The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

"Possible Kill Screen" (S07E12) Official Discussion

  • Avatar of Plonked

    Plonked

    [41]Nov 19, 2008
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    steveuk2010 wrote:
    Amazing episode cant wait for nexted weeks finale. Quick question was there anything major vic left out of his confession as i cant think of anything he left out

    I wonder if Vic mentioned any of the Antwon Mitchell stuff and where the girl was killed be cause of Shane being irresponsible when he was working for Antwon.

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  • Avatar of Plonked

    Plonked

    [42]Nov 19, 2008
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    WHAT AN OPENING!

    Im suprised that Mara didnt go into labour with the amount of pain she was in, and taking those pills was pretty silly. Shane hooked on drugs I too hope his story doesnt end with him over dosing or doing somthing stupid and he gets caught.

    I was expecting the cops to be busting in after Shane held up Tina and taking off on foot. Thought Tina would have called it in and telling them the direction he took on in.

    I almost thought for a minute when Vic kept pausing before he confessed that he would say no sorry I changed my mind.

    Vic telling Ronnie that they should take the deal and it doesnt matter what happens with Shane, I couldnt believe he said that. Me I would have taken the deal and continued to go after Shane.

    Vic selling out Ronnie like that, I was a little suprised but I shouldnt have been, come'on this is Vic here.

    4 episodes ago we saw Danni leave and Vic and Ronnie talking about Ronnie running to Mexico, then this episode its all happened in a matter of a few days. I heard Dutch say something along the lines of a few things have changed in the few day you had off. I was like WHAT THE. Thought she had been gone for at least a week.

    I have no idea of how its going to end. Would like to see Ronnie get away though.

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  • Avatar of AlexKrycec

    AlexKrycec

    [43]Nov 19, 2008
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    hypothetically, what if ronnie has been working undercover on vic for some time, we'll say about two years or more. maybe after lem's death he couldn't take any more. remember how vic told ronnie that he killed terry after shane threatened to drop the document of strike team sins? could vic's confession from earlier still be used against him?

    if ronnie had collected other evidence, that would be helpful to. say, for instance, money from the money train (w/ vics fingerprints on it). just an idea.
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  • Avatar of DerMeister1

    DerMeister1

    [44]Nov 19, 2008
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    Vic pausing before confessing all, had me thinking he realized/thought Olivia and her boss was setting him up (they kept exchanging weird looks). I was yelling at the TV for Vic NOT to confess in case it was a setup, LOL!

    I really don't think Vic is going to let Ronnie twist in the wind, he's telling Olivia what she wants to hear. Vic does have a moral compass even though it is askew.

    Claudette losing it with Dutch was fantastic! I could even hear CCH Pounder's island accent. Dutch and the teenage killer...something is definitely going to happen.

    They brought Danni back so she could pick up Corinne kids from school, ha! Billings (simple minded, no working, I'm going to sue moron)should get Das Boot

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  • Avatar of skreech1234

    skreech1234

    [45]Nov 19, 2008
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    What about the stuff Vic did before he killed Terry? I realize that was probably the biggest thing he did but if you think about it, Terry was put on the Strike Team to bring them down for stuff they had already done. He didn't just become the guy he was by killing Terry, he was that guy before. That was just the first thing WE saw. Obviously there is more than we know of. Would a couple of hours be enough time to tell about 15 years of crimes?
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [46]Nov 20, 2008
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    I was just thinking about this this morning. VIC IS A BIGGER BASTARD THAN WE THOUGHT!!!!!!!!

    I thinl Tuesday night a lot of us said "Damn Vic I know you were a bad guy, but didn't think you would ever sell out your friend!" But even so I think we also felt "well from his point of view it was either Ronnie or Corrine, and Corrine is the mother of his children, I mean he would be a bastard if he let her go to jail.

    Under these circumstances Vic is just a normal size bastard, because he could have made the deal for Ronnie and Corrine and left himself out, like saying "Look I will get Beltran, and but since I have to put Ronnie on the line I need protection for him, if you can get me protection too that would be great, but I need to Corrine and Ronnie are covered before I do anything." I mean that would have been the noble honorable thing to do. But let's face it few people in the world would fall on the sword for their friends like that. So you could almost say Vic was just guilty of being human and looking out for himself.

