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The Walking Dead S04E14: "The Grove"

Even though it should be obvious that TV.com episode reviews contain spoilers, I'll throw up a spoiler warning anyway because I'm going to get right to what happened in "The Grove." So here it is, there are spoilers ahead!


Ever since the first syllables of idiocy dribbled out of Lizzie's mouth in The Walking Dead's Season 4 premiere, I wanted her die, and said so at pretty much every opportunity since. From my review of "30 Days Without an Accident": "I can't wait for those kids who were naming zombies to die. It's going to be so great!." Well be careful what you wish for, Tim, because "The Grove" went to some really dark places to earn the title of most affecting—if not flat-out best—episode of the season. Oh who am I kidding, this WAS the best episode of the season, first and second halves of Season 4 included. Why? Because it made me feel queasy and hollowed out the joy from my soul like good television should.

I'm about as morally bankrupt as they come, and even I was like, "WHOA, The Walking Dead, you may have gone too far" when Carol told Lizzie to look at the flowers and then sprayed said flowers with her brains. Maybe it's because I've gone soft because I'm a new father myself, but I'm not okay with killing children! I'm with Whitney; I believe the children are our future and if we kill them all, our future will be pretty bleak. And there's a huge difference between a TV show killing a child by letting her get eaten by a zombie and a TV show killing a child by having another character shoot her in the head while she's in perfect physical health. That is pitch-black dark stuff, and something that should never be taken lightly. 


That being said, if there ever was a good time to kill a kid, that was it! Lizzie's mental illness or general stupidity—I think it's still up for debate what was really wrong with her—had reached a critical point of no return. That girl was so far gone that she knifed her sister Mika in the tummy just to prove her misconceived point that walkers are just like us or whatever hooey she was harboring in that peanut-sized brain of hers. Not only was Lizzie not fit for this world, but she was a threat to Judith's safety (especially since Tyreese and Carol left the kids alone with each other all the time) and everyone else she crossed paths with. Would YOU want to sleep under the same roof as Lizzie? If she had no problem killing her own sister, you'd better believe she would shank you as nonchalantly as she would brush her teeth. 

But she was still a child, and so we have to wonder whether Carol's decision to kill her was premature. I actually was initially offended that The Walking Dead would do this. Me! Offended! By a television show! That's pretty much unheard of. Could a stern talking-to have reprogrammed Lizzie to understand that zombies are bad? Would she have outgrown her fascination with undead playmates after she entered her boy-crazy phase? Was there any alternative action that Carol and Tyresse could've taken? Even though I'd wanted Lizzie to die a horrible death, in that instant I found myself trying to come up with ways to keep her alive, and in total shock when I heard the sound of her body hitting the ground. This is The Walking Dead at its strongest, when it's prompting its audience to ask difficult questions and providing even more difficult answers that viewers might not want. This show just got real again. 


"The Grove" also aired out some dirty laundry when Carol admitted to Tyreese that she'd killed Karen and David. That's not the kind of heavy dialogue anyone wants to hear when working on a jigsaw puzzle, but good on Carol for getting the truth out in the open. And it was the right time for her to do so. Earlier that day she'd killed a kid, so it would've been pretty rude of Tyreese to make Carol's day even worse. And from Carol's point of view, there are a couple ways of looking at her confession: Either she felt confident enough that her actions with Lizzie had proved to Tyreese that she's able to make tough decisions and follow through with them for the better of the group, therefore giving more credence to her decision to kill Karen and prevent an outbreak, or killing a kid really put Carol in the pits and she just didn't give a shit anymore. By sliding the gun over to Tyreese, she put her fate in his hands; it was her way of apologizing and putting the onus on Tyreese while believing that he knows the difference between killing someone who's a threat and someone who's trying to do the right thing. Carol continues to be The Walking Dead's best character by carrying the weight of doing the dirty jobs no one else wants to do. Gray areas all around! 

What I particularly appreciated about "The Grove" was the way it set everything up. I went into the episode knowing something bad was going to happen, and there were clues all over the place intimating that Mika was going to die or Lizzie was going to die. As it became clear that Mika didn't have the tools to become the type of survivor she needs to be in this world, I wondered if Carol was going to put her out of her misery. Her line about Mika reminding her of Sophia could've been interpreted a few different ways. Was Carol fond of Mika because se saw bits of Sophia in Mika, or did Carol already see Mika as already a goner and it was just a matter of time before she was creeping out of a barn as a zombie? And even as all signs pointed toward Lizzie needing to go, I never really believed it would happen until Carol pulled the trigger.


