The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

"Possible Kill Screen" (S07E12) Official Discussion

  • Avatar of Gino24

    Gino24

    [1]Nov 18, 2008
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    For discussion of the episode, "Possible Kill Screen."

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  • Avatar of Mannyf50

    Mannyf50

    [2]Nov 18, 2008
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    THAT EPISODE WAS AWESOME!!!! I still dont agree with vic signing those papers.... Ronnie is screwed
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [3]Nov 18, 2008
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    DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I guess the series is ending just how it started, Vic is a cold hearted bastard!!!!!!!!!!

    So the truth finally comes out. I am not even talking about all the **** Vic admitted to, but rather the fact that the truth is out Vic would burn Ronnie to save himself (or at least his family). What is Vic gonna do when he learns Corinne played him.

    And 3 years. Vic has to play clean for 3 years, I know there is only one more episode left but I just don't see that happening. A guy like Vic is going to go dirty sooner or later.

    I really loved the long pause before Vic came clean, that was so played so perfectly because for all those years Vic has been keeping all of that stuff a secret, almost to the point where even he probably believed the lies, it must have been a little hard to start but at the same time felt good to finally let it out.

    Side note, the Mara killing that chick and getting hurt was pretty cool, but I really hope they don't do something chessy with Shane and the drugs. Like he screws up because he needs to score, that seemed like a pretty sad side story.

    I liked Claudette losing it and firing Dutch, only because of the way Dutch was like "uh no, I'm not." Shows when he needs to Dutch is the man. On another side note, I think it needs to be said. IT WAS DUTCH WHO GOT MACKIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah Vic got his deal and all that. But let's remember Terry, David, Claudette, Kav, and then Claudette again all had plans to make Vic trip up, but it was Dutch who actually planned the sting that made Vic go "I have to come clean." DUTCH IS DA MAN!!!!!!

    I think it was harsh that Vic left Ronnie out to dry, but in my heart I think in Vic's heart he thinks he has a plan to get Ronnie out, maybe he will have sometype of code word so Ronnie will know to run. Or otherwise Vic really is a cold hearted bastard and the needle is too good for him.

    What ever, I am once again counting down to next tuesday, I have no idea what I will do when the show is over, I guess I will have to get a life..... the horror.

    Edited on 11/18/2008 8:21pm
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  • Avatar of hurleyjunx666

    hurleyjunx666

    [4]Nov 18, 2008
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    Amazing episode! Vic, WHY DID YOU CONFESS!!??? WHY!!!???
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  • Avatar of hurleyjunx666

    hurleyjunx666

    [5]Nov 18, 2008
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    On the side note, I really hope that Vic can get Ronnie some kind of deal or find some way to get him out of trouble. Or maybe he decides to switch places with Ronnie and gets his deal over to him unless otherwise. I remember during season 5 when Vic told Becca that if she could make a deal where he could trade places with Lem, she should make that deal. However, she never did that. Hopefully, Vic decides to make that kind of arrangement should Ronnie get nabbed. I'd hate for things to end that way with Vic but it would show that he has some kind of heart and character for a guy as tight as Ronnie. If not, Vic is really the cold-hearted guy he came to be in season 1.

    Loved how he paused a long while and finally confessed to killing Terry. I couldn't believe he would confess to that. I'm still finding it difficult to believe that he admitted such a crime.

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  • Avatar of sidious618

    sidious618

    [6]Nov 18, 2008
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    Amazing episode. Vic's confession and Claudette's breakdown were mindblowing. I could hardly believe it when she fired Dutch (although I'm assuming she realized how silly she was being when Dutch grabbed her and said, "This is not you."). Wow, just wow.

