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The Walking Dead S04E07: "Dead Weight"

You can take the Governor out of Woodbury, but you can't take the murderous maniac out of the Governor. "Dead Weight," the second term of the Governor's two-part solo arc of Season 4, continued the confusing wobbling between Good Governor and Bad Governor that started with "Live Bait." He's a nice man who wants to protect his surrogate family! But he's also a dude you do not want to go golfing with. I guess the whole purpose of these two episodes was to expect the unexpected from this guy while he's being ripped in two by his dueling consciousnesses. It made "Dead Weight" an hour full of surprises, but seriously WHO IS THIS GUY and what does he want?

On the one hand, Governor Brian is the protector and caregiver of Lilly and Meghan (and Tara, maybe?), willing to do whatever it takes to keep them safe. On the other hand, his idea of "whatever it takes" is systematically killing anyone who stands in his way of taking control of Camp Martinez. On its own, I don't see too much wrong with this. Zombie apocalypses can be confusing times for feelings, this is a TV show, and this is the Governor, after all, and he hasn't always been the most reasonable man. I can accept that these two Governors live in the same body, as heavy handed as it is. 

But I just don't buy or want lovey-dovey "Let's have a picnic!" Governor so far. An all-caps "UGH" to him and Lilly. Other than two people so desperate that they'll paw at any member of the opposite sex that's within pawing distance, what's the foundation for this Governor-Lilly hookup that is so important to his confusing dichotomy that we're being subjected to? How did these two go from strangers to hand-holding domestic partnership in such a short time? When I saw the Governor and Lilly playing House in the RV, it kind of made me want to puke.

It appears the show is trying to sell us that the Governor and Lilly are in love, but nope! Sorry, these people are not in love or whatever passes for a relationship in this world. We watch television hoping that everything happens for a reason, or that it will set something up for the future. I'm crossing my fingers for that to mean something really terrible will happen to both Meghan and Lilly, sending the Governor into an epic rage of bloodshed because I'm going to need some payoff for seeing one of the most diabolical characters in the comic world be sappy over some flavorless lady who fed him Spaghettios and jumped his bones in the back of a truck. This relationship didn't work in "Live Bait," and it still did not work in "Dead Weight."  Yet it's such a huge part of the story that's being jammed down our throats.

The other Governor I approve of. This Governor was a throwback to Season 3, still thirsted for power, and had the morals of a six-term Senator. He was like a lion taking over a new pride, with this "mane" (ha ha) goal being to kill the competition and assume the role of top cat. He 5-ironed Martinez while the two were keeping up the Woodbury tradition of hitting golf balls into the yonder and then dragged him kicking and screaming into a zombie pit. That was a grade-A kill, but he could have gotten the plus by saying, "Drinking and driving can be bad for your health!" before hitting him. The guy still needs to work on his one-liners. Then he took out self-proclaimed interim leader Pete by gut-stabbing him in his trailer and then rolling him into the pond with a weight attached to his foot. Again, creative technique with the cinder-block anklet or whatever, but no zinger like, "Out here, it's either sink or swim!" or "Water you doing down there?"

And finally, the Governor held Mitch at gunpoint and let him know that his life would be spared because Mitch was the only other one willing to resort to inhumane tricks to survive out there in the wilderness (and maybe it's because Mitch knows how to drive that tank they have). And for some reason, everyone had a problem when Pete said he was taking over as new leader but no one cared when the Governor, a scary new guy with an eye patch, took over as leader following the very fishy disappearances of the previous two leaders.

So now the Governor is leader of Camp Martinez and he's spying on the prison. It looks as though he'll lead his group, with Mitch's help, on an attack on Rick's turf, and this time, he's bringing a tank. But I just don't know who this guy is or why the show is taking the Governor in this direction. Are we supposed to be impressed that he adopted a new family? Or are we supposed to be scared that he'll do anything he can to "survive"? I'm not sure the past two episodes sold either of those options, instead spending way too much time on a muddled version of a character that we once feared. Can we get back to watching sick Lizzie slowly die now?



NOTES


– Mitch and Pete were played by Kirk Acevedo and Enver Gjokaj, a fantastic surprise (because I forgot they had been added as guest stars). Acevedo of course you know from Fringe and Oz, and Gjokaj had his big break in Dollhouse and played a friend of Abed and Troy's in Community. Given the way the Governor has handled threats to his power, I don't know how long Acevedo will stick around, and it was one and done for the talented Gjokaj, who barely got a chance to show off his skills. 

