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The Following S02E15: "Forgive"


As far as anyone can tell, Claire has only done one cool thing in two seasons of The Following: kicking Luke about the legs and shoving him into a small room while she escaped. In the end, it didn't really amount to anything (except for giving her a way to find Joe Carroll alone) which is why it's the only cool thing she’s done. It yielded a zero-sum situation, which is no small feat considering Claire's heretofore infamous knack for only causing chaos and melancholy in all that she surveys. For her to do something and have it not be the total ruin of best-laid plans is the best we can hope for.

The Woman Who Was Supposed to Stay Dead, the same one who volunteered to be kidnapped on a number of occasions seemingly just to give Ryan Hardy fits, rose up near the end of the season to obliterate the momentum of what had been an interesting, if not particularly compelling, run of episodes. While The Following's second season was far from perfect, it’d found a balance that Season 1 lacked. Instead of letting the flawed scheming psychopaths slither away from capture with the aid of bumbling law enforcement, Season 2 had more to do with subterfuge and a complete undermining of that force. Somehow, it’s easier to accept a mole thwarting an investigation than it is to watch supposedly trained police officers derp around obliviously before ending up as human knife blocks or close-range target practice for Joe Carroll’s untrained militia of serial killers.

The Following has always traded in the police and federal agency clichés that we’ve all grown accustomed to in media. Scanning through security camera footage to find a grainy face only takes moments. There are no consequences for vigilantism (in fact, you might sometimes get your own special task force as a reward). You can enhance anything. This is simply the superhuman ability we’ve come to expect from the FBI. But with the upgrade to the feds' IQs out of the way and the writers’ room finding ways for Carroll to slip the handcuffs without relying on a botched raid or gullible cops, Season 2 was able to focus on other things that happened in the show.


Like those creepy twins! Luke and Mark seemed so important at the beginning of the season, and the possibility of a merger was interesting (though less interesting than two psychotic families clashing against each other like mob bosses fighting for territory). But even though the Dead Ringers were super creepy and utterly skilled at making an entire audience hate them and their petulance, their story disappointingly petered out by the time Carroll usurped his cult of Second Wave followers. There was a battle, sort of, where Lily’s army of mercenaries raided Korban and then Hardy, by infiltrating the cult, took out a good percentage of those fools. But the story never lived up to the promise of what could have been. And that was kind of a theme for the season.

I’m not sure what the writers were planning for Mandy, but it couldn’t have been that she would hang out with Carroll and whimper for most of the season before being needlessly killed. She was the source of ire for Carroll for about 15 minutes after the twins had their way with her, but there was really no fallout. Hopefully, The Following initially had a plan for Mandy outside of “diversity,” but it was handicapped by the different changes in trajectory. The promise she showed was quickly swallowed by the twins. The twins’ promise was (mostly) swallowed by the cult. And then the cult was then swallowed entirely by Claire.

These developments wouldn’t've been so problematic if they hadn't come about so unceremoniously. Like Lily Gray falling stiffly to the ground after Mike shot her, with no pageantry or narrative gravity. Or the church scene in “Forgive.” What had once been The Following's dominant storyline, where these cultists were fleet of knife with nary a second thought to real-world ethics, ended with the lights shutting off and the SWAT team killing every single one. Obviously, if a cult went up against a SWAT team like that without equal weapons or any leadership, that’s what would happen. It felt like the end of that arc for the series was put out of its misery because Hardy and Carroll were heading toward the new narrative hotness. Sorry, blood cult. You’re old news.


And, what’s worse, it was all for Claire. UGH, Claire. Looking at Natalie Zea’s face when Weston went to visit her in Witness Protection was enough to make my eyes roll straight back into my head. She was much better off as the haunting spirit that guided Hardy toward vengeance. Keeping her alive seemed like an unnecessary wrinkle in a series where our main characters already had plenty of motivation. Both of them getting distracted by Claire’s safety was too much, especially after having to watch Claire actively work to make everything worse. “Stay in Witness Protection, Claire, because it’s safer for you.” NO. I DON’T WANNA. “Hey, Claire, how about you don’t tell the world you’re alive and you stay in a safe place so you can’t be used as a hostage?” NO. I WANT TO TALK TO A REPORTER AND GAS MY SECURITY DETAIL. “Hey, Claire, despite you being completely terrible, I still love you.” NO. YOU’RE NOT ALLOWED.

Within the space of an episode, everything that’d happened prior to that point was basically reduced to filler. Sure, we were introduced to the twins and the extraordinarily hard life of Michael Weston, but everything Joe Carroll had done previously was consumed by Claire getting kidnapped. Hardy turned on a dime from moving on (albeit with a woman who had to become a victim for him to like her) because Claire arrived and blew everything up. I don’t love this show. I couldn’t even say I like this show (honestly, I usually tell people to stay far away from it). But I felt bad for fans in that moment, when the twins magically showed up at the inn and used Claire as leverage. That was disappointing.