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  • Avatar of jrob28

    jrob28

    [7]Nov 18, 2008
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    Damn, I really didn't want Vic selling out Ronnie. Could Julian have made himself more obvious looking at Shane's car? And Claudette calling Dutch "sanctimonious". Pot meet kettle. But I love it when she flies off the handle.
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  • Avatar of tgd_Lazarus

    tgd_Lazarus

    [8]Nov 18, 2008
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    Loved the episode. I have to say I was a bit on the edge once Vic went to sign the ICE deal. Claudette almost got him. I was expecting her to burst through that door in any second BEFORE Vic confessed. Once he spilled everything, I LOVED Olivia's expression.
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [9]Nov 18, 2008
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    Ok, some of you may have read my post titled "MY GOD, just.....WOW" where I endlessly praise this episode and the OMG-tension it built up. But now that I've had some time to ponder (I dont have to work tomorrow, haha), I do feel I have to make some amendments:

    So here goes, as much as I LOVED this entire episode, some of it didn't make sense to me. WHY in the WORLD did Vic confess to things that NOT A SOUL IN THE WORLD could positively prove, beyond a reasonable doubt? He could have just maybe admitted something like this, in his typical, "convincing liar's" way:

    "You have to understand, as an ex-cop, I'm not proud of any of this. *HEAVY SIGH*...........Back in the day, my team and I occassionally got involved in some shady arrangements with local drug dealers. We would give them leniency to sell their product and they would cut us into the profits. I only did it because I had a wife and three kids to support, two of whom were autistic.....none of the money went into my pocket. Also, there were some police brutality complaints made against me that may have been accurate. But the ones I used excessive force against were scum-of-the-Earth murderers and thugs who deserved it. The deals with the dealers were wrong, I know. But it didn't last long. I saw the error of my ways, and I'm a changed man now. I just want to keep locking up bad guys behind bars and making the streets safer. It's what I've always wanted to do......And that's the end."

    Click. Bada-bing, bada-boom. Done and done. Vic admits to some MINOR crimes to keep I.C.E. suspicion low, keeps Ronnie's name out of it, and gets full immunity!! Olivia doesn't know about Vic's past, so why would she keep digging? Plus, she respects Vic (and is probably secretly wet for him!). She respects his courage, his dedication, and his toughness. Those small confessions would have been enough to convince her.

    Now I know some of you will fire back with: "WTF are you talking about? When Shane and Mara get caught, Shane will spill it all, and Vic and Ronnie are both toast!! So Vic has to come clean!". But here's why that reason is STUPID:

    Shane Vendrell is a CRIMINAL. He is a fugitive from the law. He is a corrupt-to-the-bone ex-cop, and last but not least, he's a MURDERER!! (and now so is his stupid b*tch of a wife Mara) And everyone KNOWS it. How can that one man's word alone, prove that Vic killed Terry, Margos, or Guardo, or that he masterminded ripping off the Money Train or any of the other hundreds of crimes?? Shane cannot prove ANY of those things, and Vic, with all his instincts and wisdom, should know that!!....so why is he SO worried about it? Vic could just deny all of his MAJOR crimes and say Shane was full of s*it, just trying to smear his name for a lighter sentence......bottom line, there is NO proof! None. Just one dirty cop's word against two others.

    But yet, Victor Samuel Mackey confessed to every. single. thing. In living color, clear as day. Including his full name! Why Vic, why? I definitely enjoyed the tension in that scene, but just vomiting out all those crimes seemed so unneccessary.

    But I guess, to finally bring closure to the show, it had to be done.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 12:27am
    Edited 14 total times.
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  • Avatar of briantw

    briantw

    [10]Nov 19, 2008
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    Greenlit829 wrote:

    But yet, Victor Samuel Mackey confessed to every. single. thing. In living color, clear as day. Including his full name! Why Vic, why? I definitely enjoyed the tension in that scene, but just vomiting out all those crimes seemed so unneccessary.

    But I guess, to finally bring closure to the show, it had to be done.



    Because the deal was that if anything he didn't confess to was brought to light, his deal would be void. Shane could provide too many details of everything they've done, and even if it were possible that Vic could wiggle out of it, there's just as much a chance that Shane would bring Vic down with him.

    By confessing to everything, Vic absolutely assures his own safety and his wife's safety.
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [11]Nov 19, 2008
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    briantw wrote:
    Greenlit829 wrote:

    But yet, Victor Samuel Mackey confessed to every. single. thing. In living color, clear as day. Including his full name! Why Vic, why? I definitely enjoyed the tension in that scene, but just vomiting out all those crimes seemed so unneccessary.

    But I guess, to finally bring closure to the show, it had to be done.

