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Official Episode Discussion 2.21: "The Sun Also Rises"

  • Avatar of vanbrat

    vanbrat

    [41]May 8, 2011
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    [QUOTE="d_mandal_0"]


    toridiva wrote:


    Also someone clear something up for me please. Klaus killed his entire family a bazillion years ago and kept the bodies somewhere and told Elijah that he had just disposed of them at sea. And now Elijah broke his promise to Elena and went back on his word to Stefan to see his dead-a-bazillion-years-ago family's rotted carcasses.


    Did I get that wrong somehow? Because as it is, it makes no sense to me. First of all why would Klaus even lie about having disposed of the bodies? What purpose could that serve? Also, what happens after Elijah gets his eyeful of all his precious skeletons? He's now got a mega pissed off hybrid brother who's mad Elijah turned on him in the first place. I must be missing something.




    I'm thinking the other family members aren't dead -- just in a "dead-like" state. The way Elijah was when they staked him with the magic knife and stuck his body in the basement. Maybe he believes if he can find them, he can bring them back, which is why he needs Klaus to tell him where they are. And it would be goodfor future storylines -- whenever the writers run out of material, they can just have Elijah find one of his siblings, bring them back to "life", and a new villain appears on the horizon.


    My question is: Elena and Jeremy are still minors, correct? So, shouldn't they still have a legal guardian? And I don't think it can be Alaric, because it takes a lot more than "Oh, you've been a great boyfriend-- so if I die, you can have the kids" sort of thing to establish guardianship. Social services should be stepping in, any day now...


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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [42]May 8, 2011
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    [QUOTE="vanbrat"]

    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    toridiva wrote:


    Also someone clear something up for me please. Klaus killed his entire family a bazillion years ago and kept the bodies somewhere and told Elijah that he had just disposed of them at sea. And now Elijah broke his promise to Elena and went back on his word to Stefan to see his dead-a-bazillion-years-ago family's rotted carcasses.


    Did I get that wrong somehow? Because as it is, it makes no sense to me. First of all why would Klaus even lie about having disposed of the bodies? What purpose could that serve? Also, what happens after Elijah gets his eyeful of all his precious skeletons? He's now got a mega pissed off hybrid brother who's mad Elijah turned on him in the first place. I must be missing something.




    I'm thinking the other family members aren't dead -- just in a "dead-like" state. The way Elijah was when they staked him with the magic knife and stuck his body in the basement. Maybe he believes if he can find them, he can bring them back, which is why he needs Klaus to tell him where they are. And it would be goodfor future storylines -- whenever the writers run out of material, they can just have Elijah find one of his siblings, bring them back to "life", and a new villain appears on the horizon.


    My question is: Elena and Jeremy are still minors, correct? So, shouldn't they still have a legal guardian? And I don't think it can be Alaric, because it takes a lot more than "Oh, you've been a great boyfriend-- so if I die, you can have the kids" sort of thing to establish guardianship. Social services should be stepping in, any day now...




    They sure as hell seem to NOT be hurrying on Matt.

    But hey, if Jeremy dies and Elena turns 18 they don't need new guardians!
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  • Avatar of AnilThornberry

    AnilThornberry

    [43]May 8, 2011
    • member since: 06/06/05
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    This show is getting to complicated to keep up with it. So many information thrown in there.


    With season 1, it was much more fun to keep up and watch.


    And they have this retarded way of writing - where they keep the useless characters and kill off the best ones.


    I mean, for example, Matt. What does he give to the show? He just cleans the tables. What else? Kill him. But no they had to kill Jenna.


    I still can't wait for season 3 though, Dalena is so happening. I like Stephan but he's boring as f**k lol!

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  • Avatar of jrsgalaxy

    jrsgalaxy

    [44]May 8, 2011
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    [QUOTE="Kitanishi"]
    vanbrat wrote:

    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    toridiva wrote:


    Also someone clear something up for me please. Klaus killed his entire family a bazillion years ago and kept the bodies somewhere and told Elijah that he had just disposed of them at sea. And now Elijah broke his promise to Elena and went back on his word to Stefan to see his dead-a-bazillion-years-ago family's rotted carcasses.


