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Official Episode Discussion 2.19: "Klaus"

  • Avatar of jstitely1

    jstitely1

    [41]Apr 22, 2011
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    [QUOTE="ionee24"]


    charmed452 wrote:


    okay so if the curse is 'Fake' then why do vampires burn it sunlight, we saw Isobel burn just two episodes ago. Why can't werewolf turn when they feel like it?



    There is something that prevents the vampires and werewolves from having those abilities, it is just not the sun and the moon curse, which was concoted only so that everyone would try to sacrifice the dopelganger, which would lead to klaus getting what he wanted. The sun/moon curse is an exploitation of a weakness in species, thats it.

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    smegmag

    [42]Apr 22, 2011
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    toridiva wrote:
    oh and the best part....JENNA NOW KNOWS!

    EVERYONE KNOWS NOW!

    Which means now that Jenna and/or Matt will probably be killed of soon


    Jenna killed off sounds divine--I loathe stupid people fictional and otherwise. On the whole, ep kinda dragged--the fake curse and Klaus as werewolf not really exciting me--just seems like plot twists for the sake of plot twists.
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    Kitanishi

    [43]Apr 22, 2011
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:

    Someone please tell me WHY OH WHY...


    ... Jenna wasn't just mind-warped back into oblivious ignorance?


    ... Jenna is less freaking out about the fact that there are vampires and werewolves out there than the fact that no one told her?


    ... even bother introducing Jenna into the script at this point because it's irrelevant if she dies?


    ... Bulgarian Katerina sounds Brit but Klaus / Elijah who've been in London forever since moving from their Eastern European country still sound 'exotic'?


    ... the writers think making Stefan behave like a freaking petty hypocritical a** is supposed to make us believe he's the 'good guy'?


    ... Damon is obsessed with Elena though from his perspective there's very little likable - or even - stand-able about her, with her smug little smiles when he is kicked to the curb by ANYONE? With Kat, his obsession was justifiable because till S2 he thought she LOVED him. With Elena???


    ... Elijah needs to be in love with Katherine too???????


    ... do we need a Elijah/Klaus do a most UNCOOL Stefan/Damon rehash?


    ... Andie was in her undies for the last scene? Would clothing have made it less sensational - not that it was?


    I'm all for build-up. But not when all the guys on the show - except for Tyler and Jeremy - are whipped by the SAME girl!!!



    In Sequence:
    1. Vervain and not wanting to hide it. Hiding stuff from Jenna already almost killed her TWICE.
    2. Shock. Elena said it. Once Jenna actually warps her mind around this stuff, I fully expect a full reaction.
    3. Its relevant for Elena. Jenna and/or Jeremy dieing would impact Elena and her character. Look what her family dieing did to Katherine.
    4. Because Katherine, just as she said, was polishing her skills of fitting in. Accent is one of things you do not want to have. Klaus? Klaus does not care about such things.
    5. I doubt this is supposed to make us believe he is the good guy. I fully expect everything he did and said to blow up in his face latter on. Especially the "she won't respect you evarrrrr" part of his gloating sounds like something that comes back to bite him in the ass latter on. You know how villains gloat "no one will stop meee!!!!" seconds before they are defeated. I fully expect Damon to have Elena's respect and more latter on and Stefan to eat his words.
    6. Elena is his tie to humanity, as well as reason he lives. He DOES NOT care on if she hates him, as long as he manages to save her from death. He literally holds her above his own well-being.
    7. I do not think he was in love. Most likely she reminded him of the original woman upon which the doppelganger was based. It was mostly them sharing a certain kind of connection, that would make him somewhat value human life.
    8. Brother-rivalry, oldest plotline in the world, introduced by Cain and Abel. It has been a constant theme in the tv show, just as well as some things repeating again and again through history. Not surprised.
    9. I guess its stylistic choice. Makes her look more "vulnerable".
    10. I do not like this also, however IF the show manages to add some believable reason (like for example,doppelgangers are attractive to supernatural species, or something), then I would be okay. But yeah. Elena is WAY TOO IMPORTANT. Buffy was a freaking Chosen One and still the show managed to not be JUST about her.
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    ionee24

    [44]Apr 22, 2011
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    jstitely1 wrote:
    ionee24 wrote:


    alirk wrote:


    Didn't Elijah say something to Elena about there being "another curse?"