– But hey! The episodes LOOKED GREAT. It really took advantage of the beauty of the South.

– Well, Martinez's buddy Shumpert is dead.

– And the way he went out... tied to a block underwater! Total bummer. And yep, zombies can live underwater as per World War Z (the book, haven't seen the movie yet) rules. But did he stay dead for a little long without turning? 

– The search of the cabin was scary! And the headless corpses with "Liar" and "Rapist" signs were awesome, but I don't know what the purpose of this whole excursion was. 

– I also don't know what the purpose of the attempted midnight escape via car was. And what was up with all those zombies stuck in the mud? Was that the secret burial grounds of idiots from Woodstock '99?

– Ummm, how did Lilly and the Governor get their own motor home space? As newbies to Camp Martinez, shouldn't they be huddled under corrugated sheet metal first until there's a vacancy? That's like some vagrant off the streets getting the master bedroom.

– So Tara and the hottie at camp are a lesbian couple now? Does the zombie apocalypse make people lower their standards, ignore courtship, and jump willy-nilly into relationships? Or is it just that The Walking Dead has NO IDEA how relationships work? 

– More chess metaphors? What is this, a creative writing class from whatever year chess was invented? TV writers: Stop using chess metaphors!!!


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 4/3/2016

Season 6 : Episode 16

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Yes it was nice to see the guest stars, but after Gjokaj's tiny role on Dexter, I wasn't surprised to see him cop it so swiftly.
I thought the episode was v. interesting, as it showed the 'guvna' struggling to be good. I think it's clear, that the purpose of the cabin trip was to present another dead family (with a gone crazy grieving father) to the big 'G' dog and to emphasise to him that families can't survive the apocalypse in the long-term. He tried to escape his murderous cravings by taking them off in the car, but realised how vulnerable this made them and returned. At this point he came to the decision that he would have to do whatever necessary to keep them alive and accepted his prior crimes, no longer feeling guilt, but rather the conviction that his Woodberry decisions had actually been the right ones all along.
It's true that G and Lilly aren't the perfect couple, but desperate times lead to heightened emotions and a longing for someone to keep you safe/that you can protect. I don't think that's that dificult to empathise with, is it? In the current state of affairs for them, it's not like they're talking long-term committment, is it?! Also, G dog's unhinged and desperate to get back the status of family man. None of this is that surprising is it, Tim?
Ok, I think I've made my point. Enough rhetoricals.
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I mostly liked the previous episode, although some of The Governor's decisions seemed a little forced. This one though I had issues with, aside from the fact that this excursion is harming the pace of the show. The Governor showed us A LOT of different sides in this episode. I think most of them seem plausible enough, although the sickly sweet stuff with the GF and that insufferable child were less so. No I think my main issue is that all of these conflicting behaviours were all thrown together in an episode. They were too varied and too muddled to paint a clear picture, and even more troubling was that they were supposed to also represent a character-arc, taking him from broken loner to the head of a loyal community and dangerous militia. It was just too much to do in such a short span of time, not only episode time but also real world time and as such it feels highly contrived. If The Governor were away from Rick's group for a longer period of time then maybe I could imagine most of this arc actually happening. Maybe they could have done episodes showing the passage of time between some of these events happening. Without that he comes off as more of a cartoon character and it's a shame.
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Well so much for Season 4 streak of awesome episodes. Good job Scott M Gimple for effing it, couldn't let a good thing keep going huh? Never seen a show that couldn't keep a pace going, even 24 in Season 8 with it's annoying Dana Walsh storyline was better than this garbage.
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seriously don't give a cr-p about Brain.. going back to the bad plot of S3 afer a few good episodes
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Episodes 6 and 7 have been a breather for me and a pause from the boredom experienced with the last episodes of season 4. I think that this and the last episode are the best ones so far from season 4. I'm fed up with Rick, his kid and whatever, and am really rooting for the Governor!

Tim, I always agree with your reviews, but gotta say that I don't really follow your points of view with the last episodes' reviews. I don't really care at all for the flu arc and the whats-their-face deaths we saw on the previous episodes.
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Completely agree with you.
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So the Governor is BAD? .....umm OK
Just defeating what little depth you tried to give him last week.. This episode was straight filler to me. Martinez would have never let his guard down so easily after knowing what G-FRESH had done. This episode gets a D+.
This next episode better be the final battle with "Brian"! time to move on from this plot line..
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I really did not like the intrusion of these two episodes centred on the Governor, it seriously disrupted the flow of the show and if there is one thing that has ALWAYS been a small niggle with me its the inconsistent pacing. These episodes were slow, tedious and why it had to take two episodes to tell the Governors story I don't know.......surely all of that could have been pared down to one episode and then we get back to the prison.