    Because the deal was that if anything he didn't confess to was brought to light, his deal would be void. Shane could provide too many details of everything they've done, and even if it were possible that Vic could wiggle out of it, there's just as much a chance that Shane would bring Vic down with him. By confessing to everything, Vic absolutely assures his own safety and his wife's safety.

    But I keep coming back to the SAME point. Yes, if Shane confessed EVERYTHING, it would be kind of embarrassing for Vic and Ronnie. It would raise suspicions. Perhaps there would be an ICE investigation probing deeper into Vic's past. But that investigation would turn up empty-handed, because barring the Strike Team, NOBODY has witnessed Vic and/or Ronnie do anything bad!! Where's the video recording? Where's the DNA? Where's the fingerprints, gun residue, hair fibers, blood samples, drug residue?

    It's not there. You know why? Because Vic Mackey is a meticulous, calculating, extremely shrewd man. And without any kind of solid evidence, how could mere SUSPICION, raised by some corrupt, redneck, fugitive, bigoted ex-cop criminal with the SAME suspicions against him as Vic and Ronnie be enough to convict Vic? And Vic, as clever as he is, should know this, and be shown to feel confident and smug about it.

    What if Vic just laughed and said the this after Shane was caught: "Shane said I killed Terry?? *dry chuckle*.....he's full of s hit. He can smell the chair roasting his redneck balls, and he'll say ANYTHING to weasel himself into a better deal. He doesn't have s hit on me, OR Ronnie, and he knows it. He's desperate, you can't listen to a word he says."

    And ICE and Claudette would be completely helpless. They can go back to that room in Two-Time's crib and tear it apart, inch-by-inch, looking for evidence that Vic blew Terry's head off, but its NOT THERE. They send a forensics team to Vic's "murder shack" and look for traces of Guardo's blood, but they WOULDN'T FIND IT, and so on and so forth....

    So IMO, Vic's full confession to Olivia wasn't LOGICALLY necessary, but it was necessary from a writing standpoint, to bring full closure to the show.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 1:08am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of sebkane6

    sebkane6

    [12]Nov 19, 2008
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    Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn! Here's something I wonder if anyone else thought of. When Vic was about to start talking, he paused and made several different expressions. I don't know about any of you but I half expected him to piece it together that Olivia still worked for Pezuela and/or Beltran and that this was a way to get dirt on Vic, much like the rest of the box of blackmail. It might have been a stretch and I'm glad it didn't happen but for a minute there I thought "Wow, I wonder if he's going to get up and walk away after calling them out?"

    Anyway, Shane gets away from Tina and apparently he evaded what should've been a swarm of cops looking for him. After all, he assaulted an officer and took her gun. HELLO? Where was the cavalry? Plus with him being on foot, how far could he get? I just don't like how he apparently got away so easily. I'm glad he did but really, he just pretty much walked off like nothing happened. Still, I did like the interaction he had with Tina, who did a damn good job of almost getting him to come in. Anyone else get the idea he's going to pull a Hitler and off her, his kid and himself right before cops roll in to take them away?

    As for Dutch/Billings/Claudette....well, the whole Billings deal is getting old. I love his character and he's had quite a few scene stealing moments but now he's more or less a sidenote/running gag on the show which, IMO, is a waste. The whole Dutch/mother/serial killer kid angle is still puttering along as well. I wish they would either devote more time to it or just end it entirely. I like the storyline and I'd love to see where it leads but really, get to the friggin' point or at least give us more to go on. Right now it's a bunch of hangups. Also, Dutch had every right to be at her house. Someone from there was, technically, prank calling him, which is illegal. As a cop, he has every right to investigate so she needs to shut her mouth and know her role. And Claudette? She's never been anywhere near the top of my favorite characters' list but she was great the last few episodes as she saw Vic slip away (seemingly, we still have one more ep to go!) for the last time. I half expected Vic to walk out while her and Dutch were arguing, give them both a little smirk and walk away. What would've been even better would've been for her and Dutch to walk in right as he started confessing. Them barging in just in time to hear him confess to killing Terry Crowley would've been sweet only to have the guy say "Nope, he's got immunity!" However, that would've been a bit staged for them to just get there right in the nick of time to hear it all. In hindsight I think it's better that they only heard part of it and they have to wonder what they missed out on. HA!