    Did I get that wrong somehow? Because as it is, it makes no sense to me. First of all why would Klaus even lie about having disposed of the bodies? What purpose could that serve? Also, what happens after Elijah gets his eyeful of all his precious skeletons? He's now got a mega pissed off hybrid brother who's mad Elijah turned on him in the first place. I must be missing something.




    I'm thinking the other family members aren't dead -- just in a "dead-like" state. The way Elijah was when they staked him with the magic knife and stuck his body in the basement. Maybe he believes if he can find them, he can bring them back, which is why he needs Klaus to tell him where they are. And it would be goodfor future storylines -- whenever the writers run out of material, they can just have Elijah find one of his siblings, bring them back to "life", and a new villain appears on the horizon.


    My question is: Elena and Jeremy are still minors, correct? So, shouldn't they still have a legal guardian? And I don't think it can be Alaric, because it takes a lot more than "Oh, you've been a great boyfriend-- so if I die, you can have the kids" sort of thing to establish guardianship. Social services should be stepping in, any day now...




    They sure as hell seem to NOT be hurrying on Matt.

    But hey, if Jeremy dies and Elena turns 18 they don't need new guardians!
    Shouldn't Elena be 18 and have graduated this year. She was 16 two years ago.
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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [45]May 8, 2011
    • member since: 01/20/08
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    [QUOTE="jrsgalaxy"]
    Kitanishi wrote:
    vanbrat wrote:

    d_mandal_0 wrote:


    toridiva wrote:


    Also someone clear something up for me please. Klaus killed his entire family a bazillion years ago and kept the bodies somewhere and told Elijah that he had just disposed of them at sea. And now Elijah broke his promise to Elena and went back on his word to Stefan to see his dead-a-bazillion-years-ago family's rotted carcasses.


    Did I get that wrong somehow? Because as it is, it makes no sense to me. First of all why would Klaus even lie about having disposed of the bodies? What purpose could that serve? Also, what happens after Elijah gets his eyeful of all his precious skeletons? He's now got a mega pissed off hybrid brother who's mad Elijah turned on him in the first place. I must be missing something.




    I'm thinking the other family members aren't dead -- just in a "dead-like" state. The way Elijah was when they staked him with the magic knife and stuck his body in the basement. Maybe he believes if he can find them, he can bring them back, which is why he needs Klaus to tell him where they are. And it would be goodfor future storylines -- whenever the writers run out of material, they can just have Elijah find one of his siblings, bring them back to "life", and a new villain appears on the horizon.


    My question is: Elena and Jeremy are still minors, correct? So, shouldn't they still have a legal guardian? And I don't think it can be Alaric, because it takes a lot more than "Oh, you've been a great boyfriend-- so if I die, you can have the kids" sort of thing to establish guardianship. Social services should be stepping in, any day now...




    They sure as hell seem to NOT be hurrying on Matt.

    But hey, if Jeremy dies and Elena turns 18 they don't need new guardians!
    Shouldn't Elena be 18 and have graduated this year. She was 16 two years ago.


    Its still 2010, June in TVD world, according to J.Plec.
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  • Avatar of sunnykimmy

    sunnykimmy

    [46]May 8, 2011
    • member since: 05/12/08
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    puppybunny1 wrote:


    Speculation:


    I am hoping that Tyler will turn Jeremy into a Werewolf and Bonnie will keep them both from turning with a spell or something.



    You are either born with the 'werewolf gene' in your bloodor you're not. You can't be turned into one as far as I know. It's not like with vampires. When you have it in your blood,killing someone sets something off so you can transform intoa werewolfeach full moon. And I don't think the Gilberts have it in their blood.

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  • Avatar of HappyGirl818

    HappyGirl818

    [47]May 9, 2011
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    I really liked this episode. I especially thought John sacrificing himself for Elena was very touching, and I cried during the funeral with his voice over letter. And that is something that does not happen often when I watch TVD.


    I thought the actual sacrifice ritual was a bit of a let down. Though this could have just been because I read an article saying season 3 was going to be "the season of the originals," so while I was watching it I was like well obviously Klaus can't die. So that sort of took out the suspense for me. But I did think the scenes with Jenna and Elena were very well done, and I was sadder to see Jenna go than I would have ever thought possible.