"The Grove" was another good example of how The Walking Dead is benefitting from slower stories and its new habit of focusing entire episodes on just a few characters. Beth and Daryl's character-centric episode told a heartwarming story about hope, and "The Grove" flipped the coin with a plot-heavy hour of doom and gloom (which had the neat side effect of also being very rich in character development). The Walking Dead needs both types of stories to be great, and they're only well-executed when an episode fully commits to them. Splitting up the group seemed like a terrible idea early on, but this middle-to-late portion of Season 4B is revealing that it's probably the best thing that could have happened to the show. Also, I will just throw it out there that the best episodes as of late haven't contained a single glimpse of Rick, Carl, and Michonne. (I do not miss them one bit.)

"The Grove" was a brutal episode of television that was as difficult to watch as anything in recent memory. And any episode that makes me squirm uncontrollably is doing something right. Yet the murder of a very uninfected Lizzie didn't feel like something the writers' included for shock value, it felt like a necessary story to remind us exactly what kind of world these people are living in. I loved "The Grove," and it easily makes the list of my top five episodes of The Walking Dead. What did YOU think?



NOTES

– Is there anything cuter than a .GIF of an adorable little girl shooting the top of a zombie's head off?

– And of course clumsy zombie goes into my zombie hall of fame. Silly zombie!


– Pretty sweet cold open with Lizzie playing tag with a walker. If that wasn't an indication of how F'd up this episode would be, I don't know what was.

– A second viewing of this episode revealed some more disturbing logic from Lizzie: When she saved Tyreese back at the prison, she was sad that she shot whatsherface in the head because she wanted her to come back as a walker. Yikes.

– I know I've said this before, but between Lizzie and Mika, why did Mika always get to carry the gun? It should've been stone-cold Lizzie, the dead-eye shot, handling all the firearms. Mika even admitted she couldn't shoot people. And when Lizzie wasn't holding a gun she was holding Judith, and we all know how smothery that can get. 

– Why did Carol and Tyreese leave the kids alone at every opportunity? Don't they know that kids smell extra tasty to zombies?

– Here's a deleted scene that I'm glad The Walking Dead didn't use: 


– Melissa McBride (Carol) continues to do amazing work now that she's getting great material. 

– Finally the great debate over who was feeding rats to zombies and who dissected a rat in the prison are settled, but admittedly, they're a little bit anticlimactic. And they also destroy this awesome theory that Bob was dissecting the rat because he was working on a cure.

– It's cool how all the split up survivor groups are seeing evidence of each other's existence. In "The Grove," it was Beth and Daryl's act of arson that Carol and others saw in the distance. However, it also makes you wonder how they haven't run into each other more, especially with so many gunshots.


– Burnt zombies are the best zombies! 


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 4/3/2016

Season 6 : Episode 16

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In the last scene, where was Judith? I did not see her as they were walking away from the Grove.
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The rat thing was a reference to the comics, and if you thought THAT was bad, they imply earlier in the show that she's torturing a family of cute little rabbits.
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this episode was pretty great. suspensful, shocing, dark, and moving all at once.
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*shocking
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" When she saved Tyreese back at the prison, she was sad that she shot whatsherface in the head because she wanted her to come back as a walker. Yikes." all i heard her say was that she didn't mean to shoot the woman in the head...
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The look on Daryl's face when they saw what Lizzie had done was like "You White people are cray-cray!". ROLFMAO
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Wow
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I'm a bit behind watching these, but ... it kind of feels like nobody actually bothered to, you know, talk to Lizzie about the walkers. While she was screaming about her dead "friend," I kept thinking "why doesn't somebody tell her what's going on? She clearly doesn't understand what the deal is."

All in all, that was seriously messed up, but well done show for daring to go there.
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Mika's holding the gun because Carol is trying to teach her. She's trying to teach both girls, each of whom have issues which interfere with their chances for survival. This episode was always about the survival of both girls. Carol knew Mika's sweetness would get her killed. But she didn't imagine it would be Lizzie who would seal Mika's fate.

