The Shield Forums

FX (ended 2008)

Vic vs. Shane (how they commit murder)

  • Avatar of gabriel927

    gabriel927

    [1]May 8, 2007
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    Does Vic's action against Terry synonymous with Shane's action against Lem?
    Edited on 05/08/2007 10:37pm
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  • Avatar of NeoDio24

    NeoDio24

    [2]May 9, 2007
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    Well Vic killed Terry because he was gonna send the whole strike team to jail, put the hit on Armadillo for what he did to Ronnie and the raped girls, killed Margos to calm down the money train investigation and for killing the little girl.
    Shane was already planning to kill Shane when he pocketed a grenade even before Aceveda lied about Lem talking about the money train, Lem was family and was gonna take the hit down solo, and he would have never betrayed the team.

    No murder is legally covered, but Shane's actions were worse than Vic's in my opinion, Vic killed the bad guys, Shane killed a brother.
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  • Avatar of greenbat22

    greenbat22

    [3]May 9, 2007
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    Terry was never a friend but a threat to Vic and the gang. Lem was more than a friend, and his (dis)loyalty was questionable to the end. Shane can reason that he was making the big call so Vic wouldn't have to but he was desperate to stay in the clear...desperate about his situation at home and desperate to duck the two guys who might stop him from killing the perceived threat to his welfare.

    It's tough to judge the acts of murder because both men essentially killed to protect themselves, and with a degree of secrecy from their own. I find it easier to judge the responses. Terry, in the end, was a genuine rat and Vic can only wonder what he might have done differently to remove him. Lem, in the end, wasn't a rat and you have Shane pardoning himself and using Vic to excuse himself. There's no doubt which of these killers I want walking away this season.

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  • Avatar of AG19

    AG19

    [4]May 9, 2007
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    Terry was neither a rat nor an enemy to the Strike Team, he was just a cop doing his job. If the Strike Team had done their job more than skimming cash off the side they wouldn't have to kill Terry just to hide it. I could use that same reasoning to say that it's worst to kill Terry than Lem because Lem was nothing but a crooked cop while Terry was a geniune fed doing his job. I don't actually believe that, but it's a point that could be made. At the end of the day murder is murder, and both cases are the same.
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  • Avatar of marvelfan89

    marvelfan89

    [5]May 9, 2007
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    AG19 wrote:
    Terry was neither a rat nor an enemy to the Strike Team, he was just a cop doing his job. If the Strike Team had done their job more than skimming cash off the side they wouldn't have to kill Terry just to hide it. I could use that same reasoning to say that it's worst to kill Terry than Lem because Lem was nothing but a crooked cop while Terry was a geniune fed doing his job. I don't actually believe that, but it's a point that could be made. At the end of the day murder is murder, and both cases are the same.

    I couldn't agree more.

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  • Avatar of torque4015

    torque4015

    [6]May 9, 2007
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    In my opinion niether one of them was jutisfied in what they did Vic shot another cop in cold blood. Shane killed a freind they both should go down for what they did.

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  • Avatar of hmnut7

    hmnut7

    [7]May 9, 2007
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    Shane's murder is only worst because Lem was his friend. But in a court of law that really would not matter.

    Vic committed cold blooded murder which can not be justified at all.

    Vic killing Terry may even be worst because it showcases how bad a guy Vic must be. Why did Vic kill Terry, to cover up a crime, what was the crime, working with a drug dealer, the murder he committed was far worst than the crime he was trying to cover up. Both David and Kav have said that the most likely thing that could happen to Vic would be that he losses his badge, prison was always a threat just to get Vic to play ball and confess. So basically Vic killed Terry so he could keep his badge and keep commiting crimes.

    Both Shane and Vic are going to hell, niether of them are good guys.

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  • Avatar of martize

    martize

    [8]May 10, 2007
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    The way Vic killed Terry was cold blooded and Shane was at least right about the fact that Vic is being a hypocrite.  However, Vic knew Terry was there to investigate his team from the start.  While Shane made the decision to kill Lem on his own and they had a problem a season or so back.  It was Vic's decision to make and also the fact that they all knew Lem and were friends for a long time.  Unlike, Terry who was a friend of Acaveda!