Speaking of the prison, while I am intrigued by the prospect of Rick and crew fighting for their place of relative safety I am also completely bored by the prospect.....its The Tombs take 2 and this time one side has a tank. We have been there and seen it all before so could we please not rehash the hogwash that was The Tombs??
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Still don't like the governor, still don't care about him, and don't care about his stupid storyline and his obsessive murdering spree. The best thing I can say about this episode was that it was marginally better than the last. He's just not an interesting enough character to warrant a full 2 hours dedicated to just him. Especially not 2 hours essentially building back up to the same thing as last season.

I'm really having trouble understanding why they decided to do this. And the season was going so well, too.
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Now we know his side of the story...He is still a sick motherF
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OMG WHO GIVES A SH.. ABOUT THE GOVERNOR AND THE SAME PLOTLINE FROM LAST SEASON WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'm so done with the governor. Most people didn't like the last episode but it was kind of ok, for redeeming the governor or.. Brian. But this episode it was ehhh... hmm. Let's rethink that. After he killed Martinez (whom I actually liked.. wanted to see more Daryl/Martinez bonding..) that was IT for me. And kind of stupid of Martinez to think he has changed, he gunned down lots of innocent people in front of your face dude. Doesn't matter if he's holding a little girl or not. Next time, leave that brah in a pit.
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What other programme set around an ensemble cast would be arrogant enough to do two complete mid season episodes around a part time character to the complete exclusion of ALL other characters?? I feel like my choice in tv programme has been interrupted and replaced by something completely boring, pointless, annoying and unwelcome ...can we please return to the scheduled programme.. you know the story with Rick, Darryl and the people we've actually been watching for 4 years??

As for the relationships issues brought up....I don't get the feeling the show is trying to convince us the Governor is n love at all.. its about the pretence of a normal life.. like the one he had with a wife and daughter. And yes in life and death and stressful situations relationships do happen fast ..the normal societal behaviours don't exist anymore.. and people want comfort where they can find it physical or otherwise.

Tara said last week she was gay.. they were clearly flirting.. they got together.. that sounds like how most relationships happen.. wonder how tv.com reviewers do things?
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enough with the stupid governor already .. 2 weeks in a row without rick, daryl or michonne is way too much!
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Anyways... The show's just forcing to deliver the confrontation missed last season by creating Woodbury 1.5 and an actual reason to attack (as in a safe haven)... As you know, in zombie apocalypse there are 3 L's: Location-Location-Location.
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I was over woodbury vs prison last season, I am so not thrilled about this new development..
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Why is Maggie looking so old? And when did she hooked up with the Governor? Is that annoying kid a recast of Beth? This is so confusing now...
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hahhhh, totally thought the same.
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Although I agree that this wasn't the best of episodes, I can totally reconcile the gov's actions wit his character. I dont much enjoy his romance, and I too believe it is rushed, but it is not without purpose, and is quite understandable. It is not about how kind d girl's been to him or how pretty/not pretty she is... in her and in her daughter, he finds a reflection of his family that he so craves for, perhaps because of the similar family structure. And we all know that the gov is a little nutty in d head, he was so desperate to hold on to his family that he kept zombie-penny as his pet! Besides, I think this point is made plenty clear when he says "I cant lose u again."

Also, many believe that he was trying to change... He wasnt... Most see him as a total villain, but he is not. He has no qualms about helping anyone. Its just that the boundaries he's willing to cross to protect his people brings him under a bad light.

So I do think that his character arc has been worked on pretty damn well... but whats irritating is the fact that the show is again leading us to familiar territory. (The whole two brothers dynamic was a dead-ringer for a season rick-shawn dynamic.) And whats coming is most likely going to be just like a season 3 finale all over again. I just hope he dies and they can move on, else things will get tedious.
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Well, season 4 feels useless at this moment. I guess they're trying to add their own twists to the series, but at the same time they want to stick too hard to the original comic series, resulting in this... mess.
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Evil Governor is more fun than dull good Gov. The way he gained leadership was so sneaky. I can see a few cast members being bumped off next ep. Hopefully not Maggie though.
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Gov, go nuclear on that prison... now!
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I actually loved the last two Governor-oriented episodes. It showed more depth to his character, but he certainly hasn't changed, sick as ever.