However, it did create the opportunity for what The Following has basically been working for from the beginning: Carroll and Hardy working together toward a common goal. I liked that idea better when it looked like they'd be joining forces against a common foe in Lily Gray. But The Following went in a different direction by resurrecting its so-last-season objective of bringing the two together. It was fun to see them react to each other despite the nag inside of me repeatedly insisting that these two wouldn’t work together because they'd compete with each other. I can just hear Kevin Williamson in my head, telling me that the reason Ryan Hardy didn’t shoot Joe Carroll at the end of "Forgive" was rooted in the men’s mutual respect for one another, their hidden admiration. Or not-so-hidden admiration. The ride to the twins’ mansion, where Carroll was sitting in the back of the cop car driven by Hardy, was basically Carroll’s Kevin-Spacey-as-John-Doe moment, complete with some knowledge of which Hardy was ignorant.

They rescued Claire and, with Mike and Max’s help, Hardy saved the day while also being able to have Carroll arrested. Mark got away with Luke’s body (though Luke has taken more bullets than a victim of the Valentine’s Day Massacre this season, so who knows whether or not he’s alive), but The Following pushed the reset button on Carroll and Hardy’s relationship. It seems like it’s all set up for a very Silence of the Lambs situation, where Carroll may help Hardy go after Mark next season. Because, as long as the show keeps getting new seasons, Hardy is never going to get that future everyone keeps telling him he deserves.

It was a low bar, but The Following Season 2 was better than The Following Season 1. Whether that made it a good show is debatable. And in that debate match, I'm squarely on the "no" side. The Following is still ridiculous and convoluted; it demands such daring leaps of faith before viewers can suspend enough disbelief to think that any of these events could ever happen, even in the fantastical story world the show has created. But there was marked improvement, development for the important characters, and a table-setting for something different next year. Because we can’t have Carroll escape the clutches of law enforcement again to start another cult next year. Can we? Right? Praise Joe, I hope not.


NOTES

– A case could be made regarding the lack of importance that characters of color seem to hold on The Following with regard to the numerous deaths on the series. For example, Jamel got blasted by Hardy but earned barely a mention, while Lily, Luke, and Mark blubbered about Giselle being stabbed. Sami recieved the same amount of sympathy. And Carroll left Mandy for dead. At least Emma got to fight for her death. The others barely had a chance. By the end of the season, we had a serious white-out. I understand keeping to horror cliches, but that’s one we probably could’ve skipped.

 Not much was earned this season, but I really liked what the writers did with the Max/Mike relationship. Particularly since both of those fools deserve some love and affection. Of the people who remain on the show, those characters are the ones I've found myself most interested in, and I'm surprised they could keep that relationship flirty and passionately concerned for the entire season without succumbing to the temptation of rolling around in the sheets. Hardy found the time to make it with Carrie Cooke but his staff—the woman who worries incessantly about her uncle and the man who suffered a great deal just by being associated with that same uncle—barely had time to gaze longingly at each other in between finding ways to rescue the old man from himself. But The Following gave the couple some moments without being over the top. And that’s something to praise on a series like this.


– If you don’t count the mercenaries Hardy shot while defending himself out of Korban (who may've all been wearing kevlar), Hardy and Carroll's body counts were just about even. In fact, Hardy killing Carroll would’ve pushed him ahead. For Hardy: Jamel, Giselle, Sami, the Huntsman, one of the henchmen charged with getting Luke out of the hospital, and the guard in the crowd at Korban (possibly the guard outside of Korban, too, but we never really saw him kill the guy). For Carroll: the preacher in Arkansas, the girl in the cage, the Russian, Julia, Micah, Preston Tanner, and Tim. I was, of course, tickled that the show mentioned how Hardy has killed more people than Carroll, cumulatively.

– The season finale had its meta moments, as Kevin Williamson is wont to include. Meditations on Hardy being “the good guy” and the aforementioned “who’s the real serial killer” debate filled the dinner scene. By the time we're done with Williamson’s oeuvre, I’m pretty sure we'll be able to apply for college credit at the University of Phoenix or something.

– Really? You get Charles S. Dutton and you give him five minutes of screen time? Seeing as how I’d generally rather be watching reruns of Roc than The Following, I see that as a crime.

– Face-touching is very important in this show. Mark freaking out about having his face touched forced me to notice how many times it happens. It seems like any time a serial killer wanted to swindle, con, or display any kind of emotion, he went for the face cradle. Emma was super into it.

– Much like the cultists on this season, whenever a main character on this show dies, I feel like they’re going “home,” free from the bonds of this pit. You’re free now, Valorie Curry. Fly away, little butterfly.