    But I have to ask, did they all just forget that a werewolf and vampire were going to be needed for the ritual or did they just assume Klaus already had some on hand? Because they didn't seem to be too concerned with that until this episode. If it wasn't Jules and Jenna it was going to be Tyler and Caroline! Then what would have the group done? I guess the plan's main concern was just to keep Elena alive, but still this just goes to show how it wasn't really the best plan in the world.


    I'm really excited for next weeks episode, but I'm going to be sad once it's hiatus time again!

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  • Avatar of DesireBoom

    DesireBoom

    [48]May 9, 2011
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    I'm thinking Jenna might not be dead... Rick and Elena weren't really grief stricken, and since when does a vampire die when being staked? Just pull the stake out and she'll be alright, right?


    Also, IMO the damaged-soul part occurs when a vampire kills someone, and not immediately after they're turned. I think I read that in the VD books.



    I think the series is getting beter again after a period of not so good episodes. Finally things are moving and happening again.

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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [49]May 9, 2011
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    DesireBoom wrote:

    I'm thinking Jenna might not be dead... Rick and Elena weren't really grief stricken, and since when does a vampire die when being staked? Just pull the stake out and she'll be alright, right?


    Also, IMO the damaged-soul part occurs when a vampire kills someone, and not immediately after they're turned. I think I read that in the VD books.



    I think the series is getting beter again after a period of not so good episodes. Finally things are moving and happening again.



    Originals can survive staking and ANYTHING barring 100 dead witches.

    Stake to the heart is fatal to normal vampires. Not to mention the actress who plays Jenna confirmed she is out of the show for good.
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  • Avatar of DesireBoom

    DesireBoom

    [50]May 9, 2011
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    Kitanishi wrote:
    DesireBoom wrote:


    I'm thinking Jenna might not be dead... Rick and Elena weren't really grief stricken, and since when does a vampire die when being staked? Just pull the stake out and she'll be alright, right?


    Also, IMO the damaged-soul part occurs when a vampire kills someone, and not immediately after they're turned. I think I read that in the VD books.



    I think the series is getting beter again after a period of not so good episodes. Finally things are moving and happening again.


    Originals can survive staking and ANYTHING barring 100 dead witches. Stake to the heart is fatal to normal vampires. Not to mention the actress who plays Jenna confirmed she is out of the show for good.


    Stefan was staked many times and survived... Or am I missing something? But oh well, if she comfirmed somewhere that she's out, than the acting was just really bad in the funeral scene.

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  • Avatar of Kitanishi

    Kitanishi

    [51]May 9, 2011
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    DesireBoom wrote:

    Kitanishi wrote:
    DesireBoom wrote:


    I'm thinking Jenna might not be dead... Rick and Elena weren't really grief stricken, and since when does a vampire die when being staked? Just pull the stake out and she'll be alright, right?


    Also, IMO the damaged-soul part occurs when a vampire kills someone, and not immediately after they're turned. I think I read that in the VD books.



    I think the series is getting beter again after a period of not so good episodes. Finally things are moving and happening again.


    Originals can survive staking and ANYTHING barring 100 dead witches. Stake to the heart is fatal to normal vampires. Not to mention the actress who plays Jenna confirmed she is out of the show for good.


    Stefan was staked many times and survived... Or am I missing something? But oh well, if she comfirmed somewhere that she's out, than the acting was just really bad in the funeral scene.



    NOT to the heart. Stefan was never staked to the heart, nor was Damoon.

    Its not "staking" thats fatal. Its Stake to the heart that's fatal.

    Once the vampire goes all veiny and gray, he is completely and utterly and forever dead.
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  • Avatar of jrsgalaxy

    jrsgalaxy

    [53]May 9, 2011
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    HappyGirl818 wrote:


    I really liked this episode. I especially thought John sacrificing himself for Elena was very touching, and I cried during the funeral with his voice over letter. And that is something that does not happen often when I watch TVD.


    I thought the actual sacrifice ritual was a bit of a let down. Though this could have just been because I read an article saying season 3 was going to be "the season of the originals," so while I was watching it I was like well obviously Klaus can't die. So that sort of took out the suspense for me. But I did think the scenes with Jenna and Elena were very well done, and I was sadder to see Jenna go than I would have ever thought possible.