I hoped to see more of the story behind the rapist and murderer signs. Who did that, and why?

Anyway, it's been good to get a break from the other depressing group.
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hard to keep watching ''depressing nothingness'', episode after episode.

needs interesting progression to balance things out. the show needs more ass kicking and booty. less decay and misery.
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To be honest, since episode 6, my interest in the show is fading. The Governor again ? Are we going to see the same thing is in Season 3: the governor attacking the prison with a group of people ? The TWD needs to add something new otherwise the show will loose some fans ...
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sn't it amazing how that bloke out of Fringe looks so ripped? Presumably he's got some food store and dietary supplements stashed away somewhere...and the 'roids

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I think it would be neat if they would do some backstory scenes of characters like they used to do on "Lost"--glimpses of their pre-Zombie Apocalypse lives. We saw some of that with Rick but not much backstory on the governor or most of the other characters.
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I think it would feel unrealistic for them to have time for flashbacks when they are constantly running away from zombies.

Not to mention, their lives probably had nothing to do with what they are going through right now.
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I didn't like the governor in season 3 and he hasn't gotten any better. His actions made even less sense then Rick thinking he was going to police the zombies in the first few episodes. What exactly was the original point of attacking the prison again? Merle told the governor that these people have been useful in the past and he's been loosing guys to his runs on occasion. The prison group has survived out there and taken down a bunch of walkers that were in the governor's "red zone." I get his attacking them later but there wasn't a point in torturing Glen and Maggie. I was interested in season 3 not because of or woodberry.

So not only would I rather watch paint dry than watch another episode of the governor (new stuff or old) but the new characters are extremely uninteresting so if they are added to the main cast (which would typically have to be your assumption) then it's just going to continue.

I'm more interested in the radio signal that Daryl picked up with the group on the way to the vet hospital.

I also think that the best way to add any cast members that the writers wish to add would either be that radio signal or more people who are actually surviving. There's at least three camps of people right near where the prison is, let's see someone else who can survive on their own be asked the 3 questions and enter that way. Maybe said person has a hard time adjusting, I dunno. There's so much potential and I would just hate to see too much of the season dedicated to the story arch from last season.

Now I do want to make this clear, I feel that this has everything to do with the character of the governor rather than the actor, I believe Morrissey did fantastic job. I believe the problem is with the writing of the character, that the writers became too attached to him as a character that they didn't look at what they were doing to the show.
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I like the Governor's character development, but a repeat of the prison fight? Meh.
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Wasn't the most exciting ep bar the Martinez hit and eventual slaughter.

Actually missed the darkness and drama of the prison though tbh and can't wait to get back to it, regardless of another battle on its way.
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I think the Governor does love Lily, as much as a man can love a woman under these circumstances.

They may not have earned the relationship the way Daryl & Carol, Maggie & Glenn or Rick & Lori earned theirs, but I'm convinced the Governor would see it as cheating for him to be with another woman, would feel violated should someone attempts anything against Lily and would not consider to leave without her despite the fact they are not married.
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"Other than two people so desperate that they'll paw at any member of the opposite sex that's within pawing distance, what's the foundation for this Governor-Lilly hookup that is so important to his confusing dichotomy that we're being subjected to?"

Uh, you know, because of her kid reminding him of his daughter....you've been paying attention, right? He probably DOESN'T love this lady a whole ton, but the point is even with a milquetoast piece of ass and a very warm reminder of the kid he lost is enough for him to TRY and be good, and of course fail. Would you have enjoyed the episode more if the Governer was not suspensful at all and just decided he wanted to be evil? Honestly I keep hoping he doesn't retread complete old Governer, as we've seen that before. The idea of him actually maybe at some point trying to help the prison people (now that we know he probably had nothing to do with the virus or the rat feast riling up the gate zombies) was one that interested me, as I like once evil villians trying to make amends.

Now, if the govs new upgraded fish tank (now able to accommodate whole bodies too) as well as his visit to the prison has anything to say about it, he probably will result to his old tricks (which I predict will result in his new daughter dying, with him becoming so beside himself that he either goes out in a blaze of glory, or actually in his final breaths tries to do something merciful for team prison). Anyway, we shall see, but the Governors inner conflict, and the more "unpredictable" he is, the better I say. I actually find his murderous rage self to be a bit boring and predictable...
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But yes, ideally an increasingly sick governor going back to his old ways WITH TWISTS sounds good to me. Like imagine the old head saving governor is back but now he does want to do some good things too? I like the sound of a chaotic almost neutral.