    Don't even get me started on it: to retcon the first curse only so they could put on another curse later on it's just dumb. Even more so than to retcon the Klaus/Elijah brothers only so they could have yet another Salvatore brothers.



    There is something that prevents the vampires and werewolves from having those abilities, it is just not the sun and the moon curse, which was concoted only so that everyone would try to sacrifice the dopelganger, which would lead to klaus getting what he wanted. The sun/moon curse is an exploitation of a weakness in species, thats it.


    That's what the episode keep telling us: that there's yet another curse that does what the first curse was supposed to do so that, to retcon the first, would not leave such a plot hole. It's still ridiculous: at least the werewolves should be able to turn at will. Why don't they start explaining that "little" inconsistency.

    Edited on 04/22/2011 5:05pm
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    CheckeredYcats

    [45]Apr 22, 2011
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    I don't think that Elijah was in love with Katherine. I think that maybe the original Petrova was Elijah and Klaus' mother. Either that or she was his lover as a human, but I'm leaning more towards their mother. It just seems more fit that they would use the blood of his mother to curse him. There was just something in the way Elijah looked at Katerina when he first saw her. It reminded me of in Supernatural when Dean saw his mother was alive in an alternate reality. Sorry to bring Supernatural into a Vampire Diaries discussion forum, but that's what the look reminded me of.

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    gamrgrl007

    [46]Apr 22, 2011
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    @Kitanishi - thanks for the detailed answer, much appreciated Also cleared up my confusion about why Jenna wasn't zapped back - I didn't realise that they didn't 'want' to make her forget. Her speech about protecting Elena doesn't bode too well for her, but then she's such a sitting duck that she might just make it to S3. I hope Alaric didn't die without notice when he keeled over though - or does he appear in later promos?

    As for Stefan, right now the chap for me is insufferable. Maybe they're setting him up for a fall, but they shouldn't ruin his character to do so, because he's not supposed to be a petty guy. With everything that's going on, he's decided chosen THIS moment to get on Damon's case because in an unrelated matter Damon loves Elena which has been out in the open forever now... that's a total loss of focus from the situation. So yeah, I see your point, just not very happy with the way they're going about it.

    CheckeredYcats wrote:

    I don't think that Elijah was in love with Katherine. I think that maybe the original Petrova was Elijah and Klaus' mother. Either that or she was his lover as a human, but I'm leaning more towards their mother. It just seems more fit that they would use the blood of his mother to curse him. There was just something in the way Elijah looked at Katerina when he first saw her. It reminded me of in Supernatural when Dean saw his mother was alive in an alternate reality.



    That garden scene wasn't very 'motherly' - in fact they made it like the garden chase scene of Kat & Stefan, and he quite directly tells Elena that he 'cared' about Katherine and that it's a common mistake which he's not willing to repeat. Otherwise he'd have said something leading like, 'she reminds me of someone I knew /loved /whatever', and some other example to establish a motherly relationship, like they had Mary make PBJ sandwiches for Dean, that sort of a thing instead of a romanticised chase where they talk about her lovers.

    I don't have any theory on the Petrova bloodline, but Kat seems to be a clear love interest, albeit a secret one, for Elijah. He didn't proceed because SHE didn't think of him as anything more than a baby-sitter when Klaus was away, and she tells him that true love isn't so if it isn't returned, using the Trevor analogy. And that's why he was also sympathetic towards Damon in the end, because he saw Stefan & Damon fighting, and he knew it was about Elena, and it reminded him of him and Klaus fighting about Kat.
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    HappyGirl818

    [47]Apr 23, 2011
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    I've only skimmed the other comments, but from what I can tell I may be in the minority because I actually really liked this episode. Yes it was plot heavy, and yes it was a lot of explaining but idk I enjoyed it! I didn't particularly love "Know Thy Enemy" or "The Last Dance," and I felt like this episode was better, but that could just have to do with Elijah because I was loving him during this episode! Though I had to laugh when it was revealed that the "curse" the whole season had been revolving around wasn't even real! But that's okay, the curse itself never made sense logically and I never understood why Klaus wanted to break it to begin with, so at least now it makes slightly more sense. I also burst into a fit of giggles when it was revealed the Klaus was "both" vampire and werewolf lol I did not see that coming, and even though I guess it was suppose to be dramatic it seemed ridiculous to me lol I mean he's a werepire!

