The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

"Petty Cash" (S07E11) Official Discussion

  • Avatar of mik_64

    mik_64

    [21]Nov 13, 2008
    • member since: 03/31/07
    • level: 2
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    Is Ronnie gone?

    All he did was gave Corrine a bag in the park. That's not illegal. I'll have to watch it again but I don't think he said or gave anything up that was incriminating. All he has to say is Vic asked me to drop off a bag with some clothes to Corrine that Cassidy left at his place etc. Can they prove he knew it was money in the bag.

    Even if he knew it was money in the bag. It's not illegal to give a bag of money to someone in the park (after all many of our finest government institutions are run this way )

    If he knew there was money in the bag they have to prove that he knew the purpose of it. After all Vic could have told him that his conscience may have got to him and the money he had been accumulating under his bed over the years, he has finally decided to get Ronnie to give it to Corrine to help with kids yada yada yad. I am sure a smart lawyer could easily refine these scenarios

    Remember Claudette etc wern't expecting Ronnie so they had no intel or evidence that he was in on it

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  • Avatar of sebkane6

    sebkane6

    [22]Nov 13, 2008
    • member since: 11/14/08
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    All I can say is that they have a LOT to tie up in the next two episodes and I'm dying to see what goes on. I've been a fan since the very first commercial aired oh so many years ago and have enjoyed this show a lot. I do have a few complaints, though. One of my biggest pet peeves is how easily the Strike Team got away with practically everything. Some examples....Vic and Ronnie just HAPPENED to be working on a sting operation that allowed them access to wiretaps and video cameras and they bugged Shane's truck and caught Antwon on tape and that led to his downfall. Kavanaugh suddenly decides that he can't get Vic without turning dirty (which sucked because I thought his character rocked the whole show) and then gives himself up. (On a side note, I hated his whole evidence planting thing. I mean, really, it came off as pretty weak that up until now Vic has been untouchable but suddenly he's leaving maps lying around with a big red X on them, etc...it just seemed childish). Shane and Army's lie detector deal that Army got out of and nothing was made of it since then. Granted, Glenn Close left after that but it's still an investigation. Shouldn't she have said something to the next person in line so they would've looked into it? Also, why didn't Kavanaugh check into Shane's test and make Army take one? Wasn't IAD the ones that she had looking into Vic and them in the first place?

    Next, another pet peeve has to do with the logic at times of the show. Why is Shane still in LA? Seriously, get the hell out of Dodge! He HAD 100 G's to play with...what was he waiting on??? Off the top of my head I can't come up with any other examples (mostly because this one is burned into my head right now) but there have been times where I've watched and thought...WTF????

    Anyway, my next complaint has to do with the way the show has been going lately as opposed to how it started. Where are the characters? Example, on this past episode we actually get some focus on Julien as he solves a crime. What about his wife and their attempt at a kid? What about his conflict over his gayness? What about Dutch and his serial killer fixation as well as him killing that cat? Danni and her son? What really got me into the show was the great mix they had of the main characters' issues jumbled in with the supporting characters' stories. It was a nice blend as we got depth to characters that, on most other shows, might have one episode devoted to them if they were lucky. On The Shield we got to see them develop, such as Danni and Julien as trainer/trainee, Julien's internal conflicts over his sexuality, Dutch's attempts at romance once in a while, Vic and his family (where are the other two kids???) with the autism...now it's all about Vic/Shane.

    It's hard to really explain but it seems to me that they could still end the show the way they want to but probably get at least one or two more seasons out of it if they did it like they did when they first started. Now it seems like it's one big rush to get to the end and the story is kind of lacking. Pezuela was built up as a huge nemesis for both Vic and Aceveda. One fist fight later and he's nothing. Also, Rhah's character (Don't know who Rhah is? See "Platoon"...he's in there) could use a LOT more build up as he seems VERY interesting yet, with only two eps left, we'll barely get to know him. Antwon got about a full season. Kavanaugh got over a season. Rhah (forget his name...sorry) gets only a few eps??? Again, if they had the same blend that they did in the earlier seasons then they could have really build up Pezuela as a major badass, and then surprise everyone by showing how Rhah is ten times the badass Pezuela is. As it is now, we get the idea but I just wish we'd seen more of a buildup to it.

    Yes, I've done some complaining but, as much as I love the show, I'm not one of those disciples that drinks the koolaid while ignoring the flaws. Still, The Shield is probably the greatest TV show ever. The Sopranos wasn't bad but I got sick of the constant psychiatric stuff. Never got into 24 or the Wire...really, due to my schedule I don't get to see much of anything on TV but oh well. Let me say this...the Godfather is the greatestbook ever. Godfather's 1 and 2 are the greatest movies ever. The Shield is the Godfather of TV.

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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [23]Nov 14, 2008
    • member since: 08/22/04
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 669
    mik_64 wrote:

    Is Ronnie gone?