    But then I thought about it again. He could have saved Ronnie, Corrine and himself. His deal covered all the crimes he committed up to that point that he admitted to, including the one he committed by giving Corrine the money, if that's the case what's one more crime? All Vic had to do was warn Ronnie "Look Corrine is in trouble, I got to take this ICE deal, I am going to have to come clean about everything, you gotta run." Ronnie runs, Vic signs on the dotted line, he confesses to everything he ever did and then at the end says "and my last crime was aiding Ronnie getting out of the country." BAM! Ronnie's safe, Corrine is safe, Vic is safe. The only reason Vic would not have done that is because he feels he needs Ronnie to take down Beltran, in which case I go back to Vic is a total bastard.

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  • Avatar of dgranitz2004

    dgranitz2004

    [47]Nov 20, 2008
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    Wow, this was my personal favorite episode ever of this show. I always thought they'd wait to have his final confession right before he got the needle, but I LOVE that they got it over with in the second to last episode so they don't waste time in the finale. Watching Vic for the first time, finally, be able to come clean about all that stuff, was ridiculous. I loved every moment of it. A couple things I REALLY loved:

    1. As a poster pointed out above, Dutch was the one who got vic to take the immunity deal and come clean. That was ingenious on the side of the writers, and also, it was interesting to see him NOT freak out when Vic got immunity. Remember in season 3, he rode aceveda to look into the strike team, and then he aided Kavy...but now he genuinely seems to be more worried for claudette than he was upset about not being able to nail vic. She clearly was more personally invested as he was, and its nice to know he isn't going to make taking down vic some kind of final personal vendetta, losing control, energy, and sanity to nail vic, as claudette seems to be doing. 2. It was funny hearing the things being said to dutch from claudette, because in theory they could actually indeed be applied to dutch-he got a little girl raped in 2nd season, another woman raped in 3rd season, so he has done a lot of crap she let slide or can claim she cleaned up-BUT what she was saying, all those things she was spewing at dutch were actually the things she wanted to say to mackay...but she was so upset, so momentarily insane, that she was saying them to dutch because she couldn't exert that power onto mackay anymore. It reminds me of when Kavauagh said all those things to corrine at the beginning of the season 5 finale in her house, when clearly the things he was saying were meant for his wife, not her. Like corrine replied to him, "what are you talking about?," Dutch pretty much said the same thing to claduette, "what? huh? this isn't you claudette."

    3. Vic used his autistic children to further his career, i.e., in a political manner. Remember in season 5 when he told Becca he wouldn't put his sick kids on display to save his own butt, and then in season 6 he went on this righteous highground, making a bold statement that he wouldn't use his kids to save his career? On a deeper level, in the season six finale, they were trying to show the difference between a politican and a cop...a politican would use his sick kids right away for the sympathetic vote, and that's why aceveda suggested it first as the only option. But vic walked out because he was a cop, not a politican. Well, now he is an employee of the federal government, and no matter what level or rung of the gov't you are apart of, they are still considered positions built on politics, and thats why they were shown in suits. Well, vic is no longer a cop, and metaphorically speaking, much closer to political piece of crap than he's ever been, so watching him use his children was insane, ridiculous, and I applaud the writers. Vic thinks he's such a standup guy, that he "looks people in the eyes" and "tells them the truth" and that he is not a rat who plays politics, but tonight, they showed us how he has successfully and undeniably compromised his own claim that he's not a biatch...that he's nothing like Shane or Aceveda...

    4. Speaking of which, Vic finally went rat on ronnie. While they made us still root for him to sign those papers-me and my friends were screaming sign it! sign it!-because it was the best case senario for our anti-hero, which of course we, on some level, want for him, he still went rat. Remember right before shane dropped the grenade into lem's lap, he told him that Mara was pregnant again and that its "all about family, right?" So, Shane really did believe that killing lem was being done to protect his family-which at the time also included ronnie and vic. Now, whether or not it made the most sense or was the brightest decision he's made in a LONG time to take the immunity behind ronnies back, he still took it...and taking immunity and confessing to yours AND your partners crimes, even if for a job, is still going rat. He gave them ronnie on a platter, if only to protect his family, JUST LIKE SHANE. He can no longer claim, "You and Me, we're nothing alike" and must now, rather, accept that he's "looking through a mirror" when he looks at Shane. Sure, shane is worse and the writers have worked hard to show that and to make us hate him more, but at the end of the day, they are now both cop-killing, evil, pieces of crap, rats. BUT, I fully believe Vic will end up giving himself up, and "Manning up" to his crime and taking his punishment of the needle, in order to prove to himself that he's not as big of a biatch as Shane. He was willing to face the concequences instead of running away. I just find it so fascinating after all the years of vic saying that killing terry was okay because he was a rat, and how he couldn't handle rats or biatches because they don't "look you in the eyes" and now he becomes one of those people. Or, perhaps, just shows his true colors we had never seen.