By the way, anyone REALLY curious about what happened up at that Cabin? With the Governors still mysterious penchant for cutting off his enemies heads (he vaguely explained it last season but I kind of don't buy what he said), I'm wondering if he either was the one who did that (after all they aren't a super long drive from Woodburry still), or if it was similar to something awful that happened to him and his family at the hand of military people (such as the signs that were hung around them like "Rapist" and "murderer").
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Yeah I totally agree with all u've said, but I dont think the governor had any intentions of redeeming himself... I think thats just a part of who he is. It depends on which side ur on I guess... To his people, he's viewed as a good guy who will do anything to survive.... To outsiders, he can only be viewed as a villain who'd do anything to anyone.

Basically he's just COMPLETELY okay with morally grey, or morally black even! But his motives are admirable, to an extent. He's a survivor.
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P.S. Pretty sure he stabbed Pete in the back....or at least I'd like to imagine that's what he did.
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I'm also pretty sure he stabbed Pete in the back. He was following him into the trailer.
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...and your point is...?
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Why, oh why, didn't Martinez let that zombie crawl through the fire and get the Guv 2 episodes ago? I was done with the character last season and welcomed him driving off into the zombie sunset. Just when the medicine arrives and the prison can move forward such as moving out of the prison and getting the show back on the road, now we have to drag our heels again as we watch just how mean Guv Brian is. Look, we were already treated to how morally bankcrupt this mofo is so this is just rehashing a given. Hopefully they will find a way to "Dearly Depart" his character ASAP and lets get on with the struggles of the "prisoners".
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After 2 episodes away from the prison I realized something: the show is still boring.

Also, AMC on demand edited out a scene. after Alicia calls out Tara on her bulldog, Tara is about to say something, weird black screen, back to everyone smiling like Oh, Tara! So, I think missed something, because next thing I know Tara is a lesbian and I kinda like her now.
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she replies "Yes, I am"
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Thanks. That helps to make me respect her just a little bit more now.
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Ok, Normally i love to write a review (not so detailed as Price), but for this episode i have one word for this episode....BORING!
I cannot believe i just wrote that about TWD..i love love this series...
I also understand that they needed to work through the story of the governor to get him at the jail area...but somehow i kept thinking, they could have done that in one episode and it would have been fine too..
The other episode was cool about the governor, but to see him get control again of a camp, so he can form a army...i didn't need to see all that..

I miss the rest of the crew :(:(
DId anybody think also that the governors new girlfriend looked a lot like Lauren?? or is it just me...and me crazy mind???
I saw a bit of the mid season finale and i loved how they said in the end: SOME WILL FALL....nice...!!

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Lilly looks alot like Maggie to me.
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I thought the same thing!
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LOL I LOVE your first picture... priceless.

I think the answer for what he feels for Lilly is in his one comment to her (while trying to get them to leave), "I can't lose you again". I had a feeling from the first time he laid eyes on Meghan that he had superimposed his original family onto this one. I think he sees Lilly more as the wife he couldn't save and Meghan as the daughter he couldn't protect. That's how I'm reading it, anyway.

I love how he can't just say no like a sane, non-psychotic person. Instead when asked to share the crown, he yells he doesn't want it and proceeds to murder Martinez. Can't say I didn't see it coming. While I do think he had the intention of trying to change in Live Bait, his true character would never be able to. In the end he's just as crazy and sadistic as he once was, hiding behind another mask of civility.
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To be honest, I think Martinez lowered his guard because all he saw was a father.

For some reason, people in the zombie apocalypse tend to do that regardless if its Hershel, or Rick, or the Governor.
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And another thing. Whats with the Gov strong-arming Mitch into suckin on a cig? Where's that at? Jeez, Gov, the guy quit already. Give him a break! Power trippin the guy. Guess that gets the Gov off.......
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Probably a way of recreating his brother in his mind.
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Hey wait a zombie-kickin minute here! Didn't everybody in the whole stinking camp accept that whole "well, Martinez musta got wasted and then he musta walked too close to a pit full of biters and then he musta fell in and got his ass all ate up and well shit happens, the crazy sumbitch" a little TOO easily? I mean, as coach Ditka would say........"Come on, MAN!". I'm sorry, but here in the modern post zombie age, you DO NOT get drunk and stupid and become an instant casualty if you're a healthy young man and the leader of a camp that's out in the woods surrounded by fucking zombies.
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That probably says more about Martinez's leadership than the people he commands: it wasn't odd for them to believe that's what Martinez would do, same as it wasn't odd for them to accept Pete just because Martinez was gone.

