The Fairly OddParents

Daily 7:00 AM on Nickelodeon Premiered Mar 30, 2001 In Season



User Score: 2302


The Fairly OddParents Fan Reviews (661)

out of 10
4,063 votes
  • Cool show!! Best show ever

    Love it forever.
  • Stop keeping this show artificially alive, Butch Hartman!

    People like him disgust me to no end. This show has long run its course. It's done everything creative it could possibly do. And what does this hack do in response? He puts it on life support by any means necessary just because he's that desperate to keep it alive.

    News flash, Hartman, The Fairly Odd Parents is now a vegetable. A complete shell of its former self. Do us all a favor and pull the plug already before you completely destroy all credibility this show once had.
  • I love FOP!!!!!

    Fairly Oddparents is my all-time favorite cartoon! Yes, yes, it has gone downhill because of those abominable characters known as Sparky, Chloe and Foop. Poof is cool with me, he's so cute! (and I'm a boy, and don't call me gay for that!) But still, FOP is awesome (i mean the first 6 seasons).

    The first five seasons were awesome. TRULY AWESOME, PURE AWESOMENESS! The first five seasons gave us gem episodes such as the Jimmy Timmy Power Hour trilogy, Fairy Idol, School's Out!: The Musical, etc. I liked season 6 as well (don't hate me for it). From season 6 to now - the series lost its spark. Now, it is godawful but I still watch it simply because I love the series so much. In season 8, there are a special episode called "Timmy's Secret Wish," that episode is awesome! It's the only decent episode from the new FOP.


    Seasons 1-5: 100%

    Season 6: 100%

    Seasons 7-10: 0,1% (because of the aforementioned episode. FOP lost its charm and spark and it is godawful and unwatchable

    But FOP is awesome. I don't write the plot because everyone knows that. Kill Sparky with fire, we don't need him!!!! And also, kill Chloe and Foop with fire as well! Remove these godawful new characters! Down with Sparky, Chloe and Foop! I hate them so much! Foop is actually cool but he gets too many airtime, that's why I hate him.

    Anyways, the first live-action movie, Grow Up Timmy Turner!, was great. But the sequels were just godawful. But anyways, I love FOP!!!!!!!!!! Yes I do, in general, great show.
  • I have a wish to make, I wish this was cancelled long ago

    This has got to be one of the most vapid shows today and well past its prime. It started off as charming, funny, and overall entertaining but now it depends on overused plots, jokes, and characters. In fact most of the original characters like Timmy's friends don't appear anymore and thus new ones were are added to continue using overused plots and jokes. Overall it is a rotten pain to watch and even seems to send the message that stuff like child neglect and abuse is amusing. Humorous is one of the last thing to describe it. It started off with Timmy making well mannered but short sighted wishes that had hilarious results to a total brat who now only really cares about himself. He deserves to lose his fairy godparents. Plus they added a baby who now takes up the bulk of the episodes hardly does anything and more recently added a stupid dog that is no different. Seriously why does Timmy need a fairy dog? He could've wished for a regular dog. Now Timmy has to share his fairy godparents with another kid which breaks the known rules of no sharing fairy godparents and other kids can't know about it unless they have fairy godparents too. I could go on but others have done it before and better than me. Nothing has changed other than the introduction of new pointless characters to focus on the same plots and themes.

    I really wish Butch Hartman and Nick would realize that this show is annoying and repetitive with deserved abandonment. Butch and Nick should focus on something else like how to revise and renew Danny Phantom for that show still has loads of potential. I never was a fan of this show, but if I was just reviewing the first few seasons I would rate it from a 4-6 but the newest seasons, episodes, and characters caused me to rate it way lower. This show doesn't even follow its own rules such as kids can't share their fairy godparents. I mean is there suddenly a severe shortage of fairy godparents? The plotholes have gotten so massive that you could drive a John Deere tractor (or other such large, lumbering, heavy equipment without trouble. Yes I know most shows have inconsistancies but this is at a whole new low level. The writers aren't just contridicting themselves of the show itself but they are now grasping at straws. I regret that I can't give it a negative rating because it deserves it. This is one of the most overrated shows out there. It's a chore to watch now. Seriously let it rest and move on.
  • What the fuck yall doing

    you guys are making this *** share his fish ahh hell naw yal best stop this shit before i turn super saiyan up in this shit so unless yall ***s want a ka-ma-ha-ma-ha-ma-haa you best make him have his fairys end of story
  • Should have stayed cancelled in 2006