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    charmed452

    [48]Apr 23, 2011
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    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?

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    gamrgrl007

    [49]Apr 23, 2011
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    charmed452 wrote:

    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?



    Actually, now that you mention it, why DID he rescue Kat, even if strategically?
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    ionee24

    [50]Apr 23, 2011
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    charmed452 wrote:


    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?



    The way I see it, he has always been in love with Katherine, Elena is just the rebound gal so Damon is still not over Katherine, not by a long shot

    Edited on 04/23/2011 5:51pm
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    Kitanishi

    [51]Apr 23, 2011
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:
    charmed452 wrote:

    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?



    Actually, now that you mention it, why DID he rescue Kat, even if strategically?


    For ritual you need vampire, werewolf, witch and doppelganger.

    Katherine also is feeding Klaus info about the good guys.

    So by giving her vervain, he ensures that Kat will screw up the curse ritual somehow.

    WE have an old saying "putting the wood into the wheels" - basically doing everything to mess up something.

    Katherine being a wildcard is way more useful than Katherine being obedient compelled doll during the ritual.
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    jstitely1

    [52]Apr 23, 2011
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    gamrgrl007 wrote:
    charmed452 wrote:


    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?


    Actually, now that you mention it, why DID he rescue Kat, even if strategically?


    He rescued Kat to prevent it from being so much easier for Klaus to use her as a weapon. I don't think he is really in love with Katherine, i think he was , but over the years he tried to get her out of the tomb, i believed that it turned into more of an obsession thing. Plus, Damon probably would rather himself be the person tormenting katherine, not klaus.

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    ionee24

    [53]Apr 23, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:
    charmed452 wrote:
    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?


    The way I see it, he has always been in love with Katherine, Elena is just the rebound gal so Damon is still not over Katherine, not by a long shot

    jstitely1 wrote:
    ...I don't think he is really in love with Katherine, i think he was , but over the years he tried to get her out of the tomb, i believed that it turned into more of an obsession thing. Plus, Damon probably would rather himself be the person tormenting katherine, not klaus.


    If anything, the show itself treated Damon as the Klaus clone during this episode so he's most definitely still in love with Katherine, at the very least he still has strong feelings for her, like Klaus did originally (pun intended).

    Edited on 04/23/2011 5:50pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    HappyGirl818

    [54]Apr 23, 2011
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    jstitely1 wrote:


    He rescued Kat to prevent it from being so much easier for Klaus to use her as a weapon. I don't think he is really in love with Katherine, i think he was , but over the years he tried to get her out of the tomb, i believed that it turned into more of an obsession thing. Plus, Damon probably would rather himself be the person tormenting katherine, not klaus.



    I agree with your assessment. He went to give Katherine the vervain so Klaus wouldn't be able to use her against them anymore than he already is. However, I do think it was a little bit too much of a plot convenience that Klauric and his witch were both gone when Damon and Andie showed up, but I can overlook it. Damon did seem to be a little bothered by the idea of Katherine dying at the hands of Klaus last week, but I honestly don't believe he still loves her given everything that's happened. I do think that they have sort of come to an understanding though.


    I also think the fact that Katherine now owes him a favor,as he pointed out, will come up again later.

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    Frenz9

    [55]Apr 24, 2011
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    I had afew problems with this episode.. *things I agree with* -the curse being a fake -original vampires having abilities, I look at it like the weakness with sun a result of being a turned vampire(kind of like an underling) -werewolfs can't change at will because it is how it works, rather than a curse. They are not shape shifters. I HATE the hybrid idea. The oldest vampire is not actually a proper vampire? Then where did the proper vampires come from?

