The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

"Possible Kill Screen" (S07E12) Official Discussion

  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [21]Nov 19, 2008
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    We could go back and forth with this all day and all night.

    The truth is, yes Vic could have played he said/she said with Shane, but that was true with or without the ICE deal. The truth is a lot of you have not been watching the show closely enough and forgot one important fact, Vic is a bastard. The very first episode Vic killed a cop in cold blood. I know a lot of you because of your affection for Vic try to overlook this, but that is not something a good guy does. Vic is a bastard.

    If Vic would have come clean, the way he did last night, in season 5, Lem would still be alive. Of course Vic wanted to help Lem but he would rather play every angle possible before he puts his own freedom at risk.

    The same thing with protecting Ronnie, I don't see anyway he can get Ronnie out, without ICE thinking he tipped Ronnie off in which case the deal is void. It appears that Ronnie is basically in the same boat as Beltran right now, Vic probably needs both behind bars. And as far as switching the deal so it is Vic behind bars and Ronnie goes free, I don't see that working, because the deal is signed and done, Vic could have made that a condition the same as he did for Corrine. He could have (and should have said) "look if you can't get me and Ronnie both immunity just get it for Ronnie, and after I get Beltran, you do what you have to do." But no, he covered his own ass and hung Ronnie out to dry.

    And I think we were all shocked by this, but it does go back to something I said about Lem after Shane dropped the bomb, in some ways it was Lem's fault. And in some ways it was Ronnie's fault probably even more than Lem's. I love Ronnie, he is my favorite, but the problem with Vic's confession is it is all true, yeah sure Vic was the mastermind but Ronnie was his willing alley, he went along with everything Vic did and helped Vic cover it all up. It is not fair that Ronnie should go to jail but Vic goes free, but it is not unfair that Ronnie goes to jail. But through it all Ronnie's only real crime was trusting Vic, I mean he knew Vic killed Terry, when you are a cop and you trust a cop killer you are playing russian roulette with your life, and Ronnie lost. Ronnie's biggest sin was listening to Vic when he Vic said not to run.

    Right now my hopes are that if Ronnie goes down he finds a way to take Vic with him, hell Vic gave him up for accessory to murder (a few murders I think), if Ronnie is going to go to jail for murdering someone it might as well be Vic.

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  • Avatar of HawkBat

    HawkBat

    [22]Nov 19, 2008
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    Quick question about the latest ep. Why didn't Vic warn Ronnie and get him to escape to Mexico then just add that (Vic warning Ronnie) to his confession to ICE? That way Ronnie is free in Mexico, and Vic has full immunity?
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  • Avatar of brandoggydog

    brandoggydog

    [23]Nov 19, 2008
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    if vic said to ronnie,

    i'm going to take the deal, confess to everything, implicating you in the process. here's the heads up buddy you should go on the run to mexico

    a bullet from ronnies gun would be passing through vic's brain before he got a chance to mention the goat farm

    i'm surprised a lot of you look for mistakes vic might have made, in the man's own words he's "too good"!

    i don't know if mackey can let ronnie go down though. in spite of the show he gave olivia, i don't think he could do as he said.

    Edited on 11/19/2008 6:03am
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  • Avatar of RAYcluse

    RAYcluse

    [24]Nov 19, 2008
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    Couldn't have said it any beter hmnut. Vic is evil and always has been and will be. The show likes to play around with those roles but stripped down Vic is ruthless and uncaring. I don't even know why all of a sudden he cares about Corrine when he's already got her in knee deep s*** before this fake arrest. I honestly think he was just looking for an excuse to sign the deal rather than just breaking his promise to Ronnie. This way he would feel less guilty. This episode was great. Totally unexpected. Claudette's scene made me teary. I felt so bad for her. Screaming at Dutch like that makes me wonder how she's thinking of dealing with Vic. And as one forum said, Vic and Claudette will have an intense confrontation which also makes me worried. I'm pretty sure she's a goner (and probably knows it herelf, which is why she's so impatient lately).

    Vic's confession scene was so intense. I kept waiting for him to talk but he just sat there feeling guilty. So many emotions must have went through his head and I could definently see it. To me it made complete sense. I'm sure the slightest hint of wrong doing that Vic failed to mention, even without conviction, would null the deal. And I'm sure he left something out. Something small no doubt. And Shane could easily send in another statement (real this time) to take Vic down be it a lie or something Vic forgot. I'm sure Vic is a goner as well. But it's definently not going to be from the needle. Like I've said all along, his punishment will fit the crime(s).
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  • Avatar of LII2