    Seasons 1-5 were amazing. Back then The Fairly Odd Parents was one of the best Nicktoons ever created in Nickelodeon history. It was a true comedy master that kept viewers of all ages watching. Wether you were a kid, teen, college student or adult, the show was really entertaining and fucking funny as fuck. It relied on smart subversive humor, innuendo for the adults to laugh about, hilarious dialouge, making fun of celebrities, originality and entertaining plots, not to mention the characters were likeable and unique and all of them had their own charm which made them stand out.

    After season 5, Butch Bartman and the crew began to run out of ideas so then it was supposed to end, but greedy Nickelodeon wanted more episodes (They did the same to SpongeBob when Stephen Hillenburg wanted to end SpongeBob after The SpongeBob Movie) . The show was then put on hiatus for a year and a half. After Timmy Turner and the gang came back from hiatus to move into season 6, Butch Hartman and his team couldn't go on with their original characters anymore so they added a new character, a baby Dil Pickles ripoff named Poof who is Cosmo & Wanda's first born son (Cosmo gave birth to him Butch must've been fucking high!). Ever since then, the show relies more on childish humor and fart jokes about Poof soiling himself on screen and saging "Poopy!". The show was dying at this point which was seasons 6-8. Wishology should have been the series finale imo.

    Then when the show entered it's 9th season, they ran out of stories for Poof aswell. So instead of properly ending it, they just kept on killing it. They added another character! A Dog/Fairy hybrid who does nothing but chews things and causes trouble for his Timmy and his fairies, Timmy's friends, Timmy's family members and the people that live in Dimsdale. & what is his excuse for that??? He says "I'm just doing dog things!" The show is now a corpse rotting on a grassy feild.

    Finally, oh my season 10, they completely jumped the shark on a whole new level. First off,they got rid of the iconic opening theme and gave the show a new intro with different lyrics. & did something that extremely breaks all the laws of physics in all areas of the Fairly Odd Parents universe.

    They once again added another main character, but this time a female human who is Timmy's age. Her name is Chloe and Timmy is forced to share his Fairy Godparents with her. What the actual fuck??? Everybody knows that Timmy's fairies are supposed to be confidential to only him, nobody else no matter what unless they are fairies too or else they will have to be taken away forever. They completely rand dry out of ideas. This show is long dead and adding this whole thing with Chloe and replacing the iconic intro with a shitty new one was just setting the dead corpse on fire until it became a huge pile of ash.

    The Fairly Odd Parents was once one of the best Nicktoons ever created but has now died a horrible painful death, & Nickelodeon needs to friggin cancel it. They should have ended this show instead of Tuff Puppy, that had more potential.

  • Went off a cliff and now its a dusty video tape.

    This show was very funny as I grew up, but they never knew when to stop. When they ran out of ideas, they started throwing new characters in to fill the sad gaps of missing humor. Now its a pretty eclipsed show, you barely see an ad or an video game, nor a kid wearing a t-shirt. The show lost its spotlight. It used to be one of Nick's best cartoons when I was a child.
  • One of the best animated Nick shows I've seen!

    I still think this show is wonderful, even though it kinda changed since Poof and Sparky joined the crew. But... I still like them. The only thing I find uncomfortable is Chloe. Chloe being the new character on the show added fuel to the fire, and it seemed very uncomfortable to all the fans (including me). The show should've ended after the episode where Timmy's parents meets his fairies. Overall, I still love the show, but not the changes and the new direction.

    Sad to say, I do not like the new seasons, especially season ten now. The show lost it's charm just like Sponge bob by trying to be "new" and "hip" for kids in today's generation. What ever happen to tolerable good humor or even ones parents never seen to notice? What ever happen to good lessons at an end of a episode?
  • Um what happened too poof

    I mean like WHERE'S THE BABY
  • it ok not good anymore

    I use to love this show not anymore it gotten stupid and boring not I think it sshould have ended years ago.
  • Wow, this has really gone downhill.