To me, this says they weren't exactly great leaders: they were just the leaders their group was stuck with.
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I actually liked both episodes, and I think that the point is people don't come back from certain places, once you've committed certain acts doing so again is no big deal. I keep hearing how everyone thinks the "Live Bait" episode was the Governor trying to change his ways. No, don't forget he saved and protected a whole town called Woodbury that had many people in it too, saving this family isn't some redemption song, it's the Governors multifaceted self doing what he does. Yeah, he doesn't always kill, he does sometimes save people, generally when it suits his purposes, you know like building a new empire.

The point of his relationship with Lilly is no different than it was with Andrea. In both cases the women were looking for someone strong to follow and saw small good deeds being done by the Governor so assumed he is a good guy. Really he is a wolf in sheep clothing and based solely on his tv show character is not doing anything unexpected at all. Yeah the relationship this go round with Lilly seems a bit forced and moving overly quickly but hey, she is a lonely girl in desperate situation for anyone to help her. I don't think her actions would have been different if it was Rick that had found her family, except in that Rick may not have accepted her advances.

The Governor killing Pete was pretty obvious to happen because Pete was a good guy that wanted to do right by everyone (another Rick). The Governor despised him personally (Rick connection) and morally (good being weak). I didn't realize the Governor left Pete brain intact until he was back at the lack and we saw that he turned the lake into another zombie aquarium. Uh, gross that is how diseases are spread now that water can't be used for anything.

I was really stoked to finally see the tank and what that one vehicle foretells. I'm really looking forward to the final battle between the Governor and Rick and felt like this has been drawn out long enough so hopefully everything will be wrapped up by the end of this season.
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I've got to agree, in Lily's and Andrea's case - and the Woodbury woman before Andrea - they took the initiative with the Governor and he just responded to their advances.

Believe it or not, no one has ever taken the initiative with Rick. And, sadly for him, Lori always reponded to both his and Shane's advances.
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yeah that is the sucky thing about Andrea being dead now, as the whole plotline that develops in the comics with her character and Rick is completely closed off.
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Rick and Dale.

Andrea never got to develop something with Dale too.
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The Governor is the worst.
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I knew there was a price to pay for last week's solid character building episode. I mean, it's not like TWD could have slowed things down and delved into the psyche of a broken individual without following it up with nonsense. This was the "Carl & Michonne go exploring" portion of 'Clear'.

For all of the intriguing and really cool directions they could have taken the Governor, basically, we're EXACTLY where we started...with him looking to take over the prison. Replace this new group with the past survivors of Woodbury and not a single thing has changed, so what exactly was the point of these past two episodes...to show us that the Governor's crazy? Thanks tips.

So many things wrong with this episode, not the least of which is my favourite playing fast and loose with the "zombie rules". Some zombies turn right away, some wait an extra minute or two for dramatic effect and ones that are going to end up as the latest Governor collection...well, they'll be polite and wait an hour or two. Other head shaking moments:

- So, their fancy new trailer has a leak in it, huh? Haven't they established that is hasn't rained in a long time?
- Which sort of begs the question, how the hell did that road turn into the muddy Labrea Tar Pit for zombies?
- Speaking of which, I guess they weren't THAT desperate to get away since one impediment and they went right back. Unless of course that was the ONLY road out of town.

But, on the up side...it's FINALLY looking like Tim is seeing just how badly this show is and continues to be. Nice to have you back Timmy my boy.
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Loved both episodes.

The two-part arc was an elaborate presentation on how people can't/won't/don't change.

The Governor found a measure of salvation with his new "family", but simply cannot help himself. He had to choose to either end it (taking deadly risks in the first episode that almost had him eaten) or embrace it. People don't change, so he chose the latter.

This motif was all over the episode. The cabin excursion showed "people don't change" with the Liar, Rapist and Murderer signs, followed by the Murderer's decision to end things instead of embrace them. The car trip was The Governor's last attempt to escape the person he knew he would become again, a last ditch effort to end the person he maybe didn't want to be.

He's manipulative, yes. Cold, yes. Evil, definitely. He's also cunning, opportunistic and he commands the trust of those around him without effort. Two episodes showed how he's able to build control over a group of people from the ground up. Not only is this a portrayal of human charisma, but also a lesson in politics. Like it or not, a lot of the people we elect would conduct themselves identically in the same circumstances, yet we still follow, gravitate toward personalities that will make decisions for us without considering the consequences. It's just easier that way.

