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Red John's identity

  • Avatar of Ace_o_Diamonds

    Ace_o_Diamonds

    [1]Oct 18, 2010
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    It's Brett Partridge, the forensic specialist from the pilot episode and the season 2 finale. I'm not sure if somebody's already laid this out, but here's why:


    1) The people who write The Mentalist like to be tricky (which makes some of the episodes predictable since you learn to expect the unexpected), so it makes sense for them to put Red John in the pilot so they can say at any point that Red John has been on the show since the beginning and get people questioning the main/recurring cast.


    2) Partridge appears in two cases of murder involving a fake Red John. The real Red John would of course be interested in investigating and eliminating "cheap imitations of his work," and Partridge's job allows him to get close to the crime scenes.


    3) The two biggest clues for me are the fact that Partridge has made more than one appearance despite not being a very developed/important character and Red John's voice. Both Partridge and Red John's voice have that weird, nasally quality.


    4) I don't remember who Partridge works for, but if he works for the CBI then he could've easily killed his accomplice Rebecca after she killed Bosco's team. It also makes sense how he'd know that the Red John case was re-assigned to Bosco. If he doesn't work for the CBI, then it's even more suspicious that he was present for both the imposter Red John cases, assuming they weren't geographically close enough.


    5) William Blake, the poet who wrote the poem Red John recited ("Tyger, tyger burning bright..."), did an oil painting called A Brace of Partridge.


    I may be wrong, but I think a huge part of solving these kinds of things are thinking outside the framework of the show and thinking what the writers would do.

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  • Avatar of Beecharm3r2

    Beecharm3r2

    [2]Nov 7, 2010
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    I suppose those clues could point to him.

    I personally think that Red John is Patrick's father. Here are some reasons...

    1) The note left on Jane's door by Red John before finding his wife and kid murdered read "...your lovely wife and CHILD." Jane often refers to his daughter as his CHILD. Instead of just saying 'my daughter', he says 'my child'. People tend to pick up traits from their parents as well as their language patterns.

    2) Jane referred to once that 'all great con artists are sociopaths'. He thought of his dad as a great con artist so he himself believes his dad could be a sociopath.

    3) I always think of a crying clown's face when I see the bloody smiley face. Some people have even referred to it as the 'crying smiley face'. Many carnivals had logos of crying clowns... Its just a possible tie to Jane's past.

    4) Jane's father clearly was clever in setting up the cons, but also could have resented and been furious with Jane for leaving. In the flashback of Jane working with his father at the carnival, his dad even stated that he does all the work, Jane just had to go in and pretend to be a psychic. That sounds like resentment to me. Plus, Jane's dad didn't care at all about the sick little girl. He felt no remorse that she was sick, or that they conned her.

    5) Red John seems to have a huge hate on for Jane and likes to toy with him...seems to me more than just because of what Jane said on tv...maybe it goes back further. I believe Jane knows Red John well and that's why RJ hates him so much. Plus, I just think that RJ is someone Jane would never want to kill. I have a feeling that when it gets to the point that Jane finds RJ and could kill him, he won't...because he doesn't want to kill his own father. Besides, the revelation of who RJ is, in this case, would be devestating to him - something RJ would like to see...Jane's devestation again.
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  • Avatar of Gojjo

    Gojjo

    [3]Nov 12, 2010
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    I completly agree with you Ace. When I saw the last episode of season 2 and he appeared I thought it was a bit weird that we hadn't really seen him before so why bother introducing him like that. But then I recently rewatched the very first episode and there he was again which made me really think he must be Red John. He's not a big enough character that he will attract attention but at the same time when Red John is revealed it needs to be someone the viewers have seen before or it is just going to seem like a random nobody. Red Johnalso needs to be someone who has some sort of an inside on the investigation, how else would he have known about the copycat-killers in the season 2 finale.

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  • Avatar of rei_vilo

    rei_vilo

    [4]Nov 12, 2010
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    Actually and personally, I don't care much about Red John. He is more the reverse side of Patrick Jane, with similar gifts, but for unpleasant purposes. The "Ball of Fire" episode clearly shows that many people could have been antagonised by Patrick.

    Shall we know who Red John is? I don't think it's necessary. The was cliff hanger between seasons 2 and 3 was just grotesque.

    So let enjoy Patrick solving cases, knowing that everything isn't black or white, but in grey nuances.
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  • Avatar of lostcause78

    lostcause78

    [5]Nov 18, 2010
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    Well I like to speculate.



