The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

"Family Meeting" (S07E13) Official Discussion

  • Avatar of LII2

    LII2

    [121]Dec 3, 2008
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    I will always feel sorry for both Lem and Ronnie, they were the real victim of the Strike Team.
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    krussell47

    [122]Dec 4, 2008
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    I've seen tons of series finales that were just god aweful but this one was spectacular. I really felt bad about Ronnie being the only guy of the team taking the fall for all the crap they pulled and to see Shane off himself and his family was just hearbreaking but definately inevitable. And then Vic loses his kids to witness protection thus destroying the only human side he had left was just clever. It had the vintage Vic fashion and to see him in the end almost come to tears, you start to think that they have all finally got the best of him, but then a little grin squeeks across his face and you know that he is just starting the newest chapter of his corrupt life.
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  • Avatar of rkd1234

    rkd1234

    [123]Dec 4, 2008
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    It was the best final episode of any show that I've ever seen (I think The Nanny might have had a good finale, but I was around 7 at the time).

    However, I don't really have much sympathy for Ronnie. I always felt he was a bit of a prick even though he looked like a nice guy and had trouble with women, he told Lem that he hopes Vic kills Shane in season 4, that was before he knew they had ever killed a cop and he wanted Vic to kill somebody who had been his friend for years. Also, Ronnie didn't care about the injured Armenian when they robbed the money train. Shane told Vic what happened, Ronnie said to leave him or something like that and Lem said he didn't want the guys life on his conscious which is when Vic decided to help him.

    The whole strike team are victims but I think Shane is the biggest victim of all, although probably that's just because he is my favourite character from The Shield and maybe from any show.
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  • Avatar of LII2

    LII2

    [124]Dec 4, 2008
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    I don't see Shane ever being a victim, I'm glad that he killed himself but felt for his kids being killed, except for MARA ( I've always hated her from the very beginning). Shane to me was always on the verge of losing control, Basically the victim besides the kids was Lem, poor Lem had to be killed by stupid Shane. Lem was the only member that basically had a common sense in his mind.
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    lynna12000

    [125]Dec 5, 2008
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    I'm hoping that they decide to do some movies to pick up the tale in 3 years time. Imagine the fun Vic would have gotten up to.
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  • Avatar of rkd1234

    rkd1234

    [126]Dec 6, 2008
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    Probably no fun. Vic alone couldn't hold a story as interesting as this, what I would find more enjoyable would be a Shield movie about the 4 months between Co-Pilot and Pilot. Or better yet, it to be left as is.
    Edited on 12/06/2008 5:15pm
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  • Avatar of Eldryn

    Eldryn

    [127]Dec 15, 2008
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    Hopefully there will be no (tv)movie. It was perfect the way it ended this way, not tieing up all ends (hate that anyway, when everything is clear - please Lost, don't do that either!).
    Breathtaking finale. Sure, Vic's end wasn't that special or anything (already saw this in several movies), but still great. Afterall it's worse than prison, since in prison he probably would have felt even comfortable.
    I just can't believe it's over forever.
    Although I watch series for decades, the first real one was 24 (starting the new generation of actually good movie-like series), and The Shield is the first I think which I watched all the way until the very end (24, Lost and Co haven't finished yet. And sure, I did watch AD e.g., but that still was different, since it got axed and not finished properly)
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [128]Dec 15, 2008
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    24 is SO BAD now. Just DREADFUL---weak writing, cliched situations, over-the-top and unbelievable plotlines(the US President harboring a secret conspiracy that no one knows about??) Even Jack Bauer has become kinda boring and trite----YES we get it, he's the badass golden hero who has NO other agenda than saving his country no matter how much pain, misery and hardship it brings him. Jeez, can a character be any more one-dimensional? It should have ended after Season 4, when the show actually made some sense and had halfway decent story arcs.

    How can anyone compare 24 to The Shield, a show that has consistently remained excellent all throughout??(although I will admit there have been weaker episodes) There's just no comparison. None.

    It's obvious the makers of 24 don't give a s*it about the quality of the show anymore, they're happy as long as they can rake in the fat checks, and they'll keep the show going as long as they can do that. Bleh.

    Edited on 12/15/2008 9:45am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of therealcromar

    therealcromar

    [129]Dec 16, 2008
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    24 used to be comparable to the Shield but it went downhill fast. A revolving door writing staff has a lot to do with it. The Shield has kept one and only one gifted auteur in very tight control of the series from day one, and it shows. The reason so few series can run for seven years and maintain steady quality is that there aren't many Shawn Ryans out there who stick with it all the way through. Some change showrunners, or executive producers, or gut the writing staff, or let the actors take over...etc.