I loved it. It was a much better way to set up The Governor than all of last season did. Unfortunately, the content of these two episodes couldn't happen without having introduced him in that previous mess.
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Just marathoned last four episodes, so this is late, but thanks for that observation on the "car trip", as I didn't get that at all. I may not agree with it though. He gives up and turns back because the road was blocked by zombies stuck in mud??? If he is who he is, then he would have found a way around them, or through them. He could have used his ruthless side to help free them from what was in their way of what he desired. If that was the show's intent, it wasn't clear, to me anyway, and came off as lame. That, or they only had a vague idea of who / what the Governor is and never made true effort to cement his personality. Morrisey's portrayal was not the best either, imo. I never read the comics, but I remember seeing that the Governor looked like Danny Trejo in those.

I also didn't quite get the killing of the other camp they came upon. I had thought the Governor did it and when he was trying to get away with the girls, it was going to be revealed by then it was he that killed them and took the supplies for himself or that purpose. Guess not.
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Just gonna say....I used to LOVE Darkwing duck!
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Good comment too btw
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Speaking of the infection, somebody from the Governor's camp is bound to fall sick as they reach the contaminated area.
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I was wondering why the virus had not hit Martinez's camp. It's odd since they are not that far from the prison.
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Can the writers of TWD just end this show already before it really goes in the toilet, serioulsy come on, the same story line again with the govenor? really? serioulsy?
Why the hell did we watch all the episodes where Ricks people are dying of a strange infection, only to find out nothing (a chance to really delve into the story) and have the end result of the car turning up and then WHAM!!! Govenor time, Lets forget about all the story lines we set up previous and just skip it and use old shitty story arcs, IF TWD cant write a good show then either
1. Hand over the writing to someone else
2. End the show

This show is brilliant and im sorry to say if it keeps going the way its Predictabbley going then it will end up like Falling Skies, a once great show turned to shit cos of bad story writing.
rant over
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yo got it so wrong!
this show is getting better and better!

but i think it could be much greater,but hey bugdet$

they could show the past lives of the people,and the start of the outbreak what it realy is so we know but the shows people dont(yet)

and do more episodes like this two

but to do all this it has to be a 30 episode seasons
much more $$
but for now this is a hell of a show realy!

only thing is i want info see stuff of the outbreak before right in it and why(and i hear a spinn off will just deliver that)

and start saying ZOMBIES instead of biters walkers etc
i love this show...i even dont like zombie movies yet this is the show that i stay home for no matter what party is in town:) !

after breaking bad this is my nr 1 now
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What amazed me in the last few episodes is that so many people seem to have survived out there in TWD world (even the quite naive). They weren't there this numerous before and now they all come peeping out their trailers/cabins. And although it's refreshing it also feels forced to me. Seems to me the writers desperately needed new zombie-food to continue the story.
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Yeah right, like all these camps keep popping up outta nowhere, only to be killed 5 minutes later. So....they survived for a year (or so, how long has it really been?) under these super harsh conditions. And I do mean harsh, the apocalypse is bad enough, but zombies outnumber ppl at least 500 to 1, so....am I missing something here?
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I was thinking the same thing, Rick and the gang spent all their time running away from zombies until they found the relative safety of the prison but everyone else is just out camping in the woods.
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Well, I called it. Woodbury 2.0, y'all. And now we have a pretty good idea of how Woodbury 1.0 came about.
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Ok, correct me if I'm wrong; we picked up right where we last saw the guvnah right? after the shooting of his woodburians on the road he fled with Martinez and Co. then his minions also left. all of this was happening at the same time when Rick gave shelter to all those Town sheeople.
How long has it been since then? 1 month? 2 maybe?
So than means the guvnah was walking on his own for what? like 2 weeks? he was emanciated and so weakened after 2 weeks? lol
Then he found his new family and stayed with them for like another 2 weeks or so? they left the flat and found camp Martinez and took over leadreship in 5 days right? meanwhile Rick was playing farmer and Carol was burning people @ Jail Town.... fast forward till today and it took Brian 2 months to find a new folk of minions and a new family to go after Rick's and Michone's heads. Aaaaaand here we go again, BARF. I want my money back :/
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6 months had passed since woodbury when season 4 started............
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Oh, ok, getting attached to a family and adopting them as your own must be easier when there's nobody else around, so the willy nilly thing kinda makes more sense for me now. Although, 6 months is plenty of time when you've found THE one, my husband and I eloped 6 months after we met, been happily married for 6 years now :D
We were very willy nilly!!!
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It's also plenty of time when one of the people is a manipulative psychopath.
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Connection works both ways:
  • the same capacity to connect with Lily and Meghan is what moved Brian to kill Pete and Martinez because neither could protect them,
  • the same capacity to connect with Tara is what made him aware at how to manipulate Mitch,
  • the awareness of the connection between the sisters is what told him Andrea was the best way to get back at MichonneAnd what told Michonne that Penny was the best way to get back at him.
If you stick to the good side of human connection, then you'll never see danger coming just like Martinez. If you stick to the bad side of connection, then you'll only underestimate the guy, much like Milton did.
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Yeah, I don't think you can legitimately claim to connect with people when you're capable of killing pretty much anyone as you deem necessary.