– I like Tom Cavanaugh and I respect him for trying new things as an actor. Is it so wrong that I just want Ed back, though? Or at least for someone to make it available for me to download in a quality format and not as a VHS dub? Please, NBC. Just do it. Come on. Ten dollars if you do it. TEN BUCKS, NBC.

– So what do you think is in store for next season? Is Luke really dead, or is he the horror villain cliché of psychopathic invulnerability? Who did Mark get into the car with? How will Hardy get pulled back in? What will Max and Mike's 'ship name be? I'm going with Mikey-Max. But I'm open to suggestions. 


What did you think of The Following's finale, and the season as a whole? Who do you think was driving the truck? What are you expecting in Season 3?


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 5/18/2015

Season 3 : Episode 15

138 Comments
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I have to say that this was a awesome season final. Claire has finally been some use this two seasons...she killed Emma big +! Thanks she got caught by the twins, one of them is dead now and Joe is catch...but then in the end...she was like thanks for saving my life and everything, but we should go different ways...not nice...
Ofcourse the next season will be about the twin who lived...whooooooo
and with a bit luck we will see Joe once in a while...
the best part was the kiss in the end...like she said FINALLY!!!
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Although, I also find it strange that this review was written by a non-fan, he had some really good points that I agree with. I'm a big fan, but was kind of let down by season 2. Where can they go with season 3 and have it still be interesting?
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Why would this website decide to have someone who HATES the show write the review for its finale? That's a ridiculous decision and while I am also critical of the show, I like it, and I want to read the thoughts of someone like-minded. No one who hates the show is reading the article, so it's just annoying and a poor choice on the part of this website.
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It is very telling that while you're watching this show you're thinking about how you miss Roc and Ed...i mean that shouldn't be the case when one is watching a show that's supposed to be about serial killers. right? I don't think about aodrable characters like Ed and that big oaf Roc when i'm watching better shows like Hannibal and Criminal Minds. This show has such a great premise, come on a dude that fostered such a killing culture that he was repsonsible for creating a cult of serial killers and the cop that can think and 'undertsand' them (like Will Graham's empathy).... but somehow that went all Ferengi on us (In Star Trek TNG the Ferengi were supposed to be evil and feared creatures like the Klingons were to the original but somehow they ended up as comic relief mostly) ...i really have high hopes for this show even tho 2 seasons in i don't think a game changer is happening anytime soon.
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I always thoght the series nwas a one trick pony and season two proved that.
Its time to turn the story line to a new page.
I dont want to see anyone back for season three but Ryan, Max and Mark and oh yea Charles Dutton.
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Ok! This episode was one of the best season finals i have seen...!
The suspense was killing me...
Claire has finally something to add in this series..she killed Emma and thanks to her eventually the whole show went down.
Loved how Joe and Ryan worked together this finals..
Joe was really ready to die...but Ryan didn't shoot him...good for him. Loved the speech he gave Joe about never have to see him again.
Mike kissed her! Finally like she said herself...
All this trouble...two seasons long and for what...Claire left Ryan all over again...grrrrrrrrrr..
So next season will be about Ryan and the twin who lived???
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I like the show, but making a season 3!!?
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Totally agree. I love the show, but the story is done now.

There's an interview with Exec producer online, saying that in Season 3 there'll be new villains, and Joe won't feature much at all. That's the nail in the coffin for me, as James Purefoy hamming it up was the best thing about the show.

Should've renewed Almost Human instead.
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I'm so over this show... The storyline is a bore.. I'd rather seen a prisoner/agent corporation. Ryan try's to find some sort of a sadist and goes to joe for help.. Instead of this storyline
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God this show sucks. What I expect from Season 3 other than the obvious that there shouldn't be a Season 3, come clean writers and make this a COMEDY. As a comedy the Following isn't half bad. As a suspense drama it's a laughable joke. I already suffered through Season 8 of Dexter, such a farce, it's hard to imagine people still putting up with this dog doo
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"As a comedy the Following isn't half bad."

lol. Well said! And I agree.
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season 1 was quite good. name one suspense/drama that is actually good...there is not a lot, with good suspense you got even less.
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A 'ship name for Max and Weston, Wesax or Maxton?
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Okay, this might be my silly Comment of the Year, but wouldn't it just be possible if Jack turns into a serial killer?I mean, TPTB made it clear, especially during this finale that both men "are alike" and as Joe predicted, Ryan was incapable of killing him. Lest we forget, as well, that Joe is a major manipulator and that all that has happened during those two season could have been to bring Ryan up to that edge? Any thughts?
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It is not silly at all. Sleep killing ? spilt personality killing ? I am throwing ideas. we all know that Kevin Bacon would be a great killer (e.g. Hollow Man) I want a show worthy of him. Season 1 was good enough but season 2 was disappointing. If they had showed Lily had Claire and both of them work together to save her for at least half a season it would have be great. Joe & Ryan have great chemistry and they should have used that instead of keeping them apart. I really cant stand the actor who plays Joe. So I am happy that he is done.
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The problem is, there are basically two effects you can get from sudden deaths:

1) Audience going "WOW! I did not see that comming!" and be on the edge of their sit.
2) Audience going "WTF? You just killed them? So what the heck am I wasting my time on this character development arc?"