After that, there's no time for anything but to put poor Lizzie down. She really is a rabid dog. And though, hypothetically, there's a chance this girl could recover and grow into an adult who can operate in the best interests of a group, there's no time for that. "She can't be around other people." There are no provisions in this world for mental illness - not even for little kids.

This episode gave us the most stark contrast between the pre and post-apocalyptic world.

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Carol told that Mika isn't tough coz she has no mean bone in her body. What? So you need to be mean to be tough? That Carol's obsession with teaching kids how to shoot and kill is a bit annoying and impausible. Kids can run that's it. Now it's just NRA dream come true - everyone incl little kids shoot GUNZZZZZZ. Yikes.
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Great episode. However I would have had it out Lizzie earlier if I were in Carol's position. Asked her what she thinks will happen if she "trusts" a walker? What does she think will happen if she becomes a walker? I would let her test her theory with the frail old lady. Let here become a walker and put her down when she had no memory of Lizzie.
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It could have been a great episode, but the girls just can't act. I know it's hard to find decent children actors, but because of this, I knew what I should be feeling, but I just wasn't feeling it.

Btw, Tim, regarding your question, "Why did Mika always get to carry the gun?", Carol was forcing Mika to grow up, to not be afraid, to shoot some zombies, to protect people, to protect herself, to be independent, to have a "mean bone".
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THIS is why I stick with TWD even through its less-than-great episodes. Because NO OTHER show is willing to go this far and pull it off. I have no other words but MIND-BLOWING and BRILLIANT.
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I know I'm way behind but I had a few episodes on dvr so I just watched the episode. I know no one is going to read this but I just had to respond. I want to know why it took so long to kill Lizzie? We all knew she was going to kill someone and then she goes and kills her sister. I was more upset about them waiting until she killed her sister to kill her. I never once felt bad about the killing of the child. Lizzie was a clear and present danger.
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did carol have judith when she and tyrese were leaving? I didn't see her and am wondering if they offed her too
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Great review! I loved the 'making flowers' picture!

Carol had to put Lizzie down, she was a safety risk to the rest of the group. You'd never know when she would turn on you!
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I didn't catch this last episode, I must have forgotten to watch. The show has been so-so since the beginning of season 4, when the new showrunner took over.

But there have been some good episodes. I thought the one where the Governer came back was as good as The Walking Dead used to be-truly interesting the whole way through. I wish they had taken longer with that plot line, but alas, they rush rush rush through and then waste our time on side plots of characters wandering the woods.

It sounds like this last episode was important, I'll have to find it and watch it.

Regarding the girls, I never felt comfortable at all with the way they were portrayed as a sort of psychopathic girl and her 'pathetic' sister. They should not be putting down a little girl for not being able to, for instance, kill her Dad when he's sick and about to die (turn). Not just the psycho girl, but Carol too would talk about being 'tough'.

These are not like real children. I never like the 'bad child' scenarios-it's generally the way historically that people viewed babies and children, as 'bad' and somehow dangerous. Beating and killing babies and children was part of the horrible treatment young ones endured, and the ideas about the 'bad seed' or how dangerous a child can be put things in such a backwards perspective.

There may be the occasional child who does something horrible, but if so they have been abused and traumatized. The true problem is an epidemic of child abuse, although current day treatment of children is like heaven compared to what it used to be.

That's why when we talk about whether an adult should have killed a child, I strongly react. What was it I read the other day, a Mother had killed her young children (and maybe a baby) because she thought they were demon possessed. That is the history of the world.

But at least now we do REACT and strongly to the idea of a child being killed. Back in Old Testament days things were so horrible (not only in Isreal, but I imagine in surrounding cultures as well), that there was child sacrifice, and people were encourgaed to beat children, and a parent could have a child stoned to death for 'lying'.

We've come a long long way.......

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Your take is absolutely right and moral in a world where resources and time are afforded.
They do not live in such a world. Time is certainly a luxury (as they are learning) and resources are basically trial by fire. They dont have the medicine or the proper care to help that mental illness the child has. They dont have time to get to the root of it because they dont have means of protecting everyone from her and her from herself. They live in a world where they are moving basically daily from one camp to another.