    Tonights episode made me wonder if Red John is not 1 or even 2 people, but an entire group of people? Don't know why but the "secret" the killer shared with Jane at the end made me ponder it.

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  • Avatar of DanielRichards0

    DanielRichards0

    [6]Nov 19, 2010
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    Ace_o_Diamonds wrote:

    It's Brett Partridge, the forensic specialist from the pilot episode and the season 2 finale. I'm not sure if somebody's already laid this out, but here's why:


    1) The people who write The Mentalist like to be tricky (which makes some of the episodes predictable since you learn to expect the unexpected), so it makes sense for them to put Red John in the pilot so they can say at any point that Red John has been on the show since the beginning and get people questioning the main/recurring cast.


    2) Partridge appears in two cases of murder involving a fake Red John. The real Red John would of course be interested in investigating and eliminating "cheap imitations of his work," and Partridge's job allows him to get close to the crime scenes.


    3) I don't remember who Partridge works for, but if he works for the CBI then he could've easily killed his accomplice Rebecca after she killed Bosco's team. It also makes sense how he'd know that the Red John case was re-assigned to Bosco. If he doesn't work for the CBI, then it's even more suspicious that he was present for both the imposter Red John cases, assuming they weren't geographically close enough.


    4) I may be wrong, but I think a huge part of solving these kinds of things are thinking outside the framework of the show and thinking what the writers would do.



    By some of your reasoning it could be the Psychic chick that called out Red John on TV and then dissappered while under police protection, she's been in 2 episodes and what better a twist then RJ turning out to be a woman, at least that's what my sister thought when she showed up a second time, Me I'm leaning more toward Janes Daddy, does anyone know his first name if it starts with R then his initials would be RJ, just saying.
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  • Avatar of Shreela

    Shreela

    [7]Nov 20, 2010
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    lostcause78 wrote:
    Tonights episode made me wonder if Red John is not 1 or even 2 people, but an entire group of people? Don't know why but the "secret" the killer shared with Jane at the end made me ponder it.


    I originally thought it might be Kristina the psychic lady because the masked RJ from S2's finale was kinda short for a man. But after hearing the flaming-killer-cop quoting Blake's Tiger Tiger poem, I'm thinking RJ has minions.


    I remember watching the show with Jane as a kid at the carnival, but for some weird reason didn't catch onto the man being his father, and never thought much about it until I read this thread. So my new theory is Carny-Dad is RJ, who manipulates minions of serial killer wanna-be's -- maybe they have a private encrypted network they communicate through (I read a serial murder mystery that the serial murderers would post their kills on a secret forum!)

    Edited on 11/20/2010 7:01am
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  • Avatar of storepatter

    storepatter

    [8]Nov 20, 2010
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    Gojjo wrote:

    He's not a big enough character that he will attract attention but at the same time when Red John is revealed it needs to be someone the viewers have seen before or it is just going to seem like a random nobody.



    Its still going to seem like a random nobody since most people don't remember him.
    And why does it need to be someone we haven't seen before? Personally I don't care about this element of the show, just a McGuffin.
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  • Avatar of Beecharm3r2

    Beecharm3r2

    [9]Nov 21, 2010
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    DanielRichards0 wrote:

    By some of your reasoning it could be the Psychic chick that called out Red John on TV and then dissappered while under police protection, she's been in 2 episodes and what better a twist then RJ turning out to be a woman, at least that's what my sister thought when she showed up a second time, Me I'm leaning more toward Janes Daddy, does anyone know his first name if it starts with R then his initials would be RJ, just saying.


    Patrick's father's name is Alex (I think). I'm guessing Red John means something else altogether rather than someone's real name.
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  • Avatar of ZoneDragoon

    ZoneDragoon

    [10]Nov 25, 2010
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    Nice thinking there.

    I think the chances are quite high Red John is someone we all know very well, and personally I hope its someone of the Main Cast just to shock us.

    As far as multiply characters being Red John i would have to say no. Red John is 1 guy that manipulates people to do his dirty work. I'm quite sure non of them acutally know who Red John is.
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  • Avatar of arabiandaze

    arabiandaze

    [11]Nov 26, 2010
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    I totally agree with you. After watching almost all the episodes before the pilot show, I had a bit of a case study on red john. Then upon seeing the pilot episode for the first time, the young forensic examiner seemed to fit the profile. It makes alot of sense for him to be red john considering that they both sound very similar and he has the technology at his disposal to know about janes business.