Sadly, this show always seems to go #2. The best example is season 1 when they killed Jacob. They built a whole arc of him going from being just a henchmen, to his involvement in the bisexual triangle, to his innocence for not taking a life, to his best friend asking him to be his first kill to... Just randomly die in the end.

I agree that the FBI stupidity was far less felt this season, but frankly this show has done nothing but take away the very few characters here or there that were of any intrest.



Here's are some random thoughts:
* Last season Ryan was dumb enough to go at Carrol without the only backup he had (Mike). Now Carrol is being equally stupid by killing the only person that came to rescue him?

* So... Ryan has nightmares that Marc would come and kill him? Seriously?
If anyone is on Marc's hit list wouldn't it be Mike? Now that he knows he killed Lily

* The way Hardy constantly talk about Claire... Does he even remember that in the start of the show he was married? He had a wife an never mentions her, every time someone mentions that he is in grief it's always about Claire never his wife. In fact in all the times Hardy pressed Carol he never mentions "You killed my wife"

* This mess actually got renewed for a third seaon? Seriously?
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I liked this review a lot because it pokes fun at a show we had all accepted as ridiculous yet addicting.

Claire actually did two cool things. She killed Emma remember?

Because we can’t have Carroll escape the clutches of law enforcement again to start another cult next year. Can we? Right? Praise Joe, I hope not.

I am really not so sure about that. I would really not be surprised if it happens yet again. The show feels like bringing us in circles again and again.

My favorite scene for this season was always between Hardy and Carroll but they had very little. The scene in this episode thrown in with the twins were the best all season.

The twins pointing out that Hardy had more body count than Carroll and Carroll acknowledging it was what we at TV.com had been saying here all seasons long. I loved it that Carroll even pointed out Hardy started a Vigilante cult with Weston and his niece as the followers. So funny.

I think the writers are learning to make fun of themselves too.

I want to say stop but I know I will be back next season. I promised I will opt out if they do a 22 episode season. Williamson is smart in keeping in short every season. 14-16 episodes is just the right amount of craziness.

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I think the driver of the truck was the attorney for Lily's estate and the moneyman (maybe the twins' Dad too) - Mark now has that huge fortune at his disposal and he can keep his twin's head in a glass bell jar, and 'praise the head' - recruit more new crazies like momma Lily did.
Bitch all you want people about the random acts of silliness and REALLY?!? throughout the season, but give the director props for the way that Sam Underwood is filmed in the "everyone tied to chairs" scene. It is a redeeming factor of “Forgive”; the quick cuts at deft camera angles are impressive, and Underwood gives his finest unhinged performance. It really is impossible to think that the twins are the same guy. *applause*
I think they have to bring him back for season 3 since he clearly was the best actor of the season.

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The finale was basically "meh." Nothing particularly monumental: a semi-happy ending regarding the Max/Weston hook up; a building block for next season with Mark on the loose and a mystery accomplice aiding him; Joe back in prison which leads to the obligatory breakout or the obligatory "Joe helps Ryan" plot; Claire continuing to be Claire, which can only spell more danger for her next season as well as those with whom she's acquainted.

I agree with others regarding the writers never appearing to know how they wanted to develop this season, except for the inevitable Ryan/Joe team up during the episode's "climax." The only evident justification for that sequence of events being the writers' assurance that it was something the viewers undoubtedly wanted to see and something for which the planets and constellations had magically aligned. It was trite, glaringly predictable, and while the dialogue between Ryan and Joe was amusing, it was heavy-handed as if merely to excuse Ryan not killing Joe once and for all.

Claire Matthews is the definitive buzzkill of this series, mostly on account of how she "waffles" from one mood to the next depending upon the circumstances: she initially wanted to inform Ryan that she had survived Molly's attack in order to save him the emotional pain of having lost her; then, she comes out of hiding only to eventually break his heart all over again, the primary purpose of which was to take the life of Joe Carroll, something she failed to accomplish. So, exactly why did Claire return?

Suddenly, Claire being the person who had helped Mark suddenly makes a lot of sense!