    LII2

    [25]Nov 19, 2008
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    Wow, I wasn't expecting Vic to ever confess. Very moving and well acted by Chiklis. As for Mara;she seems to be getting stupider each time we see her. Good thing she broke her collarbone and started to realize what she had done( Shooting an innocent woman). How stupid is she being pregnant and all to risk her life and her unborn baby's to save Shane; plus leave Jackson out in the car alone. They really should take both kids away from her
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  • Avatar of Prigal

    Prigal

    [26]Nov 19, 2008
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    That was an amazing episode. I have to say, did no one think that maybe, vic allready warned roonie? just after he saw corine get arrested, and he realized he got to sigh the deal, then just after he warned roonie. he went to sigh the deal. we know that vic is a mastermind, and he knows how the feds work and what is thier terms. i don't think he will sell out roonie, all through this season we saw them bonding, roonie was loyal to vic in such way that vic was really moved. the main diffrence between tony soprno and vic is, that vic allways cared about his friends and family and never took money for himself or for pleasure. but at the same time, the title for the last episode is "family meeting" and that relly worry me. maybe all the strike team will just end up meeting in jail or all of them just will die. i also think shane and mara will die, mara will die from her injury, and shane is crazy enough to kill himself and his sun, i got to that, when he said to tina that it's to late right now, and when he said to mara that he is sorry,that was the same crying and way he said it to lem after he put the grenade in his the car.
    Edited on 11/19/2008 11:12am
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  • Avatar of pete_petrelli

    pete_petrelli

    [27]Nov 19, 2008
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    Man thats not the way i saw things happening, i had in my mind that Vic and Ronnie would save theyre assess pressuring aceveda with that whole aceveda/juan/blowjob/picture/antwon killing juan frame, that would be the bomb...

    But now Vic has saved his buttocks confessing to a ton of sh1t and we now have some amazing possibilities:

    Ronnie get motivation to stand for himself, will he be a errand-boy or the man?

    Corine is damned i dont know what Vic will do to her, he didnt kill Emolia that time because Kavanaugh went in, imagine what the hell he´ll do to Corine...

    Im pretty sure that at least one person in the U.S. federal payroll have armenian connections. Somebody will know about the money train...

    And if not, there´s still Diro.... Cant see Mackey getting out of all this alive

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  • Avatar of steveuk2010

    steveuk2010

    [28]Nov 19, 2008
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    Amazing episode cant wait for nexted weeks finale. Quick question was there anything major vic left out of his confession as i cant think of anything he left out
    Edited on 11/19/2008 11:43am
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  • Avatar of HectorHardMode

    HectorHardMode

    [29]Nov 19, 2008
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    Wow. I really shouldn't be surprised but I simply cannot believe Vic sold out Ronnie like that.

    I think one possible ending would be the Beltran bust going sideways (which would make Vic's deal void) and Vic warning Ronnie once he realises he's screwed and they both part ways and go on the run like Shane.

    In all probability, I'd say the series will end with all members of the Strike team either dead (like Lem) or behind bars, which is fitting.

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  • Avatar of regd76

    regd76

    [30]Nov 19, 2008
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    ADragonsDream wrote:

    The other thing is that perhaps somewhere in the cold heart of Vic's he actually does feel guilty about killing Terry. Confession is good for the soul and all that. and here, he can do so without fear. He's got immunity.

    I totally agree with you that he did it to cleanse his mind. Imagine having all of that to try in bury in the back of your head for the last 7 years and be worried that someone somehow would find out and turn him in because he somehow missed something important that would implicate him. Imagine the constant second guessing he had to put himself through. A guilty conscience could drive a person absolutely crazy. I couldn't imagine how much that would weigh on someone. That's why he gave the long pause and was almost to tears before he spilled it all. It was like giving a confession to a priest or talking to a therapist about your problems. That sense of relief that "Now I don't have to worry about slipping up anymore." That's why he gave it all up and to come out scott free and looking like a hero at the same time. It makes sense to me. I do hate that Ronnie is not free and clear and is pretty much going to be in a position that Lem was. As loyal as Ronnie is, I think that ultimately it will be him that takes care of Vic in the end. He's become very hardened this season and he's followed Vic into the fire from day one and rarely second guessed. To then find out that Vic left him hanging after watching Vic turn down the deal originally might give Ronnie all the reason in the world to kill Vic. I can't wait. I haven't been this excited for a finale ever.

    Enjoy next Tuesday

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  • Avatar of Morlunnis

    Morlunnis

    [31]Nov 19, 2008
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    Holy ****... I wonder if he confessed about juggling back and forth with Olivia's blackmail file too, or if her "Do you know what you have done to me?" was just about the flak she'l get for getting immunity to one of the biggest criminals in L.A.

    In her place, if Vic hadn't confessed about her file, I'd probably burn myself to screw him. Cut a deal like "what if I know something that can void Mackey's deal, what kind of deal would I get?"