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    ionee24

    [56]Apr 24, 2011
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    Exactly! The Vampire Diaries itself made the point that the werewolf bite/blood kills a vampire: now try to explain a creature with BOTH in its system without retcon the whole show/story.


    True Blood 101: Anyone who was a born human is not an Original product/creature. Any shapeshifter who mates with a human only has half-shapeshifters be that werewolves, werepanters and such. There's NO SUCH THING as a werepire! Ever!


    This show has effectively ruined the myth/folklore. The fact that it did it for the purpose of yet another love triangle only makes this worse.

    Edited on 04/24/2011 10:51am
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    jstitely1

    [57]Apr 24, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    ionee24 wrote:
    charmed452 wrote:
    something else i noticed about this episode, Damon went to rescue Katherine even though he knew he could run into Alaric/Klaus. Does that mean he's still in love with her?


    The way I see it, he has always been in love with Katherine, Elena is just the rebound gal so Damon is still not over Katherine, not by a long shot

    jstitely1 wrote:
    ...I don't think he is really in love with Katherine, i think he was , but over the years he tried to get her out of the tomb, i believed that it turned into more of an obsession thing. Plus, Damon probably would rather himself be the person tormenting katherine, not klaus.


    If anything, the show itself treated Damon as the Klaus clone during this episode so he's most definitely still in love with Katherine, at the very least he still has strong feelings for her, like Klaus did originally (pun intended).



    klaus never cared or loved katherine at all. she was means to an end(the sacrifice) i dont know how you got that klaus loved her. the only one who got even close out of those brothers was elijah..

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    CheckeredYcats

    [58]Apr 24, 2011
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    HappyGirl818 wrote:


    However, I do think it was a little bit too much of a plot convenience that Klauric and his witch were both gone when Damon and Andie showed up, but I can overlook it.



    When Jenna called Stefan, Damon was in the room and heard the whole conversation. Jenna said that Ric was meeting her at the grill. Damon knew that he wasn't there.

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    isildurelendil

    [59]Apr 25, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    True Blood 101: Anyone who was a born human is not an Original product/creature. Any shapeshifter who mates with a human only has half-shapeshifters be that werewolves, werepanters and such. There's NO SUCH THING as a werepire! Ever!


    This show has effectively ruined the myth/folklore. The fact that it did it for the purpose of yet another love triangle only makes this worse.


    Note that this ISN'T True Blood. The mythology's entirely different. There seems to be much confusion in this regard. Klaus was a bastard. His mother was unfaithful when they were human and the entire family "became" vampires in one go. The werewolves are born with a dormant bloodline that awakens when they kill someone and given that the originals are immune to virtually everything that otherwise hurt vampires, it's not too much of a stretch to believe that Klaus can transition. One question though:timing seems to be important when it comes to killing Klaus. He is at his weakest when he transitions but I wonder if she can pull it off if she misses the transitioning. That aside, something tells me Elijah sees more of himself in Damon and more of Klaus in Stefan.

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    CheckeredYcats

    [60]Apr 25, 2011
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    ionee24 wrote:


    Exactly! The Vampire Diaries itself made the point that the werewolf bite/blood kills a vampire: now try to explain a creature with BOTH in its system without retcon the whole show/story.


    True Blood 101: Anyone who was a born human is not an Original product/creature. Any shapeshifter who mates with a human only has half-shapeshifters be that werewolves, werepanters and such. There's NO SUCH THING as a werepire! Ever!


    This show has effectively ruined the myth/folklore. The fact that it did it for the purpose of yet another love triangle only makes this worse.




    Well there's not really any such thing as anything on this show, that's why its called FANTASY. And this is not the first vampire/werewolf thing with a hybrid in it. Underworld had the bloodline that made a vampire-werewolf. And btw, this is a VAMPIRE DIARIES forum, not True Blood! They are completely different, at least this show doesn't have fairies.

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