure. But mostly she was Tom's mark, a job. I really hope the show doesn't go the trite route to make this into some romantic BS... sure angry sex I'd buy, romance between these two... not so much at least not at this point in the story
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An interview with Jon Bokenkamp has him stating that Tom/Liz fake marriage romance storyline is DONE. And it sure looked like it in the finale. Liz character is gearing to be stronger next season, and reverting to this Tom storyline will be redundant and regressive.

I just DON'T GET the fangirl mentality. They are girls, no? How can they stomach all the violence Tom laid upon Liz, and in delusion root for him to love her after all? Is something off in the feminist universe??
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I do not think it is anything to do with the feminist universe at all. But I do agree with you that there is a sector of the TV-watching population that seems overly invested in 'ships' and particularly sinking 'ships'. This population wants to see romance and love stories where there is hardly any evidence. Most troubling are the 'ships' that seem obsessed in a happy ever after type of ending for the most dysfunctional of relationships including violent ones or completely fraudulent relationships like Lizzie and 'Tom''s.
But please do not blame feminists for these... They are innocent of these charges...
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Well said, well said. Agree with everything you said. I could understand fawning over a pretty face, but to be obsessively loyal to a character who had punched a lady...can't understand that, man. Just the thought of it makes my skin crawl. At some point, domestic violence is violence, regardless of LOVE or any other fraudulent EMOTION that the perpetrator may exhibit.

And the thing is, it's the same fangirls who excuse this guy, justifying his behavior. I've read some RIDICULOUS comments, such as, "he didn't punch her that hard" or "it was to the side of her face, just to disorient her." WTFFFF??? If the show is built to side with the heroine, to empathize with her, then these fangirls must hate women, enough to side with these a** characters. I could think of no other explanation. *shrug*
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Well it is a little more complicated than that but yes, the myth that started in romantic novels /fairy tales and then was perpetuated by movies & TV is that a 'good woman' can redeem a 'monster of a man' (in recent times this is a 'bad boy'). But yeah, the extreme cases where a female character is supposed to get passed the abuse, turn the other cheek indefinitely and redeem the abuser, reeks of misogynistic bullshit and it is often and shockingly, advocated by women (although the writers behind such nonsense are not necessarily women).

As an aside, 'Tom Keen' does have a pretty face and a good body... Another reason I am happy to have him around if not necessarily as a viable love interest for Lizzie...
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in one word: yep.
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In every big lie there is a kernel of truth, so yes, Tom cared for Lizzie.Otherwise he would not have been able to fool her for so long.
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If Tom and Liz were still together, then I'd be all over his back story, how he got together with Berlin, mission specifics, etc. Together, he was a secondary character. Separated, he's another version of Dembe and if we're going to do sidekick back stories, I'm WAY more interested in him than Tom.

What I certainly don't care about is his own delusions over how much he did or didn't care for Liz. He would need to be completely separated from reality and she would need to be the most insecure woman on TV. So, far as I can tell, the only thing he has to offer Liz are details about Red...and I'd much rather Berlin be the focus on that cause if you're looking for interesting, crazy Russian is Peter Stormare's wheelhouse.
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Who knows what the writers intended after Tom is shot, it just seems like another simple case of misdirection that could have two outcomes. Liz was supposed to finish him off, we expected her to at least look for a pulse (or check for breathing), but she did neither of those things. So perhaps she really believes Tom is dead, so the viewer is supposed to believe Tom is dead.

When I watched the finale, I assumed that Mr. Kaplan may have arrived and taken Tom's body away. We still have no idea how much time had expired between the shooting and the police/FBI arriving, because in the Blacklist world, no one pays attention to time,(thus instant flights between New York and DC ). Red's people may have not had enough time to clean every trace of blood, but taking the body away would protect Liz from being implicated in a shooting. But that setting was Berlin's henchman's hideout, so someone may have arrived and saved Tom. It's possible. Having been fooled by the writing team one too many times... I believe Tom is still alive and that will provide a nice shocking reveal during the fall premier.

But the writers have the luxury of time on their side now and can do whatever they want to do. The show runners may definitely be influenced by viewer sentiment. It's also hard to believe that Ford Motor Company would use a dead man (not just a dead man but a BAD dead man) to advertise their exciting new Mustang. Whether you like it or not, Ryan Eggold has enjoyed a rise in popularity since he killed Jolene. He has done more interviews than the rest of the cast. And he has been all over media, advertising the finale. Hard to believe that they would use a dead man to promote their popular show.

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The commercial? Really, that's just extra $$$ he made, good for him. I don't think any self-respecting actor will agree to do a commercial, unless it's some la la project for an european market. Do you think Spader will do a commercial? It's funny all my male friends just GROAN at the cheesiness of the commercial. And he's taken a bad beating from a lot of critics, too.