The sad truth is...she is a child and an innocent little girl but her mind was poisoned with delusion that would have gotten them all killed (and did start the epidemic and she physically killed her little sister with no remorse because she honestly believed it was the right thing to do). She needed help the world they live in does not have. She had to be put down to save lives.
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What's the background of that "deleted scene?"
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TWD continues to top one-of-the-best-tv-shows list. Every episode of this second half season is great and dramatic. This week was harder to watch, with Mika killed and lying dead there and Carol having to deal with Lizzie. Just want to underline that if TWD shows zombies or adults getting dealt with in so interesting and original ways, it deals with children without being shocking: they did not show Lizzie or Mika while they were being slaughtered. These two young actresses are very good and full of talent. The way Lizzie played the crazy one was hell of a performance. And Carol ? Well, what are we going to do when TWD is not around anymore.
I'm also a fan of burnt zombies. they are way cooler and regarding your question, there is nothing cuter than an adorable little girl shooting the top of a zombie's head off ;-)
Finally, kids in this world need to be left alone, otherwise there is no interest to have kids in this serie.
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Just saw this episode tonight. Thanks for not revealing spoilers!

It's probably the most memorable, yet depressing episode to date.

My only little gripe might be that Carol did not mention Rick figured out she killed the two others and bannished her for it. Otherwise a great episode.
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Then again, Carol still carry Rick's baby around through the entire episde so that's good enough for me.

The heart of episode was between Carol & Tyreese, and them & the girls. The tragedy how close they got to find a home and that it wasn't walkers the ones that destroyed it.
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That was pinnacle TV. Thank God the Governor gone.
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I was sad for Mika character, she was too gentle for the world of the Walking Dead. I kinda softened on Lizzie a few days after the show because I realize that she was broken and too hard to fix in the same world where no medical establishment could provide therapy/facility. For the setup, it seemed a proper situation for Tyrese to forgive Carol, having gone through what they just did. For all the signs that they had, I'd say never leave the probably mentally unhinged alone, especially with or if they are children. As for the darkness of the show, this isn't Zombieland ( a comedic horror), this is a bleak world, a somewhat hopeless one, and if the show runs half as long as the life of the books, get use to lost, terrible and ugly lost, and be thankful that the show isn't on NBC or another non cable network beholding to sanitizing, hiding or surgically remove all but the tamest of offense. This episode is up there with my highest rated WD episodes, even with a few dialog / writing flaws IMO.
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Carol killing lizzie was kinda like the comic... In the comic there are twin boys and one of them kills the other after killing some rabbits because he knew his brother would come back, but in the comic none of the adults knows what to do so 8 year old Carl sneaks up at night and shoots him in the head....
So stop complaining about the show going too far, the comic is way more gruesome
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Grizelda Gunderson: best. doll. name. ever!
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I had a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach ever since the cold open (which by the way I think is one TWD's best ever openings) but ever in my wildest dream did I expect THAT episode to happen.

yes it was harsh Tim but the zombie apocalypse is no place for a psychopath. (The whole animal torture thing, lack of empathy with humans, and lack of understanding the difference between right and wrong leaves no doubt in my mind what Lizzie's problem was) Pre-apocalypse we could afford to be patient try and cure her find her a good therapist or institutionalise her when all else fails but post-apocalypse humans have enough stuff to worry about - zombies, disease, hunger without babysitting sociopaths. What else could they do? Sleep with one eye open? How would they realistically keep her isolated fro others or away from weapons?
It was truly uncomfortable to watch Someone who embodied all the best traits and morals of our current society and Finding myself willing her to 'ditch her morals' and be more ruthless. WTF are you doing to me TWD? It was also uncomfortable to watch Carol become judge, jury and executioner and kill a child she had sworn to protect. The tired look in her eyes leads to me think that she just wanted it all to end. I think her telling Tyrese was a deliberate suicide attempt. I am glad that Tyrese matured enough to forgive her. I guess what happened the kids taught him that sometimes hard decisions need to be made. After what happened with Lizzie and Mika there was no punishment he inflict that would have been worse. I am really surprised that he didn't figure it out on his own after watching her kill Lizzie.
Yes lovely touch to see how members of the group unknowingly interact with each other. Some great parallels and contrasts too. One sister is too sweet to survive the other too messed to live. Carol going from losing her daughter to killing her surrogate daughter, Tyrese from being the victim of a hard choice to being complicit in making a similar hard choice. The writers are on fire! Anyway I have got to watch done episodes of HIMYM so I can feel human and normal again! :-)
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I must say I really hated Lizie, but man she can act !! I'm not hoping for a happy ending, but at least I would really like watching some of the guys reunite. Where is Beth ???
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I felt for Lizzie. I struggled not to sob when Carol told her she loved her. She did. Lizzie was a mix of potential and mental illness. She was wrong about the zombies, but I couldn't help but appreciate her beliefs. Not unlike Hershel's initial feelings about zombies, was it? He thought they could find a cure. Obviously, Lizzie took it further. She didn't see a cure. But she did begin to think maybe the zombies were the ones with the rightful place on Earth.