    When I was a child, I used to love watching these shows and laughing along with every stupid joke that Cosmo and Timmy would make. I thought Super Bike was the coolest character ever. I watched this show, and cartoons like this were a big part of my life as a child. Since then, they've added some horrid characters and removed plenty of the good characters. Poof was an alright addition, I didn't mind the notion that fairies could have babies. What bothers me about Poof is that he's just a stupid baby who ruins everything, and that's basically his character. Would you really give a baby the power to grant wishes? Seriously? Also, Sparky has to the the WORST character idea I've ever seen... not even going to get into depth for that one. It's self explanatory. GET A NORMAL DOG, why does it have to be a fairy dog? /rant
  • It's alright

    Season 0 and season 1 were really good. I enjoyed the smart and funny humor it had but it seems after season 1, the show started to try to hard to be funny and it wasn't as good anymore.
  • This show should've stayed cancelled :/

    Last year, I defended this show as still being as fun as it was during its heyday; now after Butch Hartman announced that Timmy will be sharing his godparents, thus contradicting what was already established, I'm now convinced that Butch doesn't know what else to do at this point. Let start from the beginning: during the first few seasons, the Fairly Oddparents was a good show. It had likable characters, great jokes and creative use of the wishes Timmy asks for. The writing was hit or miss, but I really enjoyed the show as a kid. When it was cancelled to make room for Danny Phantom, I was a little down but contempt with what I had; then, like out of nowhere, Danny Phantom was given the ax so that Fairly Oddparents could return with pretty mixed results. I didn't mind the addition of Poof, but then Sparky came along and I couldn't help but scratch my head in confusion. If Timmy wanted a dog, why didn't he just wish for a dog? Anywho, when Butch made . Puppy, I was intrigued and I thought this show would replace Fairly Oddparents; it didn't. Instead, . Puppy was looked over and burned off on Nicktoons while Fairly Oddparents was renewed for another season yet again. Why is this show still going? It's not SpongeBob where you don't need to worry about comedy or a story arc, and it's not Rugrats where the concept is so interesting it never got old (even after 9 seasons); it has a basic formula that can get old over time (and it has). Each episode goes like this: Timmy has a bad day, he makes a wish to make it better, it backfires and by the end of the episode, he learns his lesson. Rinse, lather, repeat; that, and it sets up these rules only to contradict them in later episodes. Fairies can't be seen by humans? Timmy's parents spend a day with Cosmo and Wanda. Magic can't be used to cheat? Poof inadvertedly helps Timmy when a soccor game (I don't care that he's a baby, like Wanda said, "Cheating is . 1 child per godparent(s)? They're gonna introduce a character named Chloe to share Timmy's godparents. Seriously, we were find with Danny Phantom and . Puppy being Butch Hartmasn's next projects. Why? Because they were new, fresh, very good, very well executed ideas that DIDN'T FUCKING CONTRADICT THEMSELVES!!!!! It's best to stick with the early seasons of Fairly Oddparents; there may have been a few duds during those seasons, but it's better than watching one generic, unfunny and hypocritical episode after the other. I really hope the next season is the last so that Butch can make a new show from scratch instead of repeating or contradicting himself
  • Great Show!!!! Until Poof showed up

    nice i like this thanks for the show like this This show was very funny as I grew up, but they never knew when to stop. When they ran out of ideas, they started throwing new characters in to fill the sad gaps of missing humor.
  • Great Show!!!! Until Poof showed up.....

    I used to love the Fairly Odd Parents, especially the older episodes! My favorite episodes are Super Bike, Channel Chasers, Ruled Out, That's Life and Self Life (the one with Tom Sawyer)

    This show was so great. Not only was it funny, but it was deep, funny and educational as well. There was always a moral in each and every episode of this show. Like in Channel Chasers, it was about what happens when you grow up in life and in Ruled Out, Timmy wished for his parents to care less.

    This was the golden years of the Fairly Odd Parents!

    Now when the Fairly Odd Baby movie aired in February 2008, and when Cosmo and Wanda's baby was born, the show began to decline and the show just became really really stupid!

    It seems like now every episode revolves around and about Poof and nothing else and the dumb ass things Poof does. Have you people ever noticed that none of the original characters like Chester, . Elmer or Trixie or even Vickie (the evil babysitter) ever appear on this show today at all? What has diminished this show the most is the significant shift in the characters' personalities. Ugh.

    Also, Timmy went from being a really really nice kid to a selfish spoiled brat who bitches out of his ass when he doesn't get what he wants.

