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Official Episode Discussion 2.16: "The House Guest"

  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [21]Feb 25, 2011
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    So, since Matt drank Caroline's blood & died is he going to become a vampire now??

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    KingofIPirates

    [22]Feb 25, 2011
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    alirk wrote:

    So, since Matt drank Caroline's blood & died is he going to become a vampire now??

    When did Matt die?
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    jstitely1

    [23]Feb 25, 2011
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    was anyone else cheering loudly when damon pushed katherine off of him at the end? haha

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    ionee24

    [24]Feb 25, 2011
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:
    AllieAllie wrote:
    Didn't see Luka and Jonas' deaths coming. But then the deaths are always unpredictable. XD Feel a bit bad for Greta, I think thats the name of his daughter...



    Actually, it felt like watching a show about the villains and actually watching the bad guys win in the name of their "mastermind" Elena: What the heckwas that?! What makes it okay for a whole family to be wiped out - you just know Luka's sister won't survive this one - in order to please Elena.


    Didn't the Martins took Stefan out of the tomb in time for their "romantic" weekend at the lake? Didn't they spare Caroline from the werewolves so she could "sing a tune" tonight? Weren't they used, abused and killed at Elena's whim because Elijah made a deal with her?


    What kind of show is this?!

    MovieMark wrote:
    Ionee, I agreed with your review, but I don't neccearily agree with your opinion of Elena: she didn't do anything. She didn't force Katherine to kill Jonas, she didn't force Damon to kill Luka, either. The Martins weren't exactly innocent. No one is innocent in this game.


    Elena didn't stop them either so I have no other choice but to blame her for the atrocities committed in her name too, regardless how desperate the Martins may have been they were a family and now they are dust. The showcan'task me to be okay with that.



    I don't believe she was even aware of what was going on as she wouldn't have known that Luka was conducting a psychic assault or that Katherine took it upon herself to take her place and trick Jonas.


    I don't believe Elena was dumb enough not to figure out as much considering she was smart enough to use Elijah's witches to free Stefan and fetch Caroline: why would Jonas's family be less important to him than her boyfriend was to Elena Gilbert?

    Edited on 02/25/2011 1:27pm
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  • Avatar of alirk

    alirk

    [25]Feb 25, 2011
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    alirk wrote:


    So, since Matt drank Caroline's blood & died is he going to become a vampire now??


    When did Matt die?


    I was under the impression that he died...Did her blood keep him from dying??

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    KingofIPirates

    [26]Feb 25, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:
    I don't believe Elena was dumb enough not to figure out as much considering
    Your not making sense. Even if she figured it out after the fact; if she's not made privy beforehand to Damon killing Luka with a flamethrower(when Damon didn't even know himself what exactly was going) or Katherine taking her place and going out of her way to take out Jonas how is she culpable for their actions?
    ionee24 wrote:
    she was smart enough to use Elijah's witches to free Stefan and fetch Caroline
    When did she use Elijah's witches in that situation? Jonas was simply carrying out Elijah's promise to Elena and looking out for them like he said he would. Elena also wasn't aware of the events that took place during the rescue attempt as she still was asking Stefan what happened after he came home.
    ionee24 wrote:
    why would Jonas's family be less important to him than her boyfriend was to Elena Gilbert?
    But he's the one that initiated the attack.



    alirk wrote:

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    alirk wrote:


    So, since Matt drank Caroline's blood & died is he going to become a vampire now??


    When did Matt die?


    I was under the impression that he died...Did her blood keep him from dying??

    Yes it did.
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    isildurelendil

    [27]Feb 25, 2011
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    Plenty of Elena and Salvatore hate. The Martins weren't exactly the innocent victims here. They wanted to commit something tantamount to murder. It was,as Damon put it, "Kill or be Killed". That aside, if Jonas wanted Elijah so bad, why didn't he go up to the boarding house, incapacitate whoever was there, and pull out the dagger himself? He ha no problems dealing with multiple werewolves so 2 vampires shouldn't be much. Also, Elijah's plan was to use the witch's graveyard to power Jonas enough to kill an "inebriated" Klaus after the sacrifice? Wow. I wonder how they're gonna accomplish that with a healthy one. Interesting ending with Isobel showing up as well.

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    ionee24

    [28]Feb 25, 2011
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    Isobel showing up was the only interesting part of the episode, everything else was blah blah Klaus blah on the vampire front. Seriously, the dude sounds just like Elijah: What's new about him?
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    d_mandal_0

    [29]Feb 25, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:
    Isobel showing up was the only interesting part of the episode, everything else was blah blah Klaus blah on the vampire front. Seriously, the dude sounds just like Elijah: What's new about him?