    5. Clearly though, we know vic and we know that even though he took the deal behind ronnies back, he is still going to try to help him get to mexico. Well, we finally know what character will be sent to mexico to die alone, as we had all long suspected and tried to guess that one of the main characters would in fact do that. In the end, I don't think Vic can live with himself if he doesn't make a real effort to save ronnie, to put him on the run as he so sloppingly did with Lem. That's what I think will nail his immunity, as the writers carefully and purposely had Olivia lay out that if he did that specific thing-help ronnie run-it would terminate his deal and he'd be prosecuted.

    6. Vic's confession was pure creative genius. Amazing. I would have loved to see much more of it, but I don't even have to critque this perfect piece of art, except to note that not once did they show us vic blaming aceveda or implicating aceveda for/in the things he did. That's a big deal, because I have felt for the last half season that aceveda would be the only one standing in the end, as to implicitly and exlicitly show that politics are above the rule of law...

    7. Speaking of aceveda, my absolute favorite part of the episode. Remember in the second episode of the series, aceveda would stop at nothing to nail vic for killing terry-vic actually referenced that tonight along with kavy which made me really happy! because I've always thought of aceveda as the 2nd or 3rd most important character IMO-but interesting enough, it is aceveda that gets vic his deal, who gets him immunity for killing terry. It is aceveda who is the one who, we are made to believe before the finale at least, who makes sure vic can never be tried for terry. I love how this has brought the show full circle. They now respect each other's endgames, which for aceveda is a big deal because he wanted to take down vic so that he could essentially be in control of vic's endgame...well, he sort of was, it was just the exact opposite way that we thought it would happen! And, he did of course to keep the drugs off the street...he played with the fire that is vic to be a cop; to make sure the bad guys are brought in, even if that means to help and be loyal to one bad guy (think of vics arrangements with drug dealers and criminals). Because aceveda did that for him, he showed his loyalty to vic, and I believe that is the reason we did not hear him implicate aceveda in his confession, and why I don't think he'll "burn the department starting with aceveda." Instead, I think he will respect what aceveda did for him, respect his endgame, and never reveal that he had Juan killed. Instead, I truly believe aceveda will be Mayor in the end. What a powerful couple of scenes with david and vic, I just can't get over them!

    8. Shane doing drugs! ha! so funny! that was hinted at way back in season season when vic told him to do a line of blow and he seemed completely down. I also loved that they had him mention he did meth and oxycontin, the 2 most popular drugs among white trash hick mo fo's. just like Shane, hahaha. "I had weed, meth, and oxy, but I HAD to do them all." Hahah frickin Shane, you got nothing left. I love it. Can't wait to see you eat a bullet.

    Well, thats all from here. My personal favorite episode ever, though certainly not creatively their ultimate best. The tables are finally turned and all the pieces are in place for Vic to get the needle. All he's got to do is try to help ronnie get to mexico, and he's SCREWED. As glenn close said in season 4 "You're gonna get the needle for killing a cop and I'm gonna be there to watch." This time around, we will be, oh yes, we will be there to watch. So will his entire family, which makes sense as the title is "family meeting." I have never been more certain that its NEEDLE time. I won't be back on here til after the finale, so here's my fingers crossed for the lethal injection. I'll leave you with vic's insightful words from this episode:

    "I've done worse." And now you must pay.
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [48]Nov 20, 2008
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    Another thing I was thinking was...... THEY CAN STILL CATCH VIC!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well Dutch can, Claudette isn't smart or clever enough. Dutch just needs to pull the same plan Monica and Vic used to catch Antwon.

    Dutch arrest Ronnie for the stuff they already have him on. Dutch tells Ronnie that Vic took the ICE deal and left him twisting in the wind. Ronnie says "you're full of ****" So to prove it Dutch starts talking about the stuff Vic admitted to that no one but the strike team is suppose to know about Dutch saying "how would I know if Vic didn't say something." Maybe get Ronnie to call Vic, and ask about the ICE deal for the both of them, Vic will give some kind of lie, and once Ronnie knows Vic sold him out. Dutch tells Ronnie, "Vic gave up enough **** on you that you will never see day light again."