    Predictions for the finale: Shane kills Julien. Ronnie kills Vic and Shane. Lloyd kills Dutch. Claudette kills herself. Billings kills the child molester and gets arrested. Uh... then everyone left alive starts shooting at each other. Last one alive shoots himself in the head. Everyone dies. The show ends with Kavanaugh laughing to death in his jail cell after hearing of Vic's death.
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  • Avatar of PTBounce

    PTBounce

    [32]Nov 19, 2008
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    PREDICTION: VIC'S DEAL WILL BE NULL AND VOID

    Reason: He insisted so much on Corrine being included in his deal because of her being "arrested" for "aiding and abetting".

    Remember, Vic assumes that Corrine was arrested. Dutch had the cops move in on her as a show for Vic. Corrine knew he was there, SOMEWHERE. So did Claudette and Dutch! She was only arrested for show purposes!!!!!!

    C'mon everyone. Read into what just happened!

    Now that Vic confessed to EVERYTHING under the fake assumption that his wife was arrested, he filled his own syringe because of Dutch's quick thinking.

    Final episode: Claudette learns of the exact details of the deal Vic was cut. She reads it and verifies that there are no charges at all against Corrine. Therefore, she lets ICE know about it. The deal is voided and the rest is Shield history.

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  • Avatar of HectorHardMode

    HectorHardMode

    [33]Nov 19, 2008
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    PTBounce wrote:

    Final episode: Claudette learns of the exact details of the deal Vic was cut. She reads it and verifies that there are no charges at all against Corrine. Therefore, she lets ICE know about it. The deal is voided and the rest is Shield history.



    But isn't it irrelevant whether or not Corrine was actually arrested or not? Vic's immunity deal was always on the table, Vic merely came in and demanded they also add immunity for Corrine (or whatever it was).
    So Vic will still get immunity as long as he cooperates fully with the Beltran bust and makes sure it's a success (as well as not tip off Ronnie).
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  • Avatar of HawkBat

    HawkBat

    [34]Nov 19, 2008
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    brandoggydog wrote:

    if vic said to ronnie,

    i'm going to take the deal, confess to everything, implicating you in the process. here's the heads up buddy you should go on the run to mexico

    a bullet from ronnies gun would be passing through vic's brain before he got a chance to mention the goat farm

    i'm surprised a lot of you look for mistakes vic might have made, in the man's own words he's "too good"!

    i don't know if mackey can let ronnie go down though. in spite of the show he gave olivia, i don't think he could do as he said.



    I disagree, it has been established in previous episodes that Ronnie has been willing to run to Mexico, and when Vic initially rejected the deal, Ronnie tried to convince Vic to take the deal already.

    So my point still stands, Vic should have warned Ronnie, and just added that to his confession to ICE.
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  • Avatar of bobthebaker

    bobthebaker

    [35]Nov 19, 2008
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    HawkBat wrote:
    brandoggydog wrote:

    if vic said to ronnie,

    i'm going to take the deal, confess to everything, implicating you in the process. here's the heads up buddy you should go on the run to mexico

    a bullet from ronnies gun would be passing through vic's brain before he got a chance to mention the goat farm

    i'm surprised a lot of you look for mistakes vic might have made, in the man's own words he's "too good"!

    i don't know if mackey can let ronnie go down though. in spite of the show he gave olivia, i don't think he could do as he said.

    I disagree, it has been established in previous episodes that Ronnie has been willing to run to Mexico, and when Vic initially rejected the deal, Ronnie tried to convince Vic to take the deal already. So my point still stands, Vic should have warned Ronnie, and just added that to his confession to ICE.

    he didn't really urge vic to take the deal. When vic refused he merely said "thanks vic".

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  • Avatar of HawkBat

    HawkBat

    [36]Nov 19, 2008
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    bobthebaker wrote:
    HawkBat wrote:
    brandoggydog wrote:

    if vic said to ronnie,

    i'm going to take the deal, confess to everything, implicating you in the process. here's the heads up buddy you should go on the run to mexico

    a bullet from ronnies gun would be passing through vic's brain before he got a chance to mention the goat farm

    i'm surprised a lot of you look for mistakes vic might have made, in the man's own words he's "too good"!

    i don't know if mackey can let ronnie go down though. in spite of the show he gave olivia, i don't think he could do as he said.

    I disagree, it has been established in previous episodes that Ronnie has been willing to run to Mexico, and when Vic initially rejected the deal, Ronnie tried to convince Vic to take the deal already. So my point still stands, Vic should have warned Ronnie, and just added that to his confession to ICE.

    he didn't really urge vic to take the deal. When vic refused he merely said "thanks vic".