    I agree that 24 should have ended at season 4. The ending to that season was the perfect way to end Bauer's character (he fakes his death and goes into hiding). Season 5 marked a decline in the quality of the writing, though it was at least action packed and interesting. Season 6 was a total meltdown. The TV movie they did recently was bland and uninspired. I am still going to give season 7 an honest shot but I'm not going to stick with it to the end if it sucks like I did for season 6.

    The Shield ended at exactly the right spot. The show was balanced so well. Establish Vic and the team, give them a couple seasons to do their thing, have Vic do one or two really messed up things to dig himself into a hole, then spend the rest of the series watching them try to survive the mess they made. The ending was very honest and logical. No crazy twists out of left field. Most people paid for their crimes. Some paid a lot more than they should have, some a lot less, but it was pretty balanced with reality; reality is almost never fair, but most people get at least a little bit of what's coming.

    The biggest "shockers" was of course Shane's murder/suicide and Vic's confession/sellout. Shane's end was built up well over the course of the last couple of seasons. Real people really do things like what he did thanks to the influence of drugs and their own mental instability. Vic merely revealed to us, finally, where the limits of his personal code lie. He showed which family meant the most, a real Sophie's Choice for him, after about three or four seasons of tough talk saying he would never give up the Strike Team for anything. Neither of these twists were without foreshadowing, neither of them hard to swallow.

    I'm also glad they didn't patronize us by wrapping up every plot with a little bow. Julien is still conflicted about his identity, Claudette is still struggling with her illness and her demanding job, Dutch is still busting serial killers, Danny is still trying to balance being a cop with her family life, and so on. We know Dutch will bust Lloyd, because once he's certain he always gets them. We don't need to see it. We know Claudette is doomed one way or another because she can never catch a break, ever. And so on.
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  • Avatar of MarkKellerman

    MarkKellerman

    [130]Dec 16, 2008
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    I found the last scene to say "Even after all of what has happened,Vic Mackey hasn't changed one iota, and is probably taking his gun to go out and look for Corrine and the kids. He plays by no one's rules but his own, even now."

    I found the finale to be unsatisfying to a degree, because if you were rooting for Vic, it kinda sucked how it ended for him. (Not a true happy ending for him) If you were rooting AGAINST Vic, it kinda sucked how it ended for him.(Not nearly enough of a punishment doled out to him) I found it to be a bit short-sighted on the part of the producers and creators--who wants to buy the dvd's if the first 4 seasons set you up for a letdown or to feel like a fool in the last three seasons? A lot of folks may have felt like rubes for rooting for Vic and the guys seeing how things ended up. And folks don't want to ride a roller-coaster again if it ends with them not exhilarated or laughing and smiling, but sick, queasy, or vomiting. I'm not knocking the show at all, I have loved it since episode one, but the finale, while compelling, didn't tickle my fancy.
    Edited on 12/17/2008 5:36am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of jyesmith

    jyesmith

    [131]Dec 16, 2008
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    Amazing. Simply amazing. What a way to end. Everything in it's place.
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  • Avatar of MarkKellerman

    MarkKellerman

    [132]Dec 17, 2008
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    Belek wrote:

    btw... did anyone get this metaphor of the dinosaur skeleton in this museum near Vic's family's new "home" ?

    That can't be a coincidence !



    Season 1, Gilroy to Vic..."We're dinasaurs Vic, and make no mistake...the meteor is coming." The meteor sure hit the fan by that final scene w/ Corrine and the new home. From co-pilot to the end, a ton of great foreshadowing in 'The Shield'.
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  • Avatar of Yoji_

    Yoji_

    [133]Dec 28, 2008
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    I think it was sad to see that Ronnie was the only member of the team to go down for all the crap that the team did.
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  • Avatar of Golden_surfer

    Golden_surfer

    [134]Dec 29, 2008
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    Greenlit829 wrote:

    What I don't understand is how Corrine could be so selfish and more importantly, paranoid...

    Yes, she knows now that Vic has done some heinous s**t, but how could she ever, ever, EVER think that Vic would hurt her or the kids, in any way? No matter WHAT?

    Corrine (repeatedly): "What's gonna happen to me now, when Vic finds out I've been helping you???? YOU NEED TO ARREST HIIMMM!!"

    Jesus woman, shut up. I guess you really didn't know that man at all. He may have been a little angry and frustrated when he found out, maybe he would have yelled a little, but he would never, EVER hurt his family, including you. Vic loved his family more than himself. But yeah, I guess as long Vic was providing for the family, you had no problem with him being free, did you?