Chilling. It would not have been nearly as horrific to watch if it hadn't involved children.
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Walking Dead at its most brutal. This is how the show should be written.
Grimm and Unflinching! Grade for the episode= A-
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– Is there anything cuter than a .GIF of an adorable little girl shooting the top of a zombie's head off?

I think it is pretty amazing for such a little girl who doesn't like killing to be able to shoot a zombie in the head from that distance. It would have been more realistic if you saw her bullets hit the ground around the zombie and then one of the grown ups shot the zombie in the head just before it came too close.
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"The Grove" was excellent. Lizzie was 6 sides from crazy. The sad thing is if the world was as it was she could have received treatment and perhaps been rehabilitated. But, you know what they say about children who mutilate animals. :(, So again Carol had to be the Hard Ass and do what had to be done. Just like in the prison with Karen and David. She will do the dirtiest of jobs for the greater good of everyone and that shows true leadership. Girlfriend has come a long way from the shell of a woman she was in the beginning. and the thought that they could stay there is just their way of thinking " we can have normal here" but straight up.....normal is as dead as Lizzies hopes of a 16th birthday.
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I enjoyed this episode and all the grey area pondering. I thought Lizzie was bat shit cray from the prison and it seems things escalated. I was worried that Carol had been written out when Rick sent her away, I'm so glad she's back.

Michonne isn't the only kickass female in this show, Carol does her thing quietly and I love her for it. Remember her from season one with the bullying husband? She has had the best character development of the show.

I started this episode hoping they kids would be zombie food and was not ready for the events that unfolded. After cray cray Lizzie killed her sister, I wanted to throw her to the walkers myself.

I'm glad that Carol owned up to killing David and Karen at least I don't have to worry about that bit of information slipping at a stupid moment. Well done Tyreese for seeing the bigger picture.
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Wow that was a dark and powerful episode!!! didn't expect Lizzie to go that far! Poor Mika :(
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I stopped watching The Walking Dead a while ago. Not because I hated the show but because I actually grew paranoid from watching it and had odd dreams about it. But hearing everyone talk about this episode I had to watch it for myself.
I loved every minute of it! It was a powerful but tragic episode. Good for The Walking Dead to have the balls to do what no other tv show will do. I may just start watching the show again after seeing "The Grove".
...In case anyone is interested (which I doubt), I did have a dream after watching this episode... It started off with Carol running to save Lizzie from the walker however Carol fell and was about to be devoured when she was saved by gun wielding nerds in Power Rangers costumes... Yeah I wish I didn't make this sh*t up... -.-
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I am seriously SO TIRED and PISSED OFF seeing so many reviews and comments about "The Grove' saying it went "Too far" or "F---ed up" or anything a long those lines.

YOU ALL ARE WHAT IS KEEPING THIS SHOW AND OTHER SHOWS FROM DOING ANYTHING MORE SERIOUS OR "TABOO" OR "TOO FAR"!

Seriously, all of you complaining about stuff like this, or saying it's too much or it's crazy .. you all keep any tv shows from progressing and showing REAL situations and events. I want to see intense things like this in shows like The Walking Dead because they would happen in real life,but due to viewers being to "prude" to situations like this, they complain and make it into a big deal so that tv shows and producers DO NOT film this stuff. due to the backlash and stir you cause.