    Cosmo went from being kind of dumb, but smart and clever, to completely stupid, to the point where it's just too pathetic to even be considered funny.

    Wanda went from being a role model to Timmy and a caring woman to a naggy old lady who complains and nags about everything.

    It's like really, do the writers think that if they change the characters into total dimwits it's going to make the show better. Seriously? That's what it seems like, but that isn't how it works.

    I never see the other characters anymore. Like Francis (the scool bully) you never see him anymore. I hardly ever see Chester or the smart kid . or Timmy's other friends on this show anymore, Trixie, Elmer, Sanjay or any of them) either. None of the original characters appear on this show anymore. You know why?

    Because every damn episode revolves around Poof or Mr. Crocker, but 75% of the time, it is about Poof.

    Secondly, the plots are the same crap over and over again. Timmy gets into a dumb situation, Poof does something ridiculous, Cosmo acts like a moron and Wanda just bitches and complains at Timmy for every little thing. Whatever crap happened is gone and there is always a lame gag at the end.

    It seems as though The Fairly Odd Parents is going down the same road as Spongebob is. Getting worse and worse in quality.

    They got to end this show already because it is not worth it anymore. The writers are clearly running out of ideas.

    Nickelodeon does not care about the viewers at this point and all they care about is profit. As long as they are making money, they do not care and they will keep garbage on their network going, because that is what it comes down to in a nut shell. Money!

    They need to end this show already. It should have ended 5 years ago, but it didn't and that is what bad about it. Ever since they brought Poof along, the show went downhill and nearly episode since revolves around Poof or that stupid dog they just added recently too, which further diminished this show, as if it wasn't enough already!

    The writers and animators are running out of ideas and the show is deteriorating and it is sad actually because the Fairly OddParents is such a good show and it stinks to see it just dying and dying, but never officially dying! I can just see it will be cancelled soon because of a non-existent audience because already the show has become non-existent (in my point of view) So who knows.

    Do not watch any of the new Fairly Odd Parents (2008-present) unless you want to lose all of your intelligence levels. Watch the classic, gold episodes of the show (2001-2006) and do not even bother watching the new garbage episodes because they are not worth your time. Period.

    The title of this review speaks for it's self. "Great Show!" Until Poof showed up.
  • The baby dog happened.

    This show used to be one of the best shows on Nick,until things just got baby messed up everything and is so hard to take care added a dog that messes up even more and the story turned into an awful only recommend for you to watch the episodes that were made before 2009.
  • I wish this show would never end!

    It has been going for 9 seasons and has gotten renewed for a 10th season and up to now its been great! I hope it can atleast go to 300 episodes!
  • The Fairly OddParents

    First seasons are good the rest suck
  • this show needs to end

    This show needs to end. It's been on since 2001. And since that time, like most shows do, it has gotten worse. the characters has been flanderized, the episodes are formulaic and predictable and they have changed much within the show continuity. While, this wasn't too bad for the first few seasons, it just seems lazy now. They have added not one but two new really unnecessary characters in Poof and Sparky and it seems like they are trying to connect rather than just connecting with an audience. I will now go more in detail with the problems of this show

    At first Timmy was a charming, sweet good natured kid. Sure he could be a bit of a jerk but he always apologized If he went too far. Now he is a stupid idiotic jerk who never listens and gets himself into trouble which he has to use magic to get out of. Yeah it was fine at first but how long can you do this with it becomes boring? He was never smart, but he was as stupid as the latter seasons make him out to be.

    Cosmo and Wanda were good for a while too, they had their flaws, Cosmo was an idiot and Wanda nagged a lot, but they loved Timmy and would do ANYTHING for him. They would always protect him and be there for him, even when his own parents were not. Now they seem to be almost neutral to him, sometimes going WAY too far in pushing him. I mean scaring him for scaring poof was NOT COOL. In one episode they can't remember his name.. WHAT Cosmo I get but Wanda come on. I know that was supposed to funny but it came across as stupid. Cosmo is now a borderline idiot with little redeeming characteristics and Wanda seems to be a know it all.

    Timmy Parents have gone from loving him to seemingly hating him back to loving him again. While some might think this is character development it really isn't. Character development Is when a characters has a notable flaw or problem and then works to solve that problem throughout the run of show. I kind of have always thought it was stupid they were called Timmy's Mom and Timmy's Dad but it used to be ok as they were not major characters. Now with many episodes revolving around them it is really annoying.