This is essentially what one could label a "safe" finale; it wasn't especially daring or "risky" and the perspective of the writers moving forward seems to be, "We'll figure it out when we get there." They wasted a lot of characters throughout the season as usual, spent too much time on others, wandered aimlessly from one storyline to the next, and, in hindsight, threw in a significant quantity of "filler" content which ultimately didn't amount to much.

But it's cheap entertainment, so I'll probably be back for season three (I'm masochistic, I know).

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Btw I think Lily Gray's death scene was pretty well done. That's the whole thing with this show: everyone dies unceremoniously. Lily, Emma, the other twin, Claire (temporarily), Mandy's mother, Mike's father, Jacob, Paul, Leslie Bibb's character, that dude Joe shot in this episode after being rescued by him... Debra was probably the only one who got a whole plot centered around her live burial and ultimate death, everyone else just gets shot and dies, no fuss. I, for one, like this aspect of the show.

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But the main triangle of Ryan, Joe and Clarie will never die no matter how many times they are shot, stab or bombed.
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I really need Grumpyclown's missive on that pile of crap of a season Finale. Joe better have The Beard back next season.
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It ain't a review until Grumpy bestows upon us his comments sparked of wisdom and clips of glory.
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I wouldn't be so quick to proclaim Mandy dead. As far as I remember we never saw the body, and for all we know she could have been driving that truck. She did have a think for Mark (Luke?), didn't she? I know they have done some pretty terrible things to her but this is the same girl who killed her own mother because she believed in Joe so much, and now she has a pretty big reason to be pissed at Joe and therefore cause some major trouble in season 3 so... my bet is on Mandy as the mysterious truck driver.
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They found mandy dead body, right ? It will be their grandfather.
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Remember their little dinner party?
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No...? That happened? Well then ignore my comment :) I tend to forget about stuff when I only half pay attention to tv shows.
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I loved the scenes between Joe and Ryan . It's a shame we had to wait a whole boring season of lame story lines which led nowhere. Like, the religious cult , it's obvious it meant nothing for Joe. He never had an actual plan he just likes the attention. Nobody cared about Emma's death, i guess it wasn't that important. Claire is dumb dumb dumb ! Rejecting Ryan... Really , Claire?? At least Max and Weston can have their happy for now ending.
I would love to see Ryan and Joe solve murders together, they are fun together and both actors make the most of their roles.
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The whole Claire thing is so annoying. She comes claiming she can help Ryan and messed up his life. She has the audacity to reject him. She could have tried killing Joe herself without Ryan's help. But NOOOOO !!! She is just a attention w***e.


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Them solving murders together is actually a really good idea.
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"Hopefully, there was a plan for Mandy in the show outside of “diversity” but it was handicapped by the different changes in trajectory."

To see what I mean earlier, compare The Following to Sleepy Hollow.

With SH, there wasn't an episode wasted, or a plot line dropped, or a narrative thud as someone was unceremoniously killed.
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That show is much better with the whole diversity thing, too. One of the leads and two of the supports are black and they're all given decent material. Not so much Orlando Jones at first, but it was worth it once they started fleshing out his character and backstory.
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as soon as the honda came driving by i was like
"OMG, it's not twins...it's triplets!"
I don't know exactly why i thought that, but after some more thinking, i thought about their names..
wouldn't it be great if there were not only Luke and Mark, but also a John and a Matthew??
just a thought..
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Most people aren't going to have any idea what that reference means. I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 people couldn't tell you the four gospel writers.
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I think it was Carrie in the car at the end. I always suspected that something was up with her.
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Well, Sprague Grayden was listed in the Fox press release as appearing in the episode, but she never appeared as far as we could tell...
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oh noo i hope not!
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If you don't even like the show, why are you reviewing it? Anyway, although I expected more from the finale, I'm still gonna keep watching.
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What does reviewing a show has to do with liking it?
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I think the reviewer should be objective, that's all. No disrespect.
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It's not a matter of disrespect, it's simply that you are factually wrong.

A review is supposed to say if something is good or bad.

In fact, when people review shows they like then they are *less* objective not more.
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Unbiased means that you don't have something to gain for or against it. Meaning that you aren't getting paid from the producers or that you are working with their competitors.

If someone hates a show and can explain *why* he hates it, that is his job as a reviewer. That is the point of a review in the first place.

Same for loving a show and everything in between.
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But you do agree that a review should be unbiased, right?
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Somebody has to warn people of the danger.
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"Hopefully, there was a plan for Mandy in the show outside of “diversity” but it was handicapped by the different changes in trajectory."

And that's what I don't get. They only did 15 episodes. It's mostly Williamson and a handful of producers who do most of the writing. Shouldn't they have this all planned out? I felt like I was watching a kitten chase a cloud of butterflies. "Ooh, look. There's one! But... that one's prettier! I'll go after that... oh, wait, that one is a nice shade of blue."