    After Dutch convinces Ronnie that his life is over and Vic sold him out, offer him a life line. "Hey we don't want you, we want Vic. What's the job he is doing for ICE? You tell us that and we will cut you deal" It would be nice if they gave him witness protection, but honestly they could just cut his senstence from life to 20 years and Ronnie would be a fool not to jump at it. But let's be hopeful, Ronnie says "Vic has made a lot of friends in gangs if I cross him he can have me killed within a few hours, I need witness protection." So Ronnie get's witness protection, and gives up the who, what, where, when, why, and hows of the ICE deal.

    Dutch has the Barn cops at the drug warehouse as soon as Beltran is there with the drugs, the Cops go in and bust Beltran. Now Beltran is in the custody of the Barn.

    With Beltran out of play, Vic's deal is void, and ICE can use his statements against him. ICE arrest vic, maybe ICE and the barn make a trade Beltran for Vic.

    Vic gets the needle, Ronnie lives out his life in a Witness Protection, Shane ODs on bad meth, Claudette is killed under the weight of her own self-rigousness, and Dutch is made Captain of the Barn and finally has the three way with Tina and Danni (oh what the hell throw Corrine in there too) and everyone lives happly ever after.

    Edited on 11/20/2008 7:18am
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  • Avatar of Prigal

    Prigal

    [49]Nov 20, 2008
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    i really don't know why people "hate" or waiting for vic to fall (needdle or jail). vic is the most difficult character to hate or just look at him as reaglur bad person. like i said, he is so different from tony soprano who was selfish and david chase played with that like a mastermind. vic allways was loyal to his friends and family, he never took money for his own pleasure. yes, he finally "used", his children, we allways knew he will do everything for them, he had to.

    i said that he was allways loyal, that why i still think he won't sell out ronnie and i think he warned him just before he went to sigh the deal, beacuse he had to, beacuse he saw the mother of his children get arrested. that why the writers made vic decline the first time he got offered, but when corine got arrested, that changed everything. that why i think he warned ronnie, beacuse we never saw vic at list tell roonie that corine got arrested. and i think that in the last episode we will come back to that time between corine got arrested to the moment vic said that he agrees to sigh.

    another thing is shawn ryan. like someone here said, he has a vision, not everthing is black and white. so i don"t think it's gonna end like hollywood, when the bad guy just go to prison and that it. maybe he will die in some way. but not in a hollywood way, like the bad guy got what he deserve.. way.

    claudette for exmple. is not shown as a great person. maybe she is a great officer. she seems and shown as self-righteous, the writers put the bilings story line in the last episode to show that, how dutch and claudette self-righteousness, hurt thier friendships, that was shown when she fired dutch and blamed him for cutting corners and all. so ryan is saying something here, yes, vic is a criminal, he did horrible things, but he at list loyal to the people he love. claudette did just the opposite.

    i think it's gonna end in some way like the sopranos, yes, vic still free (maybe ronnie as well), but his life is not a life, he is alone with no friends or his family and some way paranoid, and he can't trust anyone.

    Edited on 11/20/2008 8:14am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [50]Nov 20, 2008
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    The reason people are hating on Vic is because he did sell Ronnie out.

    Vic is a horrible but likable character and I think last night was just a reminder of that.

    People keep saying "oh he will warn Ronnie" but it is really too late for that. Ronnie is now basically part of the deal that keeps Vic out of jail, just like Beltran. If Vic warns Ronnie or if it just appears that Vic might have warned Ronnie, Vic's deal is done. So basically when Vic gets Beltran he needs to get Ronnie at the same time.

    Then the other theory is Vic warned Ronnie before hand. Well that would be nice, in theory. But then why would Ronnie be around still, he is in the trailer for next week. Ronnie should be well on his way to the goat farm. Plus why didn't Vic admit to that. In fact IMO that is what makes Vic a bastard. If he helped get Ronnie out of the country before he signed the deal he could simply confess to it all with all his other sins. I mean in comparison helping Ronnie escape is small potatoes.

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  • Avatar of rkd1234

    rkd1234

    [51]Nov 20, 2008
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    So, do they mean that Shane has been doing drugs for a long time or just since the time of Lem's death?
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  • Avatar of Greenlit829

    Greenlit829

    [52]Nov 20, 2008
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    Shane hasn't "been doing drugs", where'd you get that idea? He did drugs once when he found out Lem didn't rat, and was forced to snort coke in "Possible Kill Screen" to keep his cover, and then he crashed, or "cratered", as he called it, and needed to snort the blow he stole from the dealer(WAL-MART) to even himself out. All in all though, I think trying to jack dangerous thugs that you befriended while you were undercover, when you have a little kid and a pregnant wife at home, is just BEYOND stupid. Shane should just keep doing coke and OD, he hasn't got any brain cells left to kill. What a dumbass.