I hate all of you that say this is too intense or real for them. Just don't want or shut the hell up if you do watch.
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KarmaMusic42, I agree with you.

Tim, what the hell, man?

"a huge difference between a TV show killing a child by letting her get eaten by a zombie and a TV show killing a child by having another character shoot her in the head while she's in perfect physical health. That is pitch-black dark stuff, and something that should never be taken lightly."
"That being said, if there ever was a good time to kill a kid, that was it! Lizzie's mental illness or general stupidity—I think it's still up for debate what was really wrong with her"
"But she was still a child, and so we have to wonder whether Carol's decision to kill her was premature [...] Was there any alternative action that Carol and Tyresse could've taken? Even though I'd wanted Lizzie to die a horrible death, in that instant I found myself trying to come up with ways to keep her alive, "
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These three chunks of quote right here were driving me CRAZY in this article and I love reading the articles here. Debate is allowed and welcomed and, in these words, created, but where is there any room for this in anyone's head??

My entire life of watching zombie movies, getting eaten by zombies is NEVER BETTER THAN BEING SHOT. I know you're thinking that shooting a kid could happen in the real world today, zombies = not real. But if we're indulging a TV show, dying by zombie is the most horrifying thing that could happen to you. You keep running, shoot me in the head. If Lizzie was heard screaming, having her arms and legs eaten off, that would've been LESS DARK than a shot off in the distance? But that's nitpicking. And that was my point on this one! YOU'RE NITPICKING THE DEATH OF A CHILD ON A ZOMBIE SHOW LIKE IT WAS SOMETHING TO PROTEST! And you don't shoot the sister-stabbing sociopath who dips her fingers into zombies mouths, plays tag with them, and invites them into your fortress with rat meat? I hear there's a mental institution down the road from the prison. Once her ECT is done, you can move on.

I finally thought you had come to your senses in the first sentence of the second quote, contradicting everything you had said up to that point. But one sentence later, "her mental illness or general stupidity"?? You just had a baby, you're not offended by television, but here you are having serious reservations and you "think it's still up for debate what was really wrong with her -- mental illness or general stupidity"? That's a real winner of a line. Not out of my own offense. Let's just say it's still up for debate what's really wrong with you.

Annnnd we come full circle. After all that, we end back where we started. You want Lizzie to die. From Day 1, you want her torn apart. Crazy or stupid, who knows?? SHE HAS TO DIE! BUTTTT, they HAD to try other methods, right? Like... This was not a "won't someone think of the children" moment! Like you'd said, you want to be under the same roof with Lizzie? She stabbed her sister to have a playmate because her sister was, what, annoying? Zombies don't talk back? She hadn't even learned from the adults that killing humans was acceptable. I guess zombies are the same, though, in her eyes. So with that logic, you basically scream at her until she swears not to ever do it again. You kill her zombie sister AND you keep her tied up all the time where she constantly can't run or fight. What's your alternative method for curing intentional stabbing or baby suffocating in the woods?
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I'm nowhere near as pissed off about it as you are, but I agree with your ultimate point behind all the anger.

It's hard to have sympathy for people who regularly watch a show as dark as this one & draw a line in the sand when it goes past their personal tolerance threshold.

It's like playing with matches. Play with 'em long enough & you're eventually gonna get burned. If getting burned isn't something you're willing to tolerate, don't run the risk by choosing to play with matches.

Mika's murder & Lizzie's execution was some really disturbing stuff but it made for some really excellent television.
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This was a brilliant, delightful and quirky episode! From Lizzie's misplaced empathy and compassion for the walker's right through to Carol's redemption from Tyreese's forgiveness. Bit worried about that fire though, I definitely want to know what's up with that as the group of walkers were clearly smoking from being burned.
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I loved the idea that a sociopath/psychopath who can't feel empathy with humans would feel empathy for walkers. Nicely done writers. Nicely done.
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Actually, that fire and the walker near the train rail its the kind of things that constantly remind me Carol and Daryl are only a few trees away.

...which is beautiful and heartbreaking in its own way.
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Took me a while to finally get around to watching the episode, but oh, man! It was just so tragically beautiful, that shit made me cry. Lizzie was a dander to herself & others, so yeah, that walker feedin' bunny killin' sister snuffin' untrustworthy psycho had to dealt with...but still. It was really hard to watch.