"It felt like the end of that arc for the series was put out of its misery because Ryan and Joe were heading toward the new narrative hotness."


Every arc in the show felt like it was put out of its misery on behalf of setting Joe and Ryan up for the endgame. What purpose did Korban serve that Joe finding more of his followers in hiding couldn't have done? We got Gregg Henry as a Joe Sr. and he was wasted in two episodes. I didn't like Joe Weber, but his character was ignominiously killed, along with MIcah's wife. As noted, Lily was shot dead with no narrative gravity.

"especially after having to watch Claire actively work to make everything worse."

There's a reason grumpyclown calls her "The cockblocker." ;)
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I just ranted elsewhere in the comments. I think they are hoping we think it's "ZOMG UNPREDECTABLE" but all it does is just getting us to feel "So why did we bother trying to figure that guy out if he just got killed so suddenly?"

Jacob was the best example of this. Why did they waste so much screentime on him if they were just going to kill him so randomly?
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Despite Clare not being familiar with the concept of the hero gets the girl (stupid woman!) I'm quite happy for the show to end here as they've caught Joe. Another cycle of Joe escaping and Ryan on the chase seems a stretch too far.
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According to an interview with the Exec Producer, Joe won't be in season three much. It'll be 'new' villains with the focus on Ryan's story, not the killer's.

I loved season 2, but doubt I'll watch the third.
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Sounds like CSI: Kevin Bacon.
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Thanks to the "ratings", we have a season three while so many other better shows got cancelled.
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Would have prefered The Following ended (much as I've loved it), and Almost Human was renewed instead.
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Must be the Grumpyclown effect.
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From the beginning of the season I knew Ryan was goint to catch Joe, and then need his help in a Hannibal Lecter/Clarice kind of way. Lets face it, if James Purefoy is out, the show is dead.
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Next season I would like to see Ryan mentor a group of tough inner city kids and inspire them to enter the all city dance competition. I think he could use a change of pace.
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Or move to a farm town and teach high school kids how to rebel against the local pastor and learn the wonders of dance.
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would have loved to see Kevin do a little whirl and drop to a split as they put Joe Carroll into the Marshal's van - Whooooo!

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I think it could have been Tilda (the fat girl from Joe's Korban cult) in the truck that picked up the twins at the end.
Reason 1: Tilda was shot in the night vision scene but the shooter seem to hit her in the body. The camera focused kinda explicitly on Tilda after the lights came back on, the first shot of her showed a pool of blood around her middle/torso, the second from another angle showed her head with no blood around it.
Reason 2: Joe effectively abandoned the cultists in the church to their fate once he heard about Claire's predicament. This could have caused Tilda to switch allegiances if she did survive the church.

I actually hope I am wrong about Tilda, as I really want it to be Emma in the truck. Don't know if they will bring about another big "resurrection" in Season 3 though. The sheer level of injury Emma sustained suggests no, but the amount of unlikely stuff that happens on this show suggests they will revive Emma. Also on the pro-resurrection side, they never indicated what became of Emma's body, but Tweedledum and Tweedledee were the last seen around it, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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I'm guessing the writers have absolutely no idea and haven't even decided on it.



And most likely, next season, if they even continue this plot, it's will probably be an entirely new character.
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Even with this show I don't buy that a wounded, overweight woman could have just slipped away and got herself patched up well enough to drive out into the middle of nowhere. Plus I don't remember it ever being established that Mark knew Tilda even existed and I don't see how he could have contacted her even if he did, assuming she even had a phone.
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But how would Mark know Tilda? Why would he have her on his speed dial?
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So we leave season 2 with Emma dead (we think), Claire heading back to Arizona after telling Ryan to get a life, Mike Westen and Max getting together, Joe Carroll headed back to jail (we think), everyone from Korban dead, everyone from Lily's group dead (except Mark), Luke dead (we think), and some mysterious stranger whose phone number Mark knows who was willing to pick the two of them up in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere. Unless he was concealing a bat-signal flashlight somewhere...

Season two was better than season one in that there wasn't as much gory violence for the heck of it, every death seemed timely. I think the fans were actually supposed to be rooting for the FBI this season instead of shaking their heads about how inept the FBI on the show was and hoping the real FBI wasn't that stupid. We got more info on the main characters this season, which I always like. I like knowing where people came from and what made them the people they are today.

I must say that my favorite character this season was Luke. His enthusiasm for everything weird, evil, and just plain f'd up was very entertaining to watch! Some of his one liners were awesome.

Mike Westen is still not worthy of his name, but he's getting there.