    Why the hell don't they just cross the border with what little money they have, and Shane can maybe find some crappy temporary job in Mexico while Mara has the baby and they try to find some way out of their situation??

    Edited on 11/20/2008 3:08pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of rkd1234

    rkd1234

    [53]Nov 20, 2008
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    Ah OK, I must have misinterpreted some of the posts in this topic. I'm yet to see the episode.
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  • Avatar of halfblack3128

    halfblack3128

    [54]Nov 20, 2008
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    Damn that was an awesome episode, cant wait till the finale. I wonder whats gonna happen with Ronnie now. Hes always been a fairly good guy, Id hate to see him end up dead or in jail. I wonder if ICE will work with the Barn to get the drugs before Vic does and mess up his immunity deal.
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  • Avatar of fangsanalsatan

    fangsanalsatan

    [55]Nov 20, 2008
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    To everyone who thinks Vic could have warned Ronnie and then confessed:

    Don't you think Beltran would get suspicious, if Ronnie didn't show up at the meeting? Vic basically shoved him down Beltrans throat so Ronnie could get the deal with ICE. I suppose it wouldn't be possible for Ronnie to back out of the meeting without risking Vics life.

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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [56]Nov 20, 2008
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    fangsanalsatan wrote:

    To everyone who thinks Vic could have warned Ronnie and then confessed:

    Don't you think Beltran would get suspicious, if Ronnie didn't show up at the meeting? Vic basically shoved him down Beltrans throat so Ronnie could get the deal with ICE. I suppose it wouldn't be possible for Ronnie to back out of the meeting without risking Vics life.

    No not really. Why would Beltran care that much? Or really at all? Just like ICE Vic is the person who Beltran is making his deal with, Ronnie is just "his guy on the police force."

    And even if you assume Beltran would be suspicious, I really doubt he would be like "What Gardoki is not here? THIS IS A SET UP!!!!! YOU DIE NOW!!!!!!" At most he Beltran would just say why didn't your friend come? Vic could make up some any BS story. "I thought he was man enough to handle this, I guess I was wrong." "He's in the middle of a double murder case, he'll get here when can." Or the best one "He's at the barn monitoring police actives, he'll give us a heads up if anything goes down."

    But let's assume that there is even a 50% chance that Beltran would even care that Ronnie is not there. It is the exact same type of situtation as Shane and Lem, if he is unsure he should err on the side of helping his friend. Unless Beltran said to Vic " If Ronnie is not there I will kill you," unless he used those exact words, Vic should have put Ronnie's safety ahead of his deal.

    Edited on 11/20/2008 6:24pm
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  • Avatar of thekatman24

    thekatman24

    [57]Nov 20, 2008
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    Just an aside, did anyone notice a barely audible ticking in the backround as we were waiting for vic to spill. I thought that was set up beautifully. I have to say this ep left me stunned and sick at the same time. It is amazing that as time has gone by, the shield has gotten stronger and more intense unlike anything i've seen before. Truly classic.
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    lynna12000

    [58]Nov 21, 2008
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    Has anyone considered the possibility that Vic made contingency plans in case a situation like this came up? Come on, a career cop like Mackey has to have at least thought about being caught. I wouldn't be surprised if his recorded confession didn't disappear, and Vic manages to pin everything on Shane; especially if Shane od's. And the OD'ing seems quite likely. Pinning everything on (dead) Shane leaves Vic and Ronnie in the clear. And quite likely with hidden stashes of cash.
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  • Avatar of blknge

    blknge

    [59]Nov 21, 2008
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    I loved just the consturction in a lot of these scenes, the lighting on Shane's face during the night as he's in despair with Mara, again with him pointing his gun at Tina, then the best is of course when the camera zooms and focuses on Vic, I mean Victor's mouth when he says he killed Terry. It's those kind of aspects to these episodes I love the most.

    Anybody down with gambling with dgranitz2004 that Vic will get it. Place our bets now.

    Edited on 11/21/2008 7:32am
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  • Avatar of shortz420

    shortz420

    [60]Nov 21, 2008
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    ok so i agree with you but.... corinne knows some stuff too! not only the whole 1oo grand for shane but the money she had to hold for mackey back in the day and she told kav about that too! so VIC could not take a chance on that! he had to come clean.. it was great!!! POOR ronnie.. I hope that VIC has a plan but then again he is a cold hearted bastard
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