    I have forgotten his exact words but Ronnie was about to try and convince Vic to take the deal before Vic stopped him. The point I am trying to make is Ronnie would not be so opposed to the plan I suggested to the point of killing Vic before he could sign the deal, as brandoggydog said would happen.
    Edited on 11/19/2008 4:02pm
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [37]Nov 19, 2008
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    I agree.

    Vic should have told Ronnie before he took the deal. In fact he should have told Ronnie the right before he told Olivia to add Corrine to the deal, from what I can tell that was at least a few hours, Ronnie could have been halfway to the goat farm by the time Vic started confusing.

    Since Ronnie is seen with Vic in next weeks trailer I am assuming Vic did not tell Ronnie, which again brings me back to Vic is a cop killing bastard.

    Most likely he figured that if Ronnie ran, it could screw his deal, even if Ronnie left beforehand ICE would figure Vic tipped him off and that would screw his deal. So it came down to Vic or Ronnie and Vic said "Screw friendship."

    I think Vic will probably have some kind of plan to help Ronnie, but he is still a bastard, because at best it is the same play he made with Lem, which was "Hey thanks for covering my ass all these years, I know because of me you are in deep sh*t, well I will help you, but uh I'm not gonna risk my freedom to help you, even though you risked yours to help me."

    Edited on 11/19/2008 4:07pm
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [38]Nov 19, 2008
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    There are too many cookie-cutter shows on TV nowadays like 24 and CSI, where the line dividing the good and bad guys is clear cut, everything is black and white, and in the end, the good guys, like golden-boy-Jack Bauer-who-always-does-the-right-thing-for-his-country-no-matter-what, come out on top.

    And I say....

    The HELL with all that cliched bullsh*t. To HELL with it. I'm sick of shows always being black and white and spoonfeeding the viewer. To all those saying Vic should get the needle, or go to prison for life, are we watching the SAME SHOW??The Shield has NEVER been about black and white, never been about "fair", or "morals", or "justice", it has painstakingly avoided cliches like that for the last 7 years!! It's ALWAYS been GREY, folks! Always.

    For the "bad" guy (Vic) to go down, and the "good" guys (Dutch, Danny, Claudette) to live happily ever after, would be a complete betrayal of Shawn Ryan's original vision for this show. Vic should definitely pay some kind of price, but it should not be jail or the needle. I think he should be standing alive and free at the end of the show, but with absolutely no life, no job, no money, family, or friends----basically, no prospects whatsoever for a decent future. Just an unemployed, lonely ex-cop loser wasting away in some tiny crappy apartment in Farmington. IMO, that would just as bad, if not worse for him, as death or prison.

    (And ironically, all those shows that are so black-and-white and always play it safe, get the HIGHEST ratings. So sad, sad, sad. )

    Edited on 11/19/2008 4:48pm
    Edited 10 total times.
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  • Avatar of Withnail87

    Withnail87

    [39]Nov 19, 2008
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    People, people. Just because Shane is a fugitive wanted for attempted murder doesn't make his testimony regarding an accomplice useless. How the hell do you think most criminals are caught? Why do you think straight up GANGSTERS get deals for ratting on their friends? The word of an accomplice is very strong, and the fact that the accomplice is criminal doesn't make a difference because that is to be expected of..an ACCOMPLICE. Shane could provide a lot of details, corrobating things like the time between the last shot that killed two time and the shot that killed terry. He could tell them how, when, and exactly how the armenian heist went down. He could tell them WHERE THEY KILLED AND BURIED/BURNED GUARDO's body (there will still be remains), corraborated by the girlfriends story of how they kidnapped her to lure Guardo to LA. I mean come on. He can't just throw up his hands and say "Shane's a liar"... not that simple, especially when he has been a suspect in this crimes previously.
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  • Avatar of Plonked

    Plonked

    [40]Nov 19, 2008
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    hurleyjunx666 wrote:

    On the side note, I really hope that Vic can get Ronnie some kind of deal or find some way to get him out of trouble. Or maybe he decides to switch places with Ronnie and gets his deal over to him unless otherwise. I remember during season 5 when Vic told Becca that if she could make a deal where he could trade places with Lem, she should make that deal. However, she never did that. Hopefully, Vic decides to make that kind of arrangement should Ronnie get nabbed. I'd hate for things to end that way with Vic but it would show that he has some kind of heart and character for a guy as tight as Ronnie. If not, Vic is really the cold-hearted guy he came to be in season 1.

    Loved how he paused a long while and finally confessed to killing Terry. I couldn't believe he would confess to that. I'm still finding it difficult to believe that he admitted such a crime.

    There will be no deal now for Ronnie because everytime Ronnie's name would have been mentioned in Vic's confessions they would be writing it down. So I think Ronnie is stuffed. If Claudette is smart she would have taken note to the confession and use it to get Ronnie.

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