    Poof, I don't know how to feel about him. On one hand it is nice to see Cosmo and Wanda be parents and he can be rather cute. On the other hand he can be annoying and serves either little purpose or too much purpose. The episode that focus on him are not very good and take away from what they show should be about Timmy. However compared to Sparky he is good.

    Sparky oh good god do I HATE this character. Frist of all he doesn't need to exist in show. Timmy wanted him as a pet but aren't Cosmo, Wanda and Poof already his pet goldfish, I mean that's how the most of the other charters think they are right? So what does he need a dog? Of course that is not the main reason to hate him. He is just plain annoying to be point of being unbearable. His voice is annoying and he can he only exists for comedy relive which is rarely done good.

    The episodes always followed the same sequence. Timmy has a problem, he used magic to try to solve it, it seems to work but then the magic makes the problem worse and he unwishes the wish. Now in addition to that many episodes involve Cosmo and Wanda losing their wands and it seems like they are running out of ideas.

    The shows continuity was been so screwed up that it is not funny. Frist Cosmo and Wanda had wands that were powered by a big wand in Fairy World which was plunged into socket. Then their wands were at least semi-self-powered and had to be recharged. In one episode they get wet and they had to get news ones and in another it turns out Mr. Crocker power the Big Wand. That is too many changes. They could have as least done better job of explaining all of this. But no your just expected to go along with it

    I do still find this show to be semi-watchable. It has not sunk as low as new SpongeBob and it is better than most of nick's new shows. But it still is not as good as it could be. this show has run its course and it did a pretty good job but it needs to be over. No show can last`14 years and be as good as it was in the beginning and this and SpongeBob are prime examples of that


    I think the show is great till you added the annoying dog, he has no need to be there, Timmy already has pet goldfish/godparents. I have stopped watching because now its just stupid and annoying...
  • Goodbye Forever, 90's Nickelodeon.

    Fairy Oddparents was one of those shows that people really liked during the years 2000.

    It was funny, plots were good and it was often filled with everything that would make you like this show.

    Sadly, now we have this excuse for a show. Now I'll tell you guys why.

    This show ended in 2006. It went out for a while, then came the leap of fate.

    They brought it back on with the Fairly Oddbaby movie, starring Poof for the first time. THAT was when what could have been a funny memory, was transformed into what we have now. This show died like Spongebob has a year ago in 2004. Timmy is a fucking brat, Cosmo is really stupid, Wanda is always nagging and the plot is always focused on Mister Crocker or Poof. The humor: from being funny and likable, it turned into a bucket of vomit and unlikable. Seriously, Nick, what happened?

    I knew this channel was turning from blue to grey when Spongebob, Fairy Oddparents were falling down and when Jimmy Neutron was canceled. Now we have Sanjay and Craig, Breadwinners, failed Spongebob and failed Fairy Oddparents. We do not want this. We want it the way it was before.

  • Seriously. What happened to this show?

    Anyone who had ever watched The Fairly OddParents almost 10 years ago knew how amazing this show was. It had good plots, it could be pretty action-packed at times, and it was funny. During that time, it probably could have gone on to become one of the greatest cartoons ever made. Unfortunately, I stress "could have".

    This show was supposed to end after season 5, but a year after they initially cancelled Fairly OddParents, The creators decided to bring it back. Well, lets just say what what we got wasn't that good. Once Fairly Oddbaby premiered I knew this show had jumped the shark. And it wasn't even the introduction of Poof. The humor that made this show so good just died with that movie, and the characters did a complete 180 from their initial personalities. Timmy became a spoiled brat, his parents went from caring about him, albeit part-time, to practically not giving a crap about him, and Cosmo actually became completely annoying, rather than kind of annoying, but still mostly funny. And I swear, he got even dumber, which I didn't think was possible. The only people who have remained the same have been Vicky and Mr. Crocker, except Crocker has now gotten more screen time.

    The worst thing to come out of the newer seasons is without a doubt that embarassing live-action movie "Grow Up Timmy Turner". I still can't believe that Drake Bell went from Drake and Josh, one of the best shows Nick has ever created, to that abomination. And then they made sequels! What the F***, man!