In this episode alone, he killed Martinez and Pete without hesitation. We've also seen him kill Milton, and leave Andrea to die by zombie. He killed all those National Guard people, ordered Merle's death, and had Michonne hunted, so it's safe to assume that anyone who decided to leave Woodbury never made it very far. Plus, all those people he gunned down last season.

Yeah, he totally connects with people. Is there like an empathy award? Because I totally want to nominate him.
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I think the point of his family is to set him apart from Rick: the Governor can connect again.

What ruined Michonne, changed Tyreese or messed up Carl won't ever affect Brian because he'll never lose the capacity to connect with people.
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I think the point of this new "family" is that they remind him so much of his own dead wife and daughter that he's sometimes more or less convinced that they are them. When he said to Lilly: "I can't lose you again," that's what he was thinking at the moment. IMO.
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The Govenor isn't in real love, his slightly disturbed mind is seeing his former wife and daughter in his "new" family. As evidenced by his line in this episode: "I can't lose you again." And by the way he's clinging on to his new chess partner and little girl, he's obviously confusing her with his dead daughter as well. Which in turn seems to fuel his hate for Michonne all over again...
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I thought the Governor killed Martinez because he didn't want the leadership role. Didn't he constantly mutter " I don't want it" or something as he was holding Martinez down?
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For me it was "I don't want [to kill you all but i'm like totally psycho and bit worried you guys won't do what it takes to keep my surrogate family alive so gonna have to]. It wouldn't have had the same effect if he kept repeating that lol
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I watch with English subtitles (useful sometimes for back ground noises, muttered words, whispers, song texts and so on) and yes, he did mutter "I don't want it" several times.
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I enjoyed this episode. The way in which the Governor was so openly killing people without anyone noticing was laughable, and Tara needed to die as soon as we met her, but other than that, I found this outing with the Governor more entertaining than last weeks.

On the moment he snapped and killed Martinez, I think he just saw how uncertain Martinez was, not having any definitive plans or ideas. I think the Governor has the potential to follow, but only under someone he can trust with his life. Martinez showed weakness in his hesitanty , and basically the Governor wasn't going to have any of it, especially now that he's got Lilly and Meghan to think about. He only trusts himself enough to take care of himself and them because no one else is willing to do what he would to stay alive.
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I wish Gimple didn't have to backtrack and try and quickly scramble together everything that Season 3 built up, only to leave Phillip/Brian/Governor alive. It would have served the story perfectly to have him go out last season, when they had built up a solid foundation of Woodbury sheep that were angry at the prison group and ready to act.

Now he's forced to haphazardly build up that story to give the clash which everybody expected and the show was screaming for.

It is compelling that they've got the prison group at their absolute weakest moment, when everything safe has been compromised--walls are down, infection is running rampant, and everybody is just looking to slow down and rebuild.

All in all, it was okay, albeit awkward and sometimes nonsensical. It's definitely a set-up episode to get all the pieces where they need to be for better stuff to come.
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These two governor episodes are based on the novel(s) instead of the comic books. I have not read any printed versions of TWD, but I saw an interview with Kirkman about it, and evidently the prison attack with the tank is taken from the novel. I think it could have been done in one episode or in two episodes with half of each episode devoted to the prison group. Just my opinion.
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Yes, but it's all haphazard, the Govna doesn't know the prison folks are weak, he's just crazy and lucky.
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Indeed he is not aware of that! That's one aspect that ups the stakes and makes the impending conflict engaging and frightful.

My qualm is just that, with all the dancing of showrunners, they're building back up what should have already happened last season. Gimple is righting the ship, but being forced to sacrifice some time into setting up a new scenario for the Governor to storm the prison with an army.
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