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  • Avatar of NeoDio24

    NeoDio24

    [9]May 11, 2007
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    Well unfortunately Terry's job was working undercover to bring the strike team to justice, so on Vic's mind it was justified because he thought him as an enemy who was gonna harm his family.

    Lemansky, like Kavanaugh said, was the "guy with the conscience", the most "clean" guy on the Srike Team (besides Tavon - what happened to poor Tavon too?), also Lem only took the dam heroin to HELP Shane, Lem "sacrificed" himself to save Shane, taking the heroin from Pitarrio as leverage until they found Angie's body with Shane's bullets on her.
    Despite that Shane killed Lemansky, and...Vic would never kill Lem, he loved him too much for that, even after Aceveda acting like a ***** lying about Lem, Vic wasn't gonna do anything before he looked straight in Lem's eyes.. Shane did look at Lem's eyes, Lem told him the truth, that he was gonna take the hit down solo, do his time and never betray the Strike Team.

    Both cop killers in the legal way, but most people Vic killed were a threat, Terry, Margos, Armadillo...only Guardo was unjustified, but Shane taking down a brother like Curtis, also acting cocky about it...unforgivable.
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  • Avatar of AG19

    AG19

    [10]May 11, 2007
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    NeoDio24 wrote:
    Well unfortunately Terry's job was working undercover to bring the strike team to justice, so on Vic's mind it was justified because he thought him as an enemy who was gonna harm his family. Lemansky, like Kavanaugh said, was the "guy with the conscience", the most "clean" guy on the Srike Team (besides Tavon - what happened to poor Tavon too?), also Lem only took the dam heroin to HELP Shane, Lem "sacrificed" himself to save Shane, taking the heroin from Pitarrio as leverage until they found Angie's body with Shane's bullets on her. Despite that Shane killed Lemansky, and...Vic would never kill Lem, he loved him too much for that, even after Aceveda acting like a ***** lying about Lem, Vic wasn't gonna do anything before he looked straight in Lem's eyes.. Shane did look at Lem's eyes, Lem told him the truth, that he was gonna take the hit down solo, do his time and never betray the Strike Team. Both cop killers in the legal way, but most people Vic killed were a threat, Terry, Margos, Armadillo...only Guardo was unjustified, but Shane taking down a brother like Curtis, also acting cocky about it...unforgivable.

    Yeah but Lem was a dirty cop, a criminal really. Terry was just a cop doing what he was supposed to do.

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  • Avatar of darkveng

    darkveng

    [11]May 14, 2007
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    Main thing to remember is that Vic wasn't just working with Rondell to skim money. He was backing and protecting one drug dealer over all the others because that allowed him to keep the peace and regulate the drug trade on the streets (i.e. no dealing to children, no hits involving civilians, no targeting cops). That's always been the deal with Vic...he's willing to get dirty to serve the greater good, and if he happens to make some extra money along the way, he feels he's owed that for the kind of risks he has to take to get the job done.

    That's the magic of the show. Vic breaks the rules again and again, but when you see his moral code, when you see what he is able to get done...well, you start to like the guy, and even root for him. So Terry wasn't just a threat to their money, their careers, or their freedom...he was a threat to all the progress they had made in Farmington. They were doing what they felt they HAD to do to get the job done.

    Plus, we know that loyalty is one of Mackey's hot buttons. So when he found out Terry was selling out the team, he and Shane made a snap decision that Terry had to go. Since he had only been on the team a few weeks, it wasn't like they had much invested in that relationship...and Shane STILL had a couple moments in season 1 where he seemed like he could crack.

    Shane has always thought of himself as being like Vic, but he's not. He's not as smart, not as tough, he's got a big mouth and a temper, and he can be rattled pretty easily. We saw that in season 4, and it manifested itself in seasons 5 & 6. And that's why as soon as that grenade went off, every fan of the Shield knew Vic was going to find out. To be honest, Shane didn't last nearly as long as I thought he might.

    Lem was not a rat, he was willing to go to prison for the team, even without a deal to keep himself safe. He just didn't want to run anymore. The irony is that the brick of heroin that Emolia busted him on was the same brick the Strike Team thought they were using to protect her from Gusano.