    All he did was gave Corrine a bag in the park. That's not illegal. I'll have to watch it again but I don't think he said or gave anything up that was incriminating. All he has to say is Vic asked me to drop off a bag with some clothes to Corrine that Cassidy left at his place etc. Can they prove he knew it was money in the bag.

    Even if he knew it was money in the bag. It's not illegal to give a bag of money to someone in the park (after all many of our finest government institutions are run this way )

    If he knew there was money in the bag they have to prove that he knew the purpose of it. After all Vic could have told him that his conscience may have got to him and the money he had been accumulating under his bed over the years, he has finally decided to get Ronnie to give it to Corrine to help with kids yada yada yad. I am sure a smart lawyer could easily refine these scenarios

    Remember Claudette etc wern't expecting Ronnie so they had no intel or evidence that he was in on it

    There are a lot of people in jail right now for just holding a bag.

    Ignorance is rarely a defence to a crime. And WILLFUL ignorance is never a defence to a crime.

    I love Ronnie and I hope of all of them he finds a way to escape this, but they have him dead to right now.

    You have to look at the whole board. Ronnie was not at home watching the game when Vic called. He was in the middle of a murder investigation. Under none of the situtions you mentioned does it make sense that Ronnie would skip out on finding a killer on the lose to give his ex-bosses, ex-wife old sweaters.

    Plus Ronnie is not a rube, he is a street crime detective, he knows what it means when someone is dropping off a package in the middle of the day in the park. And yes the fact that it is his job to know these kind of criminal acts can be used against him.

    Would Ronnie do time? Maybe maybe not, but they could make the arrest and then sweat Ronnie, offer him a deal to get Vic.

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  • Avatar of wr8280

    wr8280

    [24]Nov 14, 2008
    • member since: 05/10/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 375
    hmnut7 wrote:

    It has been established that Shane does not speak much Spanish, so I think you could be reading too much into it. I doubt Shane knows how to conjugate a verb at all.

    I was saying that the writers put this mistake in on purpose to give us a clue about the ending. I wasn't trying to point out Shane's stupidity (altho he is freakin' stupid not knowing how to unlock a safe when you have the combo?!?! WTF?!) I think Mara is starting to see that he isn't as crafty as she thought.

    I disagree with the above poster about Claudette turning into Kavvy. Kav was doing illegal things and he was provoking Vic, trying to get with his wife, and putting up provocative pics of Terry's death in Billing's office. He was doing things that an objective person shouldn't do. Claudette is frustrated, she is being debilitated by her illness, and she is fighting to save the barn and she needs a win. Dutch, Claudette, and Julian are the triumvirate of good. Whereas Vic, Shane and Ronnie are the unholy trinity. The lines between good and evil are blurry, and the raod to justice may be twisted, but at the end of the day you know who the good guys and who the bad guys are. Its going to talk an awesome women like Claudette to make sure those lines become unblurred and the boundaries become clear.

    In summary Claudette wants Vic because he represents corruption. Bringing him down is symbolic. Kavenaugh had a personal vendetta. I do not see evidence of that with Claudette.

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  • Avatar of wr8280

    wr8280

    [25]Nov 14, 2008
    • member since: 05/10/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 375
    hmnut7 wrote:
    mik_64 wrote:

    Is Ronnie gone?

    All he did was gave Corrine a bag in the park. That's not illegal. I'll have to watch it again but I don't think he said or gave anything up that was incriminating. All he has to say is Vic asked me to drop off a bag with some clothes to Corrine that Cassidy left at his place etc. Can they prove he knew it was money in the bag.

    Even if he knew it was money in the bag. It's not illegal to give a bag of money to someone in the park (after all many of our finest government institutions are run this way )

    If he knew there was money in the bag they have to prove that he knew the purpose of it. After all Vic could have told him that his conscience may have got to him and the money he had been accumulating under his bed over the years, he has finally decided to get Ronnie to give it to Corrine to help with kids yada yada yad. I am sure a smart lawyer could easily refine these scenarios

    Remember Claudette etc wern't expecting Ronnie so they had no intel or evidence that he was in on it

    There are a lot of people in jail right now for just holding a bag.

    Ignorance is rarely a defence to a crime. And WILLFUL ignorance is never a defence to a crime.

    I love Ronnie and I hope of all of them he finds a way to escape this, but they have him dead to right now.

    You have to look at the whole board. Ronnie was not at home watching the game when Vic called. He was in the middle of a murder investigation. Under none of the situtions you mentioned does it make sense that Ronnie would skip out on finding a killer on the lose to give his ex-bosses, ex-wife old sweaters.

    Plus Ronnie is not a rube, he is a street crime detective, he knows what it means when someone is dropping off a package in the middle of the day in the park. And yes the fact that it is his job to know these kind of criminal acts can be used against him.