    But I have to ask, did they all just forget that a werewolf and vampire were going to be needed for the ritual or did they just assume Klaus already had some on hand? Because they didn't seem to be too concerned with that until this episode. If it wasn't Jules and Jenna it was going to be Tyler and Caroline! Then what would have the group done? I guess the plan's main concern was just to keep Elena alive, but still this just goes to show how it wasn't really the best plan in the world.


    I guess they assumed they wouldn't know the werewolf and vampire so sabotaging the ritual early on wasn't the original plan. They were going to let the ritual happen so they would have a chance of killing Klaus because he would be vulnerable when the transformation would start to take hold. Elijah explained that. Once they found out the vampire and werewolf was Caroline and Tyler, well that was a game changer for everyone,so Damon took it upon himself to sabotage the ritual because he realized he messed up in feeding vamp blood to Elena. So he figured he had to stop and delay the ritual only to prevent Elena from turning. So yes Klaus turning Jenna was totally unexpected.


    Edited on 05/09/2011 1:35pm
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  • Avatar of angelpuppet

    angelpuppet

    [54]May 9, 2011
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    what do you think of damon will becoming a hybrid to. i mean he is bitten and i sure hope he wont die so
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    CheckeredYcats

    [55]May 9, 2011
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    angelpuppet wrote:
    what do you think of damon will becoming a hybrid to. i mean he is bitten and i sure hope he wont die so


    I guess it's possible, but I really doubt it would happen. Out of the brother's my bet is on Stefan becoming a hybrid. Joseph Morgan said that Klaus was going to take an interest in Stefan. Plus, when Klaus stabbed Stefan during the ritual he said that he had a better plan for him.

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  • Avatar of HappyGirl818

    HappyGirl818

    [56]May 10, 2011
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    jrsgalaxy wrote:



    HappyGirl818 wrote:


    I really liked this episode. I especially thought John sacrificing himself for Elena was very touching, and I cried during the funeral with his voice over letter. And that is something that does not happen often when I watch TVD.


    I thought the actual sacrifice ritual was a bit of a let down. Though this could have just been because I read an article saying season 3 was going to be "the season of the originals," so while I was watching it I was like well obviously Klaus can't die. So that sort of took out the suspense for me. But I did think the scenes with Jenna and Elena were very well done, and I was sadder to see Jenna go than I would have ever thought possible.


    But I have to ask, did they all just forget that a werewolf and vampire were going to be needed for the ritual or did they just assume Klaus already had some on hand? Because they didn't seem to be too concerned with that until this episode. If it wasn't Jules and Jenna it was going to be Tyler and Caroline! Then what would have the group done? I guess the plan's main concern was just to keep Elena alive, but still this just goes to show how it wasn't really the best plan in the world.


    I guess they assumed they wouldn't know the werewolf and vampire so sabotaging the ritual early on wasn't the original plan. They were going to let the ritual happen so they would have a chance of killing Klaus because he would be vulnerable when the transformation would start to take hold. Elijah explained that. Once they found out the vampire and werewolf was Caroline and Tyler, well that was a game changer for everyone,so Damon took it upon himself to sabotage the ritual because he realized he messed up in feeding vamp blood to Elena. So he figured he had to stop and delay the ritual only to prevent Elena from turning. So yes Klaus turning Jenna was totally unexpected.




    Well yes I know all that, and I agree I was not expecting Klaus to turn Jenna. It just seems odd to me that they didn't even seem to wonder who the vampire and werewolf were going to be. I mean Katherine was planning to hand Caroline and Tyler over to Klaus, so it really wasn't that far of a leap.

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  • Avatar of gatoraderising

    gatoraderising

    [57]May 10, 2011
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    HappyGirl818 wrote:

    jrsgalaxy wrote:



    HappyGirl818 wrote:


    I really liked this episode. I especially thought John sacrificing himself for Elena was very touching, and I cried during the funeral with his voice over letter. And that is something that does not happen often when I watch TVD.


    I thought the actual sacrifice ritual was a bit of a let down. Though this could have just been because I read an article saying season 3 was going to be "the season of the originals," so while I was watching it I was like well obviously Klaus can't die. So that sort of took out the suspense for me. But I did think the scenes with Jenna and Elena were very well done, and I was sadder to see Jenna go than I would have ever thought possible.