    Enjoy your bland suburban life of anonymity Corrine, you deserve it. I just hope someday your conscience gets to you and you let Vic talk to his kids, the one bright spot he had.



    Yeah well, nobody would've thought he would sell ronnie out so easy, look at how well that turned out.
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  • Avatar of BIGJAMSIE85

    BIGJAMSIE85

    [135]Apr 17, 2009
    • member since: 04/16/09
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    new to the forum,for some reason I wasn't allowed to post a message and a reply to a previous message was the only way I could post a message.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I had a big problem with the finale and I haven't noticed anyone else pointing out the following flaw and maybe someone else could suggest an explantion.

    Why would ronnie believe that he was included in any immunnity deal when he never signed any contract(surely he's well aware of the procedure for these kind of things because he's a cop)and he should have been suspicious about his inclusion in any deal because Vic made sure that ronnie attended the fist meeting but then didn't invite him for the second meeting.Almost anything these days requires a signature.

    Another thing that I didn't like was that Vics betrayal of Ronnie rendered the whole of season 7 a big load of hypocracy.Vic was determined that the person that killed his team member(that he actually considered a brother)should "pay the bill"(as he told Shane)with thier life.His betrayal off Ronnie was the same thing,perhaps even worse than a quick,merciful grenade on the lap.Considering Ronnie is a cop he would be able to look forward to sodomy,shanking and skull bashing(maybe all of the afore mentioned list).I would associate a lot of adjectives with Vic but probably not "hypocrite".

    Finally the thing that I hated most about the ending was that Aceveda had a better fate than everybody else,his election as Mayor is a formality and he has gotten away with murder,I assume that he had some hand in andre 3000's(or 2000,not sure,not a big fan of his music)murder.Claudette is dying,Vic is stuck behind a desk,Shane and his family are dead,Ronnieis in jail,Olivia is made to look a fool and possibly facing some sort of reprimand or demotion,I proably forgot a few folk.In summary I thought it was a poor and possibly lazy ending to the best show on TV for a long time,until Dexter came along.Sorry if the length of the message is against the rules of the forum like I said i'm new and so not fully familiar with the rules,I would appreciate if the tongue lashing are kept to a minimum.
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  • Avatar of avi01

    avi01

    [136]Apr 17, 2009
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    BIGJAMSIE85 wrote:

    Why would ronnie believe that he was included in any immunnity deal when he never signed any contract(surely he's well aware of the procedure for these kind of things because he's a cop)and he should have been suspicious about his inclusion in any deal because Vic made sure that ronnie attended the fist meeting but then didn't invite him for the second meeting.Almost anything these days requires a signature.

    Vic turned down immunity in from of him. Like you said, Ronnie didn`t know about the second meeting. Therefore, as far as he was concerned, the deal was that if Vic and himself do the job with Beltran, THEN ONLY, they`ll get the deal. He knew he was never included but thought he would when they arrested Beltran. He waiting for the signing.

    BIGJAMSIE85 wrote:

    Another thing that I didn't like was that Vics betrayal of Ronnie rendered the whole of season 7 a big load of hypocracy.Vic was determined that the person that killed his team member(that he actually considered a brother)should "pay the bill"(as he told Shane)with thier life.His betrayal off Ronnie was the same thing,perhaps even worse than a quick,merciful grenade on the lap..

    Yes, Vic`s betrayal reminds me of Shane-Lem. In the end, Vic and Shane are very much alike. Some says Vic betraying Ronnie is out of character. Actually no. Vic always protected his boys as much as he can but there`s 2 things that always came before the strike team: Family and himself. When he thought Corrine was arrested, he therefore sacrificed Ronnie for someone he care more.

    BIGJAMSIE85 wrote:

    Finally the thing that I hated most about the ending was that Aceveda had a better fate than everybody else,his election as Mayor is a formality and he has gotten away with murder,I assume that he had some hand in andre 3000's(or 2000,not sure,not a big fan of his music)murder.Claudette is dying,Vic is stuck behind a desk,Shane and his family are dead,Ronnieis in jail,Olivia is made to look a fool and possibly facing some sort of reprimand or demotion,I proably forgot a few folk.In summary I thought it was a poor and possibly lazy ending to the best show on TV for a long time,until Dexter came along.