    Would Ronnie do time? Maybe maybe not, but they could make the arrest and then sweat Ronnie, offer him a deal to get Vic.

    Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But ignorance about the contents of a duffel bag is. Its important because it proves "intent" or in some cases whether something is premeditated.

    Didn't Claudette say something to Corrine like, make sure you get Ronnie talking. But Ronnie didn't say hardly anything he just kept walking.

    Edited on 11/14/2008 10:45am
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [26]Nov 14, 2008
    • member since: 08/22/04
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 669
    wr8280 wrote:
    hmnut7 wrote:
    mik_64 wrote:

    Is Ronnie gone?

    All he did was gave Corrine a bag in the park. That's not illegal. I'll have to watch it again but I don't think he said or gave anything up that was incriminating. All he has to say is Vic asked me to drop off a bag with some clothes to Corrine that Cassidy left at his place etc. Can they prove he knew it was money in the bag.

    Even if he knew it was money in the bag. It's not illegal to give a bag of money to someone in the park (after all many of our finest government institutions are run this way )

    If he knew there was money in the bag they have to prove that he knew the purpose of it. After all Vic could have told him that his conscience may have got to him and the money he had been accumulating under his bed over the years, he has finally decided to get Ronnie to give it to Corrine to help with kids yada yada yad. I am sure a smart lawyer could easily refine these scenarios

    Remember Claudette etc wern't expecting Ronnie so they had no intel or evidence that he was in on it

    There are a lot of people in jail right now for just holding a bag.

    Ignorance is rarely a defence to a crime. And WILLFUL ignorance is never a defence to a crime.

    I love Ronnie and I hope of all of them he finds a way to escape this, but they have him dead to right now.

    You have to look at the whole board. Ronnie was not at home watching the game when Vic called. He was in the middle of a murder investigation. Under none of the situtions you mentioned does it make sense that Ronnie would skip out on finding a killer on the lose to give his ex-bosses, ex-wife old sweaters.

    Plus Ronnie is not a rube, he is a street crime detective, he knows what it means when someone is dropping off a package in the middle of the day in the park. And yes the fact that it is his job to know these kind of criminal acts can be used against him.

    Would Ronnie do time? Maybe maybe not, but they could make the arrest and then sweat Ronnie, offer him a deal to get Vic.

    Ignorance of the law is not a defense. But ignorance about the contents of a duffel bag is. Its important because it proves "intent" or in some cases whether something is premeditated.

    Didn't Claudette say something to Corrine like, make sure you get Ronnie talking. But Ronnie didn't say hardly anything he just kept walking.

    Well first. No of course Claudette did not say "make sure you get Ronnie talking" because she has no idea that Ronnie would be there.

    But more than that, please understand that Willful ignorance really is not a defense to anything.

    The question is not did Ronnie know but should he have known. By willful ignorance I mean the criminal who does not commit the crime but rather drives the get away car. "My friend just said keep the engine running and he would be right back I didn't know he was upstairs killing 20 people." A lot of those guys are in jail right now.

    Some people call it the smell test. Does this smell right? Or does it seem like there is a crime going on? If it seems like there might be a crime going on and you just go along with it, it doesn't matter if you knew 100% you are just as guilty.

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  • Avatar of AlexKrycec

    AlexKrycec

    [27]Nov 15, 2008
    • member since: 07/11/05
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    they had no contact w/ corrine. they could hear her, but she couldn't hear them.
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  • Avatar of AlexKrycec

    AlexKrycec

    [28]Nov 15, 2008
    • member since: 07/11/05
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    dgranitz2004 wrote:
    VIC HAD THE BOX OF SINS ALL ALONG... I LOVE how claudette has turned into Kavanaugh!

    sorry to trim down your post, but i don't think vic had it all along. i'm certain he gave it back because he asked pezuela for olivia's file and pezuela said something to the effect of "it's all i have on that b**ch." why would he say that if he didn't have the box?

    i also think its a stretch to say claudette is turning into kavanaugh. first: kavanaugh made it PUBLIC that he was going after vic WHILE he was a cop. claudette only pursued vic after he turned in his badge. would she have pursued him had he not? maybe, maybe not. but there were only, what, six days left w/ a badge? she could have quietly started building the case. kavanaugh also broke the law (as another poster stated). you say claudette made this personal, i don't think she did. vic slept w/ kav's wife, claudette had beef w/ vic's methods (and their legality, not the person). the only way kav & wyms are the same, i think, is their PASSION for stopping vic.

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  • Avatar of sebkane6

    sebkane6

    [29]Nov 16, 2008
    • member since: 11/14/08
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    As far as Claudette goes, I'd have to watch it again but I think she might have said to Dutch that she wanted Corinne to get Ronnie talking while they were watching the drop take place.