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  • Avatar of BeIb1

    BeIb1

    [12]Dec 11, 2010
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    When JJ LaRoche was introduced my blood froze, mainly because i remembered him from the movie identity.


    Through the episode i kept thinking, that the series producers wouldnt use such an actor as the real Red John. and then again maybe they just would.


    Apart from the actor it was the character that i felt was not an unlikely Red John. he is very astute but doesnt let that on. he is very like Jane, what both acknowledge and the questions he asks could be the ones Red John would ask in order to find out if Jane (and Lisbon) knows something new.


    Also the fact that Jane goes outside to get information is not unlike him, but in this context just was another point in that direction.


    JJ might be too heavy to be the same person that "rescued" Jane from the art-movie-serial-killer-students, but what the heck its just a feeling i have. And even if i am wrong the episode was really good and got me guessing again. Before that i didnt think to often about RJ anymore because i am not sure how the solution should come about and i really like watching the shows without any RJ references.



    As to the theory of PJs Father being RJ, i wouldnt understand why. Nothing i have seen so far suggests it. I think the father is despicable but no murdering mastermind.


    The forensics guy, well i dont think it is him. i can follow the reasoning but i just think that he works there and one should see some character or other more often because, how likely is it that they always get to go to new places/districts and not stumble over the same people because they all work in the same area.

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  • Avatar of BeIb1

    BeIb1

    [13]Dec 11, 2010
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    agh, after perusing some more threads i am somewhat dissuaded from my opinion some minutes ago. but as i said, it got me guessing and i was engaged in the show not just watching. so, good show.
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  • Avatar of Lccf

    Lccf

    [14]Dec 23, 2010
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    After watching "Red sky in the morning", I'm convinced Red John is Jane's twin brother ( hence the "fearful symetry" quote ). No sign of a brother in the childhood flashback, granted, but maybe they were separated at birth for any reason. OK, maybe that's just because I think Simon Baker is so good he deserves to play both Jane and Red John !
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    agent_0042

    [15]Dec 23, 2010
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    Lc - there's a fanfic out there that proposes that Red John is Jane himself. Totally untenable, I know, but very interesting reading.
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  • Avatar of TylerA46

    TylerA46

    [16]Jan 2, 2011
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    The writers have no clue who Red John is, they make him up as they go. You can't fit RJ's personality, behavior into one person, because the writers just make up new RJ stories as they go, they haven't created his whole character beforehand.

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    kissemissee

    [17]Jan 4, 2011
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    It haven't watched Mentalist in a while (3 season starts today where I live), so I don't remember this guy, but your theories sounds really interesting!
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  • Avatar of zurimov

    zurimov

    [19]Jan 9, 2011
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    TylerA46 wrote:

    You can't fit RJ's personality, behavior into one person.



    Ah, but wouldn't that the twist of the Mentalist?
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  • Avatar of dedbeare

    dedbeare

    [20]Jan 13, 2011
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    My suspicion is that, while Red John COULD be Jane's rather disgusting father or the nasal-voiced forensic investigator Brett Partridge, and interesting reasons have been given for each, or even a separated at birth twin, which could be cool but seems pretty far-fetched, I'd like to suggest Brett Stiles. A villain such as Red John deserves to be portrayed by a good actor, and Malcolmn McDowell is legendary, having played some pretty scary characters over the years going all the way back to A Clockwork Orange. Malcolm McDowell just radiates duplicity. Also, as the leader of the Visualize Self-Realzation Centre, he knows a lot of people and has both power and influence - things which might keep him abreast of ongoing investigations and perhaps access to CBI headquarters either personally or through henchmen. Brett Stiles' character has been written in such a way that he presents himself as being somewhat shady, and someone who appears to have a special connection to Red John, especially when he helps Patrick Jane find Kristina Frye, a character both Stiles and Jane are drawn to. In the episodes where Brett Stiles has been shown, he and Jane have had a cat and mouse relationship, not unlike the one that Red John and Jane have.
    Sure, this is all circumstantial, but it would fit nicely with the show in that the character is already known, is high profile, could know what the CBI was up to, and is an intelligent and cunning antagonist to Jane's character. Assuming the show lasts a couple more years, there would be plenty of time to establish a back story and motivation as to why Stiles might have killed or have had others kill Jane's wife and child.
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