So, a new cult next season then?
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it has to be cancelled.
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Already got renewed
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Season 2 was a complete let down. There is a very good reason the ratings were down by almost 1/2 of what season one had. The season finale was just poorly done, not compelling and it was just outright boring. What a shame, this show had such potential but it jumped the shark when they brought Joe Carrol back this season. The writers should have left him dead and moved on to a new "big bad" for this season. I could go on and on but the ratings from season 2 speak for itself.
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I loved this season and can't wait for season 3! I'm glad Max and Mike finally got together. Ryan and Joe working together was awesome. Kind of wanted to punch Claire in the face for dumping Ryan in the end, though. And I think the mystery driver was Ryan's reporter friend/lover. We'll see...
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Oh and I think next season Joe is going to be like Hannibal Lector character. He will help Ryan catch Mark from prison.
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Sooo, now i have to see the season all over again to see how has that car.
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I think the show has become just so utterly ridiculous that it's laughable. Yet I'll still likely watch Season 3 to see just how far fetched it will actually get.
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agreed. ;)
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It was that FBI agent's ex lesbian lover with the kid. The one Joe stopped byc to see when he left the backwoods.Played by Leslie Bibb I think.She was the one driving.
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she shot herself in the head
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Maybe she's a zombie and they're planning a Walking Dead crossover.
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You now I read your comment and laughed
Then realized that actually makes more sense than everything else that show did.
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i don't know why but this comment made me laugh. lol
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yep she dead
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I still don't understand how Mark was able to get his brother's supposedly dead body from a crime scene?
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Because in the magical realm of hollywood, apperantly once the camera cuts off, a person can disapear.

Yes, it's incredibly stupid. But just for the heck of it, I'll play devil's advocate.

It's their house (as they claimed). It's possible they had some secret room or tunnel in there.

Though of course as I said, mostly the writers just expect us to not ask questions.
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fireman's carry
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yeah, I don't understand that either. I always saw him as kind of a wuss but, desperate times...
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I liked this season, and I liked the finale. Ryan and Joe working together might have been the best thing the show's ever done, something I never really knew I wanted until it happened, but it was great. Tbh I half expected Joe's prison truck driver to be a Follower so he could escape again, and then I half expected Mark (or Luke? whichever twin is alive at this point) to wait for Ryan in his apartment... so I was happy that neither of those incredibly obvious things happened. But I do think it would have made for a better cliffhanger if they actually revealed who picked Mark/Luke up at the end. This way we're left guessing who it could be, instead of having a great "OMG, THEM???" moment... let's hope we actually get that in the season 3 premiere.
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Season 3-
Joe is in jail and he recruits all of the prisoners to become followers and they all start killing off all the guards. All the prisoners are free along with Joe and they continue to terrorize NYC. Since Joe knows Claire is alive he tries to find her so he can see his son Joey. Ryan is trying to stop all of the mayhem but there are just too many followers to keep up with.
The twins are both alive and they called the reporter to pick them up in the truck. She is blackmailed by them and is forced to get Ryan back to their lair so they can torture him and get to Mike Weston for killing their mother.

I still think Emma is alive.. I think she could also be a possible driver of the silver Honda pick up. If she is it's because she wants to get back at Joe for not choosing her... She feels that Joe will always choose Claire over her even though there is no chance of Claire ever taking him back.

Claire could also be a little twisted since she pretty much turned down a life with Ryan. She told him at one point that she would be with him and now he's left all alone and she just walks always as it they had just had a first date. Strange....
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If Emma survived all that, I am not watching season 3. It's already ridiculous enough.
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hey come on ... where is your sense of humour ! :P
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"Joe recruiting the prisoners and kill the guards"
you cracked me up... go join the writers team... I think this is going to happen though...and when it happens, we'll all be pleased about it... Hail to Joe

I have this horrible feeling that the driver who helped Mark is Emma too...
I am so gonna kill someone if that is really her!! "Oh God i am turning into a follower"

Yes I liked Joe/Ryan thing although it was so horribly insane and so stupid. But this is what the show is all about
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So by this logic, Luke and Mark watch Emma get "killed" by claire, leave her without medical treatment, get insanely psycho because she "killed" Emma and afterwards they take Claire to the house while Ryan and Joe are still at the church then confront them and finally after all the shootings going on Marc calls up Emma (still wounded) to come pick him up even though it must have been like an hour tops?


I don't know what bothers me more -
That's it's so freaking stupid

Or that it still makes more sense than everything else that happened on this show.
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I throw logic away when I watch this show...
nothing make any sense there
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My crazy ass guess for who was in the truck is...Mark and Luke's father.I don't think they ever really established if he was actually dead or not.They just made reffrence to it,i think.
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Well, Caroll did hint out that they lacked a father figure...