    There was plenty interesting stuff happening all over the place. You must have been busy blaming Elena for everything to notice. She didn't even do anything in this episode. Why not blame Damon? He's the one who killed Luka. Knowingly.


    Anyway I don't care about any of that. There are no good guys or bad guys. People die. On this show people die everyday. I assume if the show were called The Witch Diaries vampires would die instead of the witches. Face it - on BTVS we wanted the vampires to die and on Charmed we were rooting for the witches - we pull for the protagonist. Tonight it was man-witch who made the choice to betray the Salvatores who had come to him to help. It was man-witch's choice that led to this - Luka wasn't so sure.


    I felt really bad watching the entire Martin family snuff it though. Especially Luka - horrible way to die - set on fire while Astral-projecting. Damon has probably racked up the highest onscreen body count of any vampire in TV history. Greta, man-witch's daughter is as good as dead if Bonnie doesn't save her. I hope she does. Bonnie's Grams was right - witches do get sucked into vampire problems. It sure sucks to be a witch.


    I'm glad Isobel's back. I remember really liking her style. Seeing Caroline sing was stupid. That whole scene was way too cheesy. Well at least the show has moved on from the high-school drama on the Caroline/Matt front on to real problems. I knew Matt would not take the Vampires-are-real thing well. As his sister died as a direct result of the Vampires' infighting, he could not possibly be cool with Caroline about everything.


    I was so looking forward to the Elena/Katherine/Stefan/Damon scenes and the show decided to start with that. Yay. The writers sure know their viewers.


    Great episode.


    Kitanishi wrote:
    Damon rejecting Katherine - the most epic thing this episode. Matt getting more attention is good, I wonder on when we will actually get that storyline about his bloodline and his mother.


    Damon rejecting Katherine was a long time coming. Good for him. Katherine needs to know she can't keep playing everyone.


    Do tell about Matt's bloodline and his mother. Some of us haven't read the books. Can you tell it though without spoilers?

    Edited on 02/26/2011 12:01am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [30]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    Do tell about Matt's bloodline and his mother. Some of us haven't read the books. Can you tell it though without spoilers?



    Its not from the books. Its a deleted scene from Season One, between Matt's mother and his father. The whole storyline was supposedly postponed for latter seasons due to Melinda Clarke's schedule problems.

    just go on youtube and search for "The Vampire Diaries Deleted Scenes 1x15" the very first link will be that.
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    d_mandal_0

    [31]Feb 26, 2011
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    Kitanishi wrote:
    Its not from the books. Its a deleted scene from Season One, between Matt's mother and his father. The whole storyline was supposedly postponed for latter seasons due to Melinda Clarke's schedule problems. just go on youtube and search for "The Vampire Diaries Deleted Scenes 1x15" the very first link will be that.


    Thanks. Just watched it. Pretty cool. Matt desperately needs something to make him interesting. Also at the rate this show manages to chew up storylines, the writers need to use all the stories they can think up.

    Edited on 02/26/2011 6:48am
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    ionee24

    [32]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:
    Isobel showing up was the only interesting part of the episode, everything else was blah blah Klaus blah on the vampire front. Seriously, the dude sounds just like Elijah: What's new about him?


    There was plenty interesting stuff happening all over the place...


    There's plenty of gimmick all over the place: deaths! explosions! fire! However, when you actually pay attention to the story nothinghappened: Klaus is still a name, Bonnie still has powers, Jenna is still clueless and Caroline is still trying to get back together with Matt.

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    gamrgrl007

    [33]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    ionee24 wrote:
    Isobel showing up was the only interesting part of the episode, everything else was blah blah Klaus blah on the vampire front. Seriously, the dude sounds just like Elijah: What's new about him?


    There was plenty interesting stuff happening all over the place. You must have been busy blaming Elena for everything to notice. She didn't even do anything in this episode. Why not blame Damon? He's the one who killed Luka. Knowingly.


    ...


    I felt really bad watching the entire Martin family snuff it though. Especially Luka - horrible way to die - set on fire while Astral-projecting.


    I agree that this was one of the most happening eppies of this season - the whole Martin family business was totally WHOA!!! It was completely out of control. I didn't believe Luka was dead DEAD for a while after coz I thought Daddy Warlock will revive him. It was possibly the most brutal death of the series so far.