The rise of popularity...amongst women, yes. Men? Not really. In fact, just the ratings alone for the show, it garnered higher ratings during the first half of the season. And when Tom storyline imploded, with all the hype on Twitter and facebook, the ratings were gradually sliding down.

And why is it hard to believe they'd use a dead man to promote a show? At the time of promos, he wasn't "dead". You are using a bit of stretch in rationale, at best.

I'm looking forward to what the producers have stated, that they are GOING FORWARD in season 2. New season, new mysteries, new questions. Tom character no longer serves that intrigue for 2nd season.
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*ahem* James Spader is the spokesperson for Acura for the last number of years (since 2006?).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8clc1tagaMI&list=PL9B216A4698752F2D
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SMH at your research skills, ahahaha. Suppose people will buy phonebooks if Spader's voice was selling it. I'm crowning you the official Tom Myth Debunker. Wait...aren't you the "Tom shipper" as you called it? Does that mean you worship the fictional character of Tom? Where DOES the word "ship" come from?

In any case, they sell themselves for the money. Doesn't guarantee a career, let along longevity of character on a show.
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Yup exactly. There was way too much focus on Tom to kill him off and be rid of him.

Hmmmm I think, though, Tom wouldn't return in the premiere. I think they'd wait a few episodes at least and maybe until the midseason finale. That way the audience can still wonder if he is dead and it would be a bigger suprise return. Also unless there is a big time jump, Tom would need recovery time (but hey he can get Ressler's leg's medical team and be up and running way more quickly). Furthermore, Liz can move on with her life without him, be pulled in more my Red before Tom returns with info about Red and Berlin.
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"Instant flights between New York and DC" - and i was so sure they borrowed Scotty who engineered some handy devices. You know, when he wasn't busy spying on bad admirals and their super-spaceships...
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Two Questions:
1) Did Liz help Tom get help? She had to have, right? I mean she told Red he was dead, but clearly he is not so....What she bandaged him and gave him her phone to call Gina for help?

2) How sure are we that Liz was honest about what Tom told her? Liz said that he told her that her father was alive, but what if what he really said was that Red was her father? Liz is obviously lying about Tom's death, so could she be lying about this as well?
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Pretty sure that's more than two questions, but...

1. No indication got Tom help. Sure she had the right. I saw absolutely zero indication of Tom "clearly" not being dead. What if...? What if...? What if...? What if she used her head and followed Red's lead and got out of there as soon as that scene faded to black?

2. We're not, but we could "what if" it to death. "Obviously lying"??? Your preceding sentence was "what if she was lying", now it's obvious? Based on what exactly?

What did you see that would indicate, without wishing and supposition, that 1. Tom is clearly alive? 2. Liz was obviously lying?
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Based on the the lack of body at the end of the end of the episode and then everything I've read about season 2. Oh and the Mustang commericals when Ryan promised that Tom's true nature will one day be revealed. But maybe your right, maybe Liz wasn't lying she just left him there and assumed he was dead.
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Agree with everything you said, marcusj. Tom's storyline is DONE, not only to the viewers but to the writers as well (per Jon Bokenkamp). The character served its function, and the finale felt like the right place to send off the character. I mean, what more is there for him? To return as Berlin's henchman, but that role will be second banana to Berlin, presumably a scaled-down role. Tom/Liz marriage storyline is also done. There is no more "does Tom love Liz?" because the writers themselves have moved on to new questions. It would be redundant and regressive if the writers dwelled on those questions for 2nd season (and thankfully they won't). Sometimes even bada**es die.

Thanks for the post, man.
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If Tom is dead I will be FURIOUS, because of the frankly ridiculous way they treated him in the finale. Tom is a bad ass, no matter how you slice it. Jolene, Cowboy, fight with Liz, Spider tattoo man. He FREAKING OUTPLAYED RED on TWO separate occasions. Love him or hate him, he has always been sure of his course and in control of his actions. He was a force to be reckoned with.

I wanted (and I supposed I want despite my overwhelming dissatisfaction with the writers) Tom to proof himself a "green" character. That said, I would be much less upset right now if the writers had committed to "Tom as evil sociopath" and had Liz kill him in the finale. They could have had Tom be the one to kill Meera and/or Cooper. They could have drawn out the kidnapping scene with Liz and have them converse a little with Tom in all of his stone cold glory.

Instead what do we get? Tom unhappily kidnapping Liz at gun point and bringing her back to...dude pretending to be Berlin? Why? Its not like Tom knew that Red was there? Whatever, moving on. During the standoff, Tom doesn't come off as someone who is in control, and capable of making decisions. He is screeched at by fake Berlin, and lectured by Red. Even after Red shoots fake Berlin and drops his gun he is completely indecisive for five seconds, like this is his first rodeo. He get shot in a struggle with Liz for the gun. When he's alone with Liz and he's all "I'm sorry" and telling her things about her father and looking sad and Liz is just so mournful and I'm going "Really? Really?"