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  • Avatar of DerMeister1

    DerMeister1

    [30]Nov 16, 2008
    • member since: 11/17/08
    • level: 1
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    sebkane6 wrote:

    As far as Claudette goes, I'd have to watch it again but I think she might have said to Dutch that she wanted Corinne to get Ronnie talking while they were watching the drop take place.

    She did say this to Dutch but Corinne couldn't hear it of course.

    I think Julian may give Ronnie a heads up after reluctantly telling him nothing was wrong (notice how Julian looked back to see Claudette watching him after Ronnie left his office).

    Claudette is pissy because she's sick, she going to make Dutch go out and kill another stray cat, LOL!

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  • Avatar of AlexKrycec

    AlexKrycec

    [31]Nov 16, 2008
    • member since: 07/11/05
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    DerMeister1 wrote:
    sebkane6 wrote:

    As far as Claudette goes, I'd have to watch it again but I think she might have said to Dutch that she wanted Corinne to get Ronnie talking while they were watching the drop take place.

    She did say this to Dutch but Corinne couldn't hear it of course.

    I think Julian may give Ronnie a heads up after reluctantly telling him nothing was wrong (notice how Julian looked back to see Claudette watching him after Ronnie left his office).

    Claudette is pissy because she's sick, she going to make Dutch go out and kill another stray cat, LOL!

    i think that cats proved too easy for dutch. he's now moving on to baby aligators.
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  • Avatar of dgranitz2004

    dgranitz2004

    [32]Nov 17, 2008
    • member since: 06/08/05
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    I respect your opinions but I am standing by my assumption that claudette is turning into Kavanaugh. You are right, she hasn't been shown as making it completelty personal or doing some illegal to get him.....YET. There are still 2 episodes left, and they have, IMO, clearly shown her in the last episode as STARTING to go off the deep end, starting to lose it...just like Kavanaugh did shortly BEFORE vic did his wife (Aka, when Kavy realized vic was watching him in interrogation with his wife). IF they use the final 2 episodes to show her completely spiral downward, losing it more and more, AND does something illegal to get him...I hope you all will give due respect to my idea. If not, I will admit that I was wrong. I will. But as I see it, that episode was just the beginning of her completely losing it and becoming Kavanaugh.

    And I still believe Vic has had the box all along.

    Only one week until Vic's needle!!!
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  • Avatar of RAYcluse

    RAYcluse

    [33]Nov 17, 2008
    • member since: 06/16/08
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    Claudette isn't doing anything illegal in this whole thing. She's actually the only captain who hasn't used Vic to their advantage rather then just bringing him down. As for Kavanaugh, I think that there is a WIDLY large difference between the two. She isn't planting evidence or manipulating people for information. She is using legality and she's getting pretty close. Even their passion isn't the same because with Claudette it's more of the fact that Vic and Shane keep slipping. Whether Vic was still a police officer or not, she would still be gunning for the strike team because it was revealed Shane TRIED TO KILL HIS COWORKERS. The reason she's so passionate now is because she's so close. If that opened up when Kavanaugh was around, he'd be MUCH more intense than Cluadette has been. You can't even compare the two. One is pure evil and the other just happened to be around when the case-cracking news came about.
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  • Avatar of blknge

    blknge

    [34]Nov 17, 2008
    • member since: 12/07/06
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    Kavanuagh would have gone too far, he'd hunt Shane down like a wolf and Vic's badge wouldn't be enough. With Claudette this take-down may drag on more but the guilty free, honest approach will (I hope) get her what she wants, what's right. She's always tried the hardest (as if her kitchen doesn't already prove this) and I'd almost like no one better than her to finish the job, it may grow more complex, a very grey show neither black or white.
    Edited on 11/17/2008 2:54pm
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  • Avatar of AlexKrycec

    AlexKrycec

    [35]Nov 17, 2008
    • member since: 07/11/05
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    dgranitz2004 wrote:
    I respect your opinions but I am standing by my assumption that claudette is turning into Kavanaugh. You are right, she hasn't been shown as making it completelty personal or doing some illegal to get him.....YET. There are still 2 episodes left, and they have, IMO, clearly shown her in the last episode as STARTING to go off the deep end, starting to lose it...just like Kavanaugh did shortly BEFORE vic did his wife (Aka, when Kavy realized vic was watching him in interrogation with his wife). IF they use the final 2 episodes to show her completely spiral downward, losing it more and more, AND does something illegal to get him...I hope you all will give due respect to my idea. If not, I will admit that I was wrong. I will. But as I see it, that episode was just the beginning of her completely losing it and becoming Kavanaugh. And I still believe Vic has had the box all along. Only one week until Vic's needle!!!
    hey, if you're right, you're right! i respect your opinions, and this show has seen a lot crziers turns of events. but claudette goin' bad would be pretty hefty
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