    But I've to agree that per se the plot was shaky - why send Luka in astral form when as @gatoraderising noted earlier, Daddy could've waltzed into the house himself, done the head-numb thing in case he ran into either Stefan / Damon (he didn't know Kat was out I think)? And why did Luka try to pull out the knife when Kat was still in the room? It was shocking, yes, but slap-dash in concept and that made it disappointing. Even with Luka gone, the Warlock should've tried to play it cool till he saved Greta - setting Mystic Grill on fire was just too much drama. Their story could easily have been made meatier and extended - it was very 'contract killing' - three eppies up, leave! Hopefully Bonnie has some extra jazz up her sleeve now. I also hope Jeremy doesn't become a pawn in her game in the long run.


    I don't think Damon killed Luka knowingly per se because he couldn't see who it was, like Katherine also couldn't see Luka.


    That said, I'm sure if Damon had encountered Luka removing the dagger from Elijah who'd have then killed Damon as the first order of business, I'm sure Damon would've killed Luka without a second thought.


    I'm glad Elijah is indestructible as such - so he can still be revived. With Warlock gone these peeps would need Elijah in the season finale (or maybe even sooner!)



    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    Kitanishi wrote:
    Damon rejecting Katherine - the most epic thing this episode.


    Damon rejecting Katherine was a long time coming. Good for him. Katherine needs to know she can't keep playing everyone.



    It was absolutely necessary from Damon at this point. I was really worried that even though she'd sent him off to die with the dagger, he'd be like, oh okay, I stabbed her with the stake so we're even - so it was a huge relief when he gave her the shove. Well played, Damon - after a long, long time! I'm waiting for Kat/Stefan scenes now that she's struck out with Damon.



    angeland8 wrote:
    I still don't like Jenna. No matter what she's still boring. And I don't think she will become more entertaining if they tell her everything. ... As for Caroline - she's still my favourite character, but Matt is literally killing her. He's so dull - like it's contagious, she becomes blank when he's around. He's angry with Care - good riddance! Bring her werewolf back for Heaven's sake!


    Adara47 wrote:
    But seriously tell Jenna already it is getting tiresome!


    Ditto on Jenna - she was a hip supporting character earlier but she's becoming annoying in the effort to make her an important character - I think mostly because her relnship with Alaric and their characters don't have enough screentime to really develop, but she's really boring at the moment. And with Isobel back, she'll just whine some more - I don't see any other reaction from her than to blame Alaric for tricking her by saying that Isobel was dead and blah.



    Matt, Matt, Matt... even getting stabbed in the neck couldn't revive him. Oh Caroline, mind-whack him already! And Aunt Jenna too!



    I missed Uncle John. I hope with Isobel back he comes back too next eppy.


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    d_mandal_0

    [34]Feb 26, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    There's plenty of gimmick all over the place: deaths! explosions! fire! However, when you actually pay attention to the story nothinghappened: Klaus is still a name, Bonnie still has powers, Jenna is still clueless and Caroline is still trying to get back together with Matt.



    The Elijah+Man-witch threat was eliminated. The witch family DIES.


    Katherine's motive was revealed, namely her pact with UncleJ.


    Bonnie gets her powers back.


    The stupid Jeremy/Bonnie drama is ended by Bonnie telling Elena and Elena being fine with it.


    Matt finds out. This was totally unexpected. Jenna's enlightenment we all saw coming. No one thought Matt would get there first. Kudos writers.


    Isobel returns.


    In terms of character development, Damon rejecting Katherine was a HUGE personal milestone for him, though the show almost underplayed it. Though Damon was prepared to permanently leave Katherine in the tomb by killing Elijah, so it wasn't completely unexpected.


    There was also the awful singing sequence by Caroline that rivals the first season Damon/Elena waltzing sequence on the cheesiness scale. However since a lot of people liked it (nauseating thought) it also must be mentioned.


    Even the fastest moving shows (Fringe season 3 comes to mind) have filler episodes. TVD always manages to pack in a few storyline enders and a few starters into their filler episodes. They should be lauded for that. Though how long they can maintain this breakneck speed remains to be seen. I can't imagine this show going the Supernatural way - limping on for ratings even though the spirit of the show is dead.

    Edited on 02/26/2011 8:57am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    d_mandal_0

    [35]Feb 26, 2011
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:


    I agree that this was one of the most happening eppies of this season - the whole Martin family business was totally WHOA!!! It was completely out of control. I didn't believe Luka was dead DEAD for a while after coz I thought Daddy Warlock will revive him. It was possibly the most brutal death of the series so far.