But I'm still betting on the writers having 0 ideas themselves.
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Assuming you're right about him not being dead (I don't remember), this is the only theory I've heard so far that makes sense.
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Or maybe it was his other brother. They weren't twins but Triplets! Dun duh duhhh...
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lol
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I think it's that FBI lady who disappeared from the show a few episodes ago. Who knows. With so many twists in this show it could be anyone.
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Whats interesting at the end. Claire professed to be together with ryan forever when joe got caught. But at the end no to ryan. Everyone knowing how twisted this show is. Could have been claire who picked up the twins at the end.
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yeah right. the twins wouldn't have risked playing russian roulette with Claire if she was on their side.
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Or maybe they didn't? Who is to know, maybe the game was rigged all along?

Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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It was the Head FBI lady that was stabbed in the truck
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I hate to admit it, but this show went from a show I was totally hate watching to a show I almost sort of look forward to weekly. Season 2 was much better than Season 1, if only because the FBI looked slightly less inept, and Joe and Ryan's characters were developed a lot better (at times I felt like they had a tongue in cheek bromance even). This season was also a lot more philosophical in the sense of without evil there can be no good, and the gray area hero aspects. I am curious how Season 3 will turn out, though it might take a Homeland-like reboot to get things back on track.
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it is not that "Season 2 was much better than Season 1" that make us look forward to it; it is the way it fails us and pleases us and how insane it is.

what philosophy are you talking about? it is just got more crazy and showed us how making a cult of killers is so easy

but u know I am looking forward next season
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I think season two was better because of our expectations. We all know what kind of show we will be having after season one.

Before I watch the season one just by looking at the trailers, I was hoping for a hoping for a smart mind games kind of show between the two leads.
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oh I hoped so too but that was long time ago
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I wanted joe to be killed by whoever, doesn't really matter. I think his story is done. Seems like Ryan will be messed up beginning of next season again. Hopefully Claire isn't back either. The niece and mike are great, although I was half expecting mike to be killed in the last few minutes to leave us with a cliff hanger.

In other news, these guys must keep the phone companies in business the amount of burner phones they go through haha
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a smarter FBI?? REALLY??
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It was the reporter! I never trusted her!
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interesting.
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Possibly
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I think it was Claire in the truck.
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No
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Did anyone else have a weird voiceover telling us what was happening the entire time? I am trying not to read too much b/c I don't want to spoil the finale for myself. But there's this woman's voice telling me what's happening on screen. I checked my settings to see if I'd accidentally enabled something, but no. I have no idea what this is. Is it part of the show and will it be revealed later on? I am wondering if anyone else is experiencing this. It's very strange and I've never had anything like this happen before.
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That voice over was probably 10 times more exciting than the episode itself.
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Sounds like video description for the blind. If it doesn't happen on any other show, maybe your local Fox station mixed something up.
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Thanx! Yes it looks like they definitely did get something mixed up.
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Season 2 was much better than Season 1 and 3 looks to be even better. Claire appears to be out finally and Joe will likely play a Hannibal Lecter-like role from behind bars. I like his niece and Mike as well. I just hope the villain of the season is more dark and twisted. Just not sure how they can come up with a new murderous cult so easily.
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Thinking maybe Carrie in the truck (?). Initial thought was Claire. I still wonder how the twins knew where to find Claire when she went to the hotel where she and Joe got engaged. Went back to review the whole show and there was no way they could have known she was going to be there.
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What about the FBI women who was stabbed she lived so I reckon it was her in the truck
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The finale was just... nothing. really, nothing happened. All the shocking deaths occurred in the previous episode or two. This was just a boring non-event where there weren't even any spoilers. Everything happened about the way you'd expect it to happen.

The big draw for next season is... the wimpy brother on the loose. Ooh. Which means we'll sit around waiting for Joe to escape and Claire to return. Is anyone really tuning in to see Mark go on a rampage? (no doubt carrying his dead brother's body along with him)
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At least last year's season finale had a cliffhanger of two potentially lethal stabbings. This season it was Ryan having a patented Kevin Williamson "I wake up from a nightmare of something horrible and realize it was a dweam of extwaordinary magnitude", and someone we don't know picking up Mark. We don't know anybody that knows Mark that is still alive, so why should we care who this mystery person is.

We knew Ryan wasn't going to get a happy ending. We figured Max and Steve from W13* would get together. We were pretty sure they weren't going to kill off Joe. really nothing happened that was at all surprising.

* Yes, I know it's the "other" Ashmore, but when they air both shows at the same time, it must lead to some interesting chats at the Ashmore Thanksgiving get-togethers.
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"Hey, what were you doing last Monday, Shawn?" "Well, I got to shoot a couple of homicidal maniacs, engaged in a confusing chase around yet another big frickin' house, and got to kiss a girl. What did you do, Aaron?" "Well, I chased a wizard around a courtyard and got to have my co-actor make gay jokes about my character."
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