    Note to Julien....it's called being covert. Try it sometime. Really, what was that? "Hey, I think we might have the suspect's car! Let me just stand right here in broad daylight blatantly inspecting it without even thinking to call and prepare others to come back me up in case it does belong to them! Hell, I won't even look around first to see if the person we're looking for is around here. I won't even hide and wait to see if they come out so I can follow them and call in support. Nope, just gonna stand here in the middle of the street looking at the car!" Sorry but for someone that Claudette thought was good enough to be on the Strike Team, he sure looked pretty stupid.

    OK, so Danni is back. And...who cares? It's almost the end and she is doing absolutely nothing. What a waste.

    And finally, Ronnie. Poor guy gets buried by Vic because of Corinne. Hopefully he gets away and Vic takes the heat for everything. It's possible if he realizes Corinne turned on him. She wouldn't need to be covered under immunity anymore so who knows? Maybe he'll find out, realize he sold Ronnie out for nothing, warn Ronnie away which would kill his deal and Vic takes the blame for everything. Oh well, one more week (dammit!) and 90 awesome minutes from now and we'll see how it ends.

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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [13]Nov 19, 2008
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    >>OK, so Danni is back. And...who cares? It's almost the end and she is doing absolutely nothing. What a waste.

    Maybe she'll get together with Dutch in the finale, who knows?

    As for Ronnie, my guess is that he will find out Vic betraying him to ICE and that will be Vic's ultimate undoing in some way. Although he may be pretty boring, Ronnie isn't stupid, and he knows how to protect himself.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 1:26am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of bobthebaker

    bobthebaker

    [14]Nov 19, 2008
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    [QUOTE="Greenlit829"][QUOTE="briantw"]
    Greenlit829 wrote:

    So IMO, Vic's full confession to Olivia wasn't LOGICALLY necessary, but it was necessary from a writing standpoint, to bring full closure to the show.

    I doubt it's that cut and dry to escape the testimony of a witness/accomplice . I'm sure Shane could provide further eyewitness and information (obviously with a deal that specifies he must successfully turn a conviction on Vic) that would connect Vic to a number of crimes. It's not really possible to clean yourself completely of a crime. The cops just miss puzzle pieces they need to complete the whole picture, which is how he got away before. Even if Shane couldn't actually give successful information to convict Vic, he needs to make sure he had his basis covered for the likely event that he could get connected to some crimes.

    I'm actually curious how ICE and farmington would handle the fact that Vic's confession obligates them to release most of the criminals he helped locked up, though I doubt the show will actually delve into that topic.

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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [15]Nov 19, 2008
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    Shane could DEFINITELY tie Vic to drug dealers like Rondell and Tio, and the under-the-table deals he had with them. And those are the crimes I said Vic SHOULD have confessed to, no doubt about it!

    But wouldn't you agree that confessing to killing Terry (The big enchilada), Margos, and Guardo made NO sense whatsoever? Didn't Aceveda try hard, for YEARS, to prove that Vic and Shane set up and killed Terry? Did it work? Kavanaugh went practically PSYCHO trying to prove Vic's big crimes, and still couldn't. No one can. Nobody else saw it. As for Margos, Vic killed him behind closed doors, NO witnesses. Guardo? Same deal, only witnesses were Ronnie and Shane, and Ronnie wouldn't rat on Vic. For these three murders, there are no "missing puzzle pieces" that the cops need to put together, like you said. Vic completely ERASED the puzzle pieces.

    Logically, what was the point of confessing then?

    Edited on 11/19/2008 2:10am
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  • Avatar of bobthebaker

    bobthebaker

    [16]Nov 19, 2008
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    Greenlit829 wrote:
    Shane could DEFINITELY tie Vic to drug dealers like Rondell and Tio, and the under-the-table deals he had with them. And those are the crimes I said Vic SHOULD have confessed to, no doubt about it! But wouldn't you agree that confessing to killing Terry (The BIGGEST one of them all), Margos, and Guardo made NO sense whatsoever? Aceveda tried hard, for YEARS, to prove that Vic and Shane set up and killed Terry. It didn't work. Kavanaugh went practically PSYCHO trying to prove it, and still couldn't. No one can. Nobody else saw it. As for Margos, Vic killed him behind closed doors, NO witnesses. Guardo? Same deal, only witnesses were Ronnie and Shane, and Ronnie wouldn't rat on Vic. For these three murders, there are no "missing puzzle pieces" that the cops need to put together, like you said. Vic completely ERASED the puzzle pieces. Logically, what was the point of confessing then?