    But I have to ask, did they all just forget that a werewolf and vampire were going to be needed for the ritual or did they just assume Klaus already had some on hand? Because they didn't seem to be too concerned with that until this episode. If it wasn't Jules and Jenna it was going to be Tyler and Caroline! Then what would have the group done? I guess the plan's main concern was just to keep Elena alive, but still this just goes to show how it wasn't really the best plan in the world.


    I guess they assumed they wouldn't know the werewolf and vampire so sabotaging the ritual early on wasn't the original plan. They were going to let the ritual happen so they would have a chance of killing Klaus because he would be vulnerable when the transformation would start to take hold. Elijah explained that. Once they found out the vampire and werewolf was Caroline and Tyler, well that was a game changer for everyone,so Damon took it upon himself to sabotage the ritual because he realized he messed up in feeding vamp blood to Elena. So he figured he had to stop and delay the ritual only to prevent Elena from turning. So yes Klaus turning Jenna was totally unexpected.




    Well yes I know all that, and I agree I was not expecting Klaus to turn Jenna. It just seems odd to me that they didn't even seem to wonder who the vampire and werewolf were going to be. I mean Katherine was planning to hand Caroline and Tyler over to Klaus, so it really wasn't that far of a leap.



    They could have thought that Klaus already had has vampire and werewolf for the ritual. I don't think they even knew that Tyler was back in town unitl Damon saved Caroline and Tyler. I don't really think it would have change anything if they did know. I'm sure Klaus even had backup's for his backup's he has been planning this for 1,000 yrs.
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  • Avatar of jrsgalaxy

    jrsgalaxy

    [58]May 10, 2011
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    gatoraderising wrote:
    HappyGirl818 wrote:

    jrsgalaxy wrote:



    HappyGirl818 wrote:


    I really liked this episode. I especially thought John sacrificing himself for Elena was very touching, and I cried during the funeral with his voice over letter. And that is something that does not happen often when I watch TVD.


    I thought the actual sacrifice ritual was a bit of a let down. Though this could have just been because I read an article saying season 3 was going to be "the season of the originals," so while I was watching it I was like well obviously Klaus can't die. So that sort of took out the suspense for me. But I did think the scenes with Jenna and Elena were very well done, and I was sadder to see Jenna go than I would have ever thought possible.


    But I have to ask, did they all just forget that a werewolf and vampire were going to be needed for the ritual or did they just assume Klaus already had some on hand? Because they didn't seem to be too concerned with that until this episode. If it wasn't Jules and Jenna it was going to be Tyler and Caroline! Then what would have the group done? I guess the plan's main concern was just to keep Elena alive, but still this just goes to show how it wasn't really the best plan in the world.


    I guess they assumed they wouldn't know the werewolf and vampire so sabotaging the ritual early on wasn't the original plan. They were going to let the ritual happen so they would have a chance of killing Klaus because he would be vulnerable when the transformation would start to take hold. Elijah explained that. Once they found out the vampire and werewolf was Caroline and Tyler, well that was a game changer for everyone,so Damon took it upon himself to sabotage the ritual because he realized he messed up in feeding vamp blood to Elena. So he figured he had to stop and delay the ritual only to prevent Elena from turning. So yes Klaus turning Jenna was totally unexpected.




    Well yes I know all that, and I agree I was not expecting Klaus to turn Jenna. It just seems odd to me that they didn't even seem to wonder who the vampire and werewolf were going to be. I mean Katherine was planning to hand Caroline and Tyler over to Klaus, so it really wasn't that far of a leap.



    They could have thought that Klaus already had has vampire and werewolf for the ritual. I don't think they even knew that Tyler was back in town unitl Damon saved Caroline and Tyler. I don't really think it would have change anything if they did know. I'm sure Klaus even had backup's for his backup's he has been planning this for 1,000 yrs.
    They probably assumed he already had them and like I said as long as the werewolf and vampire were not people they knew they weren't going to save them. Killing Klaus was more important. If two people had to be sacrificed to prevent Klaus from killing more than they were onboard for that. Damon only decided to save Caroline because one it was Caroline and more importantly he didn't want Elena hating him forever.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [59]May 10, 2011
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    Good episode even though the showdown was weak and even though we'll have Klaus and bro as enemies in the future I was ready for Klaus to be done. That witch and her whole family wiped out was kind of sad and not sure how I feel about the finale being all about saving Damon but it was an okay episode.

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