    But I've to agree that per se the plot was shaky - why send Luka in astral form when as @gatoraderising noted earlier, Daddy could've waltzed into the house himself, done the head-numb thing in case he ran into either Stefan / Damon (he didn't know Kat was out I think)? And why did Luka try to pull out the knife when Kat was still in the room? It was shocking, yes, but slap-dash in concept and that made it disappointing. Even with Luka gone, the Warlock should've tried to play it cool till he saved Greta - setting Mystic Grill on fire was just too much drama. Their story could easily have been made meatier and extended - it was very 'contract killing' - three eppies up, leave! Hopefully Bonnie has some extra jazz up her sleeve now. I also hope Jeremy doesn't become a pawn in her game in the long run.


    I don't think Damon killed Luka knowingly per se because he couldn't see who it was, like Katherine also couldn't see Luka.


    That said, I'm sure if Damon had encountered Luka removing the dagger from Elijah who'd have then killed Damon as the first order of business, I'm sure Damon would've killed Luka without a second thought.


    .....


    It was absolutely necessary from Damon at this point. I was really worried that even though she'd sent him off to die with the dagger, he'd be like, oh okay, I stabbed her with the stake so we're even - so it was a huge relief when he gave her the shove. Well played, Damon - after a long, long time! I'm waiting for Kat/Stefan scenes now that she's struck out with Damon.


    .....


    Ditto on Jenna - she was a hip supporting character earlier but she's becoming annoying in the effort to make her an important character - I think mostly because her relnship with Alaric and their characters don't have enough screentime to really develop, but she's really boring at the moment. And with Isobel back, she'll just whine some more - I don't see any other reaction from her than to blame Alaric for tricking her by saying that Isobel was dead and blah.



    " three eppies up, leave!" - HAHAHA. Epic comment.


    I kept thinking - surely Luka will be revived. Surely he's not dead. Somehow he and man-witch always seemed more important to me to be killed off so fast. And so suddenly.


    When I said "Damon killed Luka knowingly", I meant to say that Damon knew it was a Martin witch he was killing, not necessarily Luka. I know Damon knew because he told Stefan there was witch trouble when he came down.


    "I'm waiting for Kat/Stefan scenes now that she's struck out with Damon." Fine by me. It's way more fun to watch Stefan with Katherine than with Elena. Katherine just lights up the place no matter who she's with.


    Also I think Isobel might just tell Jenna about vampires herself. She obviously doesn't care what Jenna knows cuz she didn't have to show up at their doorstep and announce herself, just to talk to Elena. Also I'm thinking Isobel doesn't like Jenna being with Alaric. I might be wrong but I got the feeling during season 1 that she still loves Alaric. We'll see.

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    ionee24

    [36]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:
    There's plenty of gimmick all over the place: deaths! explosions! fire! However, when you actually pay attention to the story nothing happened: Klaus is still a name, Bonnie still has powers, Jenna is still clueless and Caroline is still trying to get back together with Matt.


    The Elijah+Man-witch threat was eliminated. The witch family DIES.


    Lets think about this, shall we: What did we learn about them that we didn't know already? What did they told Bonnie for that matter (we don't know how to kill Klaus all we know is that Bonnie knows it)? Has Elijah's situation changed in any way? Has Klaus's for that matter? Has it Katherine's (she's still out of the tomb, she's still the "house guest", she's still after the Salvatore, she's still silent about everything else)?


    We all saw the gimmicks yet we still know exactly what we learnt the episode before and the episode before that, so the gimmicks in itselves did nothing to further the plot.

    Edited on 02/26/2011 10:07am
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    d_mandal_0

    [37]Feb 26, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    Lets think about this, shall we: What did we learn about them that we didn't know already? What did they told Bonnie for that matter (we don't know how to kill Klaus all we know is that Bonnie knows it)? Has Elijah's situation changed in any way? Has Klaus's for that matter? Has it Katherine's (she's still out of the tomb, she's still the "house guest", she's still after the Salvatore, she's still silent about everything else)?


    We all saw the gimmicks yet we still know exactly what we learnt the episode before and the episode before that, so the gimmicks in itselves did nothing to further the plot.



    Oh you want to learn something? Well we know Stefan is still a vampire same as we did at the start of the season. So is Damon. And Elena's still human. Going by your idea of a good episode, a lot of the episodes are complete filler.


    On the stuff that you pointed out - We know the martins are DEAD this episode. That certainly changed. Bonnie didn't have her powers. Now she does. I'm fine not knowing how she's gonna kill Klaus yet. What matters is that Bonnie learns it. That changed. And Katherine's NOT silent - I've already pointed out we know her motive now. (Though I still think she'll betray the Salvatores and offer up Elena to Klaus. Here's hoping I'm wrong.)