I think in their effort to keep it "ambiguous" for next season the writers have done the character a disservice. I can handle being wrong a lot better than I can handle being jerked around.
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I hear ya, but I will be FURIOUS if Tom somehow lived after getting shot 3 times. It would be the most cliched "no body, no die" soap opera scenario!!! Apparently only real death occurs in Game of Thrones. When they killed off Ned Stark (and also the Red Wedding), that was the real sh*t, right?

I'm pleading with the writers that fine, you fudged on the characterization of Tom. But don't resort to the cliche. You fudged it, but don't fudge it any further.
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The fact that once his motives became exposed the character became basically useless is enough to be furious at any resurrection...BUT...one would have a hard time surviving getting gut shot three times at point blank range when standing in a hospital emergency room, never mind in some run down part of town with no support system.

There a lot of reasons to want Tom to stay dead, but the suspension of disbelief required to believe he could survive his wounds is right up at the top.
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Ambiguous is 90% of that this show does, which is fine...most of the time. I'm just not seeing that in Tom. IF he's not dead, I won't say he's nonredeemable since I've shows pull some might impressive character redemption stories out of their asses...but he's awfully close. For me, he's like Fitz from Scandal, his collective level of douchebaggerie is too much to over look, even if he does something good.

Contrast him to Red, who unquestionably has done far worse for longer. I see him as the traditional anti hero. Ya, he's a bad guy, but there are aspects where you agree with, or can at least empathize, for the reasons he does what he does. For better or for worse, he's unapologetic.

I will agree that there was a disservice paid to Tom, but only in his deathbed, "I'm sorry". Where was that a couple episodes back when he had all the opportunity in the world to show contrition to Liz? I'm sure he was sorry...sorry he got shot. Beyond that, meh.

As for him showing up in the first place. I've got no reason to believe he'd ever seen or spoken to Berlin. And with member of the team being picked off, "Grab Liz and bring her here" doesn't seem like an unreasonable order. Red tracking down the location not being part of the plan.

Tom couldn't kill Red nor could he kill Liz and everybody knew it. He best option would have been to, once he realized Red had the situation under control, to let Liz go and scamper off like a punk ;)
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The show is not Ambiguous it is merely 90% confused and convoluted.
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Red is not Liz's Dad.

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how come you're so sure?
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Red being dad is only possible if they want us to believe that FBI is so stupid that after questioning liz and red's relationship countless times, they dint think once that "lets do a DNA test" and liz asking red so many times about her dad is so stupid that she dint do a dna test. . how hard is it to get reds dna. I bet thats the 1st thing they did. Whole FBI cant be that stupid . it will be single biggest fail ever for a tv series of this quality.
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standard booking procedure for FBI requires them to take dna and fingerprint samples for their records for a prisoner of this high level. They took his dna samples on the day he surrendered. they just never mentioned it.
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Soap opera rules: no body = not dead.

I think as long as Berlin exists, there's an excuse to have Tom around. I honestly can't decide if I want him to stick around or not.
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He's totally not dead. If the writers were going to kill him off permanantly they would not have had a seen where his body is gone. I agree he deserved to be shot though.
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I read an interview this morning where the producers said he wasn't dead but they didn't know yet what role he would get in the second season. Regrettably I can't find the link.

I want him to be dead to be honest. Not only because he has no use any more in the series but also because it will give many viewers a more neutral positive view of the show. There were too many people watching and (re)viewing the show based on a 'love for Tom' filter.
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"I read an interview this morning where the producers said he wasn't dead but they didn't know yet what role he would get in the second season."

THAT would be disappointing

"There were too many people watching and (re)viewing the show based on a 'love for Tom' filter."

I don't get it. I've tried, but I just don't
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What I meant is that there are a lot of people who have a crush on Tom and whose comments were Tom-centric a lot of the time.
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Exactly, I don't get it. He's a good lookin' dude, but good looking enough to suspend reason? I dunno about that. His behaviour certainly isn't admirable. Nope, don't get it at all.
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Now you had me LoL as I thought you didn't get me :-)
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As much as I would like for the Tom to be dead, I have to agree with Kate. He is likely not dead. I hope that he is, because I agree with you that it would be an Ugh moment. I think it is going to end up being determined by how good his agent is or is not.
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Um..Tom's not dead. His body was missing and why else would anyone else move him (presuming he didn't realize while sitting there, wait, these shots aren't that bad) and not move the other guy before the cops came.
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"why else would anyone else move him and not move the other guy"

Because one is an escaped felon from a downed plane that never should have been in US airspace with no connections to anybody and the other is the husband of a covert FBI agent who in addition to spying on her for the past 2 years is working for the man responsible for that plane in the first place.

I begrudgingly willing to accept that Tom might not be dead, but not because his body wasn't there. If he is dead, it would be beyond foolish to let the police find his body there as Liz's career, already on shaky ground, would be over.
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