    -The thing is that you can`t give a happy ending to a show like the shield. Besides Vic`s fate is something complicated to really decide on. Killing him or sending him to prison is not something most fans wanted to see.
    -Claudette`s disease was revealed some seasons back, well she was bound to suffer. Not as if she would find a cure or something in the last episode.
    -Aceveda is the character I always saw with a happy ending...he was never that much of a bad guy, just the typical politician. -The thing they missed was concluding Dutch`s last case in the show in a proper way.
    -Funny you mentioned Dexter while talking finales. It is one of my favorite show but the writers seriously don`t know how to conclude a story (specially last 2 seasons)imo. They go way to much towards the feel good factor.
    -Bottom line, the finale was very depressive to watch (and I always considered Shield a fun show) but it was probably right. I would have prefer Ronnie not in Jail and Vic being Vic (in a way it happened) but like I said, this was never going to be a show with a happy ending.
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  • Avatar of BIGJAMSIE85

    BIGJAMSIE85

    [137]Apr 18, 2009
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    MarkKellerman wrote:
    I found the last scene to say "Even after all of what has happened,Vic Mackey hasn't changed one iota, and is probably taking his gun to go out and look for Corrine and the kids. He plays by no one's rules but his own, even now." I found the finale to be unsatisfying to a degree, because if you were rooting for Vic, it kinda sucked how it ended for him. (Not a true happy ending for him) If you were rooting AGAINST Vic, it kinda sucked how it ended for him.(Not nearly enough of a punishment doled out to him) I found it to be a bit short-sighted on the part of the producers and creators--who wants to buy the dvd's if the first 4 seasons set you up for a letdown or to feel like a fool in the last three seasons? A lot of folks may have felt like rubes for rooting for Vic and the guys seeing how things ended up. And folks don't want to ride a roller-coaster again if it ends with them not exhilarated or laughing and smiling, but sick, queasy, or vomiting. I'm not knocking the show at all, I have loved it since episode one, but the finale, while compelling, didn't tickle my fancy.

    I completely agree,I was also dissapointed with the finale.I always rooted for Vic,he was an ambiguous character but I thought that his good side might come through in the end by showing his loyalty to those closest to him,his justice was usually fair despite his methods being questionable and his determination to catch pezuela and end the cartels influence in the area was a search for redemption for his crimes.As we all know the oposite turned out to be the case and he alienated his family and condemned his only remaining friend to a torturous fate and as I mentioned in a previous post he became in essence a hypocrite and thefore rendered the whole of season 7 as a load of hypocracy(the determination to bring shane to his justice for killing a team member and brother even though he commited the same betrayal towards Ronnie).I have the first 3 seasons on dvd and was planning to get the rest(not very easy in the UK).I feel that the money spent on the dvds was a waste because I obviously thought that the ending was poor and definitely won't be buying the subsequent releases.As I said before this was the best show on television as far back as I can remember but it has been badly let down by the ending.

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  • Avatar of BIGJAMSIE85

    BIGJAMSIE85

    [138]Apr 18, 2009
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    reply to avi01

    I suppose that youre rigt about Ronnie waiting until after the beltran bust.I still have a problem with his ending though,his instinct even before the first ICE deal was offered was to run,his instinct to run should have been even greater when shane didn't turn up for the meet in the park after he made the money drop off to Corrine and then he recieved shanes letter at the barn saying "you've been punked",I have to think that at this point his instinct to run must have been screaming at him and telling him not to even bother with the Beltran meeting.I suppose his problem was being too loyal(maybe verging on stupid).You're also right when you say that the shield could never have a happy ending,too much conflict has happened.My suggestion for an ending would be a complete full circle of the series in which during the beltran bust Vic put a bullet in Ronnie,the same as he done to terry,but this time to spare Ronnie the agony of betrayal and prison life and this would in some way preserve his ambiguous morale code ie:in his mind he did the right thing although the method is questionable or alternatively ronnie could have put a bullet in Vic(maybe having suspicions of vics betrayal),a kind of student becomes teacher situation,vic kills terry to protect the team and then ronnie kills vic to protect whats left of the team,only himself and then he's free to go on the run.Like you said also Dexter could be considered to have too much of a feel good factor but I think there could have been a better mixture of good and bad in the shield ending although any ending is better than no ending.Too many shows are cancelled early these days.You have swayed me a little bit with your response but I am still also quite dissapointed with the way it ended.

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  • Avatar of avi01

    avi01

    [139]Apr 19, 2009
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    Ronnie was definitely too loyal and that from day 1, which obviously cost him. Vic would never have the guts to kill Ronnie. He ain`t Terry. Even to spare him everything you`ve said, he wouldn`t.
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    j_jameson

    [140]Jun 28, 2009
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    the shield... the greats cop drama in the WOULD. Its good to have an ending, no mater how sad. Right? YES. the sad ending shows just how great the shield was.

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