    When did the show become completely about Klaus and Elijah? That's the main plot. I'm glad Klaus isn't here yet because that would mean the season's about to be over two episodes later. That's how American TV series work. This was not a main plot episode. This was a filler. We all know that. As far as fillers go, compared to other TV shows, this was GREAT. A load of stuff happened to a bunch of other characters who are in no way less important. TVD has consistently good fillers, which is why I love this show.


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    ionee24

    [38]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:
    Lets think about this, shall we: What did we learn about them that we didn't know already? What did they told Bonnie for that matter (we don't know how to kill Klaus all we know is that Bonnie knows it)? Has Elijah's situation changed in any way? Has Klaus's for that matter? Has it Katherine's (she's still out of the tomb, she's still the "house guest", she's still after the Salvatore, she's still silent about everything else)?


    We all saw the gimmicks yet we still know exactly what we learnt the episode before and the episode before that, so the gimmicks in itselves did nothing to further the plot.



    Oh you want to learn something? ...


    I want an episode that furthers the plot, not smoke and mirrors: fires!and deaths! and surprise twists! are okay as long as there's also some form of development like the episode where Tyler became a werewolf, Elijah was introduced as an original or the episode Rose died from a werewolf bite, otherwise it's only gimmicks.

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    d_mandal_0

    [39]Feb 26, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    I want an episode that furthers the plot, not smoke and mirrors: fires!and deaths! and surprise twists! are okay as long as there's also some form of development like the episode where Tyler became a werewolf, Elijah was introduced as an original or the episode Rose died from a werewolf bite, otherwise it's only gimmicks.



    What you're calling gimmicks are actually called filler episodes. They're a part of any American TV show. Except maybe 24.


    I know what you should do. You should skip a few episodes. Come back around episode 20-21. That's probably when Klaus will make his big entrance.

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    gamrgrl007

    [40]Feb 26, 2011
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    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    ionee24 wrote:


    I want an episode that furthers the plot, not smoke and mirrors: fires!and deaths! and surprise twists! are okay as long as there's also some form of development like the episode where Tyler became a werewolf, Elijah was introduced as an original or the episode Rose died from a werewolf bite, otherwise it's only gimmicks.



    I know what you should do. You should skip a few episodes. Come back around episode 20-21. That's probably when Klaus will make his big entrance.



    LOL good suggestion


    I think we had enough plot furtherance for enough episode.


    Bonnie gets new powers and info on how to kill Klaus? Part 2: How?


    Elijah cannot be killed KILLED by fire or presumably other means? Part 2: Then how?? Is it possible? What's the implication of this on killing Klaus?


    Katherine may have contrived to kill Emily? Part 2: What's the story & its implications?


    Damon & Stefan may know where the witch burning ground is? Part 2: What to do with this info?


    Katherine did off with Dr. Martin though she needed his assistance to get rid of Klaus? Part 2: What's her big agenda right now? Snooking Klaus or hooking Stefan?


    Katherine & Damon officially finally epically over? Part 2: Kat / Stefan, therefore, maybe, Damon / Elena? Or even if not, it closes a key plot point.


    Bonnie & Jeremy officially on with elders' blessings? Part 2: Long story coming up.


    Matt knows and I know it doesn't matter but he knows finally? Part 2: Mind-whammy? Deal with it? Break up with Caroline? Pave way for Tyler?


    There's another back-up witch out there called Greta? Part 2: Whew.


    Uncle John has been dealing with Katherine? Part 2: What's his deal anyway, only to protect Elena? From Salvatores / Klaus / or what? Why Katherine?


    sobel back? Part 2: EPIC.


    Jenna now knows Isobel is alive and Alaric was lying? Part 2: More whining. However, Alaric will have serious stuff to address.


    Character development:


    Damon, makes a big move towards becoming a man instead of a whiny temperamental boy.


    Katherine: Gets rejected by her easiest target; stands by her crew so to speak; is almost hurt at Elena's snub afterwards.


    Bonnie: Big Witch on Campus now.


    Caroline: Sang a Bangles song in 2011. Redefined 'eternal'.


    Matt: Finally figured everything out - wrong, but anyway. Something is better than whatever.


    Luka: Can move on to hopefully longer roles.



    Actually after I started making this list, I actually realised just how much the episode had crammed into it. I doubt they could've done more in this time with these many characters and these many serious plots simultaneously underway. If someone is still unsatisfied, then maybe it's time to graduate from a teen supernatural show.

    Edited on 02/26/2011 1:40pm
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