    Neither one is a forgivable act, but we now have enough insight into the Strike Team and Mackey's moral code to see the difference between the two murders (which I think is a testament to the show's creators).

    But there's more at play here. Kavanaugh effectively sealed Lem's fate the moment he made the deal with Antwon Mitchell, Shane just ended up being the one to do the deed. Lem's blood is just as much on Antwon and Kavanaugh's hands as it is on Shane's. Not to mention that Aceveda also used Mitchell to put the hit on his rapist.

    Very few people on this show are clean. That's the beauty of it...it's not black & white, but many many shades of grey.
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  • Avatar of darkveng

    darkveng

    [12]May 14, 2007
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    NeoDio24 wrote:
    what happened to poor Tavon?


    Lem and Vic convinced him in the hospital that he had hit (the then-pregnant) Mara. This kept him from reporting anything about his fight with Shane before the accident. He broke down in tears and asked them to bring Mara there so he could say how sorry he was.

    He was pretty badly injured, and had been contemplating a transfer even before his run-in with Shane. Given that was the only thing he could have burned the team with (he was pretty well sealed off from anything dirty), it's a pretty safe bet he either transferred or left the force.
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  • Avatar of Corko21

    Corko21

    [13]May 15, 2007
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    marvelfan89 wrote:

    AG19 wrote:
    Terry was neither a rat nor an enemy to the Strike Team, he was just a cop doing his job. If the Strike Team had done their job more than skimming cash off the side they wouldn't have to kill Terry just to hide it. I could use that same reasoning to say that it's worst to kill Terry than Lem because Lem was nothing but a crooked cop while Terry was a geniune fed doing his job. I don't actually believe that, but it's a point that could be made. At the end of the day murder is murder, and both cases are the same.

    I couldn't agree more.

    I completely agree that both men murdered, and that both should have to pay for what they've done. However, I think Shane is the most worthless/evil of the two, as the man he killed was his best friend. In addition, he was the man who saved his worthless redneck ass from being in jail to begin with. He was also the guy who was willing to go to jail himself to protect Vic, Ronnie and he who shall not be named. As for Vic, I would like to see Vic come to terms with the fact that he deserves to pay for what he has done, but I doubt he will do that. So I hope at least that he makes Shane pay.

    This question is what makes the Shield such a good show. I hope that in the final season they explore the demons that Vic has battled over killing Terry (or show once and for all that he truly hasn't been remorseful at all). That would be a great way to finish the show.

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  • Avatar of Golden_surfer

    Golden_surfer

    [14]May 15, 2007
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    None of the deaths can be justified, but from whithin the Strike team point of view, Shane is way worst than vic because while Terry was already a verified and complete threat, lem wasn't. He was willing to take the hit and shane knew this, he was just scared that lem would break.

    Shane didn't even care lem was going to jail for helping him. Vic would've never allowed that and would have taken the fall if necessary with the rest of the team.

    So imo, shane's actions are way worst from that certain point of view.
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  • Avatar of stuckeyc2

    stuckeyc2

    [15]May 15, 2007
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    I have been reading stuff about vic and how hes a murderer and all this **** If you dont like Vic why do you watch the show? Vic is this show. Its like watching 24 and hating Jack Bauer. Bauer has killed innocent men. Is he a cold blooded murderer? The bottom line is we shouldnt be having this comparison between the two. Shane killed lem. A friend a brother a partner.
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  • Avatar of ali_tv_fan

    ali_tv_fan

    [16]Jul 23, 2011
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    Terry was a rat. He agreed to investigate the strike Team to further Acevedas political Agenda - he wasn't undercover at all.

    Shane murdered Lem to protect himself, Vic shot Terry to protect the team.

    Shane was far worse in my mind.
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  • Avatar of Romano338

    Romano338

    [17]Oct 9, 2013
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    I don't see one better than the other.
    You have to look at it from distance.
    Reading that killing Terry was ok because he was a rat, I say WTF???? He was the good guy in the story.
    But the show is done in a way that you put yourself on Vic's side and everything against him is bad.
    So Shane is bad because Vic was against what Shane did. Killing a good cop trying to bring corruption down is good because Vic was ok with it.

    But if you look at it objectively, none is a good thing.
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