    Vic is smart no doubt, but those specific sins Vic confessed to would be the worst ones he would pay for. There's no point arguing the "logical point" to confessing to them when it's obvious the only reason he took the deal was to get immunity in large part to those specific crimes. If he wasn't afraid to get caught for those by shane's testimony he obviously wouldn't have anything to do with the immunity deal to begin with, so saying he should just confess to smaller crimes is a moot point.

    Now from what the viewer has seen it may appear his involvement in those crimes to the cops are non-existent, but if Mackey is making these deals then it's obvious he can think of a way to get caught doing them so it's safe to assume Shane's testimony can indeed seal Vic's fate in one way or another. So yes, there are still LIKELY missing puzzle pieces that everyone investigating vic before luckily missed.

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  • Avatar of ADragonsDream

    ADragonsDream

    [17]Nov 19, 2008
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    He's getting immunity. There's no reason NOT to confess to everything. Why take the chance? If they dig up *anything* at all, if even one whisper from Shane turns out to be true and Vic hadn't confessed to it, the deal is void and he is screwed for everything. Shane may be a fugitive ex-cop but that doesn't mean his credibiltiy is nil. And it's not like Vic is gonna get any backing from anyone but Ronnie (and probably not that now either). In a Vic-said Shane-said battle of accusations, neither side looks all that reliable.

    Imagine this:

    Shane says "Vic killed Terry and we covered it up"

    Vic says "Shane killed Terry and we covered it up"

    either way, they both go down.

    The other thing is that perhaps somewhere in the cold heart of Vic's he actually does feel guilty about killing Terry. Confession is good for the soul and all that. and here, he can do so without fear. He's got immunity.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 2:31am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [18]Nov 19, 2008
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    Well, you do have a point inasmuch that if Vic was receiving full immunity anyway, why not just confess everything so there would be no unpleasant "surprises" later, true......but what about Ronnie, hm? If Vic had cut the Money Train and Ronnie's killing of Zadofian(which he probably confessed to as well!) completely out of the confession, wouldn't he avoid (for the most part) implicating Gardocki in anything really serious? (besides being privy to the brief crooked deals they had with Rondell and Tio) Vic just TOTALLY fed Ronnie to the sharks right there, when he spilled his guts about it all. A$$hole thing to do to your most loyal friend.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 2:42am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of bobthebaker

    bobthebaker

    [19]Nov 19, 2008
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    ADragonsDream wrote:

    He's getting immunity. There's no reason NOT to confess to everything. Why take the chance? If they dig up *anything* at all, if even one whisper from Shane turns out to be true and Vic hadn't confessed to it, the deal is void and he is screwed for everything. Shane may be a fugitive ex-cop but that doesn't mean his credibiltiy is nil. And it's not like Vic is gonna get any backing from anyone but Ronnie (and probably not that now either). In a Vic-said Shane-said battle of accusations, neither side looks all that reliable.

    Imagine this:

    Shane says "Vic killed Terry and we covered it up"

    Vic says "Shane killed Terry and we covered it up"

    either way, they both go down.

    The other thing is that perhaps somewhere in the cold heart of Vic's he actually does feel guilty about killing Terry. Confession is good for the soul and all that. and here, he can do so without fear. He's got immunity.

    He's arguing that Vic has no proveable connection (he assumes) to the murders and therefore it is retarded to confess to them, as he is only further implicating Ronnie as a guilty party. His argument has merit, but like I said above he needs to ensure immunity to the murders because it's very unlikely Shane can't provide something that connects Vic to at least one of those murders.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 2:43am
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [20]Nov 19, 2008
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    >> Imagine this:

    Shane says "Vic killed Terry and we covered it up"

    Ummm, and then how about Vic responds, "That redneck is full of s hit, I didn't kill Terry, Two-Time did. Check the gun, it has Two-Time's fingerprints on it. Oh, one other thing: Shane blew Lem away with a grenade"

    Who's to say who's telling the truth?

    Edited on 11/19/2008 2:46am
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