    The Fairly OddParents has unfortunately suffered the same fate as SpongeBob SquarePants. It was a great show that was brought back after being cancelled, and once that happened, the show went into the crapper. If I were rating the show before Poof came along it would be nearly perfect. But alas, the newer seasons have made the show kinda terrible.
  • Old dog, old irritating tricks

    Great show. Use to be fresh but now you know the end is near when they gave the show to the dogs. In other words the show went down hill when they added the dog. Like the Scooby Doo show when they added Scrappy.
  • it comes on in morning now

    they come on in the morning now so if kids like it they can watch it well friday they had a 1 hour and 30 minute spongebob! on weekends i dont know if it comes on in the morning though.
  • The Old Ones Were Great. The New Ones Are Awful!

    I will tell you my ratings for each season.

    Seasons 1-4: Great. This show has funny jokes, funny characters, and great animation. 8.5/10

    Seasons 5-6: Okay. This show has been going downhill ever since It's A Wishful Life and Fairly Odd Baby aired. But it's at least watchable. 6/10

    Seasons 7+: Awful. Poof was okay in Season 6. But in Seasons 7, 8, and 9 he is very annoying. Sparky the Dog is even worse than Poof. He is exemely annoying. 3/10

    Let's hope Season 9 is the final season.

    This show was made by the great Butch Hartman. This show used to be a great but now the characters have been flanderized beyond belief. Timmy has lost likability and you know a big part of the show was Timmy learning a lesson but you cant keep that plotline for 13 years. And now they're getting rid of all the side characters just to add new characters that are annoying and pointless. We don't see much of Chester AJ Sanjay Elmer (fun fact that's Butch Hartman's real name), Francize Dark Laser, Chip Skylark, The Crimson Chin, The pixies, or anti Faries besides Foop. Timmy has gone to a point of no return. So is Cosmo and Timmy's Parents. Wanda is naggy. Poof and Spark are annoying. Vickie has become to insane and has lost interest. The only character that I enjoy is Crocker because he is still wacky and zany as always. However his episodes sadly have his annoying mother and the him arguing with her has gotten old. Also since he is the villain he has become a punching bag. Its sad such a shame such a great show with a great cast could become such a horrible show. Also don't even get me started on the live action movies. They had so many chances to end it. Fairly Odd Baby, Wishology, Fairly Odd movie Grow up Timmy Turner, and Fairly Odd Pet. This show needs to be cancelled. But you know what the sad thing is. This one of the top 5 modern Nick shows. That's really sad. I'm done!
  • What happened?

    The Fairly OddParents was once a great show. It has clever plots, interesting characters, and funny episodes all the way around. I'm not sure whether it was the introduction of Poof, or if it was something else, but the show has just lost its charm. Too much of the attention focuses on Timmy's Dad or Mr. Crocker. Whatever happened to characters such as Chester, Trixie, Tootie, for crying out loud, what about Vicky? She's still in the theme song as the main antagonist. And, of course, the characters have been dumbed down to all hell. Timmy got stupider, so did Cosmo and Timmy's Dad, and Wanda got extremely boring. Poof? I don't really know about him. Speaking of which, where is he? He hardly appears any more. Sparky. Don't even get me started on Sparky. He is annoying, irritating, disgusting, everything that is bad. And they keep using the same jokes over and over and over again every single episode! I'm not saying the show is TERRIBLE, it still has decent plotlines, okay characters, and mildly amusing episodes, but I'm just saying that the show in general has gone rolling down the mountain of good. That's all I have to say. 6/10.
  • WAS a good show

    This show was a really good cartoon until 2008 when the baby came the show went down hill Some people say why do you hate poof he's just a baby? well hes not hes just a waste of animation space. for the next season was horrible it was all about poof all he ever did was cry and poop and be annoying. and the episodes after that they just rushed and made it worst. Then the writers knew that the show was going down the hill so they added a dog it was the worst idea ever. So when that season which i call hell they made really stupid episodes Timmy got more spoiled and greedy and they got rid a Vicky the source of his fairy's. and the next season OH GOD horrible it was the worst Ever. Thanks to the dog and baby if they make a movie when they both die that would be cool but now the shows ruined better luck calling it magic full house just cancel it its over its ruined.
  • Not very good anymore

    I used to love this show a lot until they rebooted it in 2008. So yeah, not good anymore
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