This episode now officially takes its place in my top three favorites, alongside "Clear" & "Days Gone Bye"
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I'd say I respect and admire Carol because she was willing to stay behind and make sure Lizzie wouldn't hurt any other people.

Tyreese convinced her to go on with them and she did what she had to so Lizzie wouldn't change into a walker or something worse in the eyes of men.

In the end, Carol's teachings helped Mika save Judith & her sister, but the same lessons helped her sister kill Mika and, potentially, harm Judith.

The point remains: children don't make it on their own in this world. Sometimes they don't make it, even with adults.
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In the comic books they got around this by having Carl kill the kid. Billy killed Ben (or Ben killed Billy, whatever they were twins), and Abraham suggested they took the kid out but none of the adults could do it. Later that night, Carl snuck into the kids tent and shot him.

Major props to the show for having an adult kill the kid, even if they did pussy out from killing Judith at the prison.
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First I love Carol this season...she is one tough cookie...
But this episode shocked me...i knew she had became this hard person, but killing Lizzie, was jsut not right..
I mean ok, Lizzie was really going nuts. Playing catch with the zombie or feeding them mices...naming them..come on...even MIka was smarter then that, she had a gentle thing about her, but when things needed to be done, she did it....
If Tyreese ever finds out that Carol was the one who shot Karen and with the what he has seen her do to Lizzie, she will kill her in a very nasty way....
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i guess you didnt watch the whole episode. as tyrese does know carol killed karen and the other dude.
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She told him in the end
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Really???? Did i miss that...?? Maybe mine brains were still processing Lizzie...will get check it immediately before i check the new episdoe...Thanks guys for informing me...!!!
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Contrary to what the vibe of these comments are I tend to disagree. Mainly with the love for Carol. I find her to be really annoying and a bit of me hoped she would tell Tyresse to take the baby and she stay in the house with Lizzie so i wouldnt have to see her again. I was also surprised that Tyresse agreed with the course of action. Additionally take into account Carol trained Lizzie TO KILL, even gave her the knife so shes accountable.

If the baby starts crying and people are in danger is carol gonna waste it. Its obvious that in society (which i know technically in a zompocolypse can become corrupt) killing a kid with a disability or mental health issue would be met with outrage. It seems that in this episode the rules have changed and now i hope the group never encounter an autistic child.

Mika was ok shooting Zombies, the issue about her not being able to protect herself was a farce. Her difference was between right and wrong of killing people and a young girl with those values is expected, or Lizzie will inevitably be the alternative.

Quick side not if Carol ever meets Daryll and they ''get together'' it will be sickening.
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I don't think Carol would 'ware the baby' as they must have been in that situation again since Carol joined them and Judith is still alive. I also don't think that kill someone who was autistic or disabled. You could argue that Hershall was disabled and a risk but they kept him around. I think the situation with Lizzie was different because she posed a direct physical threat to them, and they are trying to survive. What is the point in their struggling to dodge walkers if they are going to let a sociopath kill them in their sleep?
I think the issue with Mika not being able to protect herself is because it's not enough to be able to kill zombies - they are not the only threat. You have to be able to kill people too. One if the things that naked this show (for me) difficult to watch is seeing society's values inverted. Which is why I love this show! :-)
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Phone was dying so I had to post the rest of my response in this additional reply.
I also hope that Daryl and Carol don't become romantically involved. I like their relationship the way it is.
as to your other point about Mika and Lizzie - I don't think they are an 'either or' choice but more two sides of a coin. Beth is proof that you can be sweet and tough. I m sure she would kills human if she has to.
i like it when TWD shows how our morals wouldn't necessarily hold up in 'the natural world' when we are no longer the top of the food chain and society has collapsed. It kinda makes you appreciate that we currently have the luxury of morals.
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*SPOILER ALERT If you plan to read the comic book* I just found out in the comic book that Carol and Tyreese were off doing something else, and that the two little girls were actually twin boys, and it was Carl that took out the insane twin after he killed his brother. To this review, I'm still gonna come out and say.. I still believe that Carl killed Karen and David, and Carol is still protecting him. Because it is too convenient for the writers to change a persons character(Carol) to "advance the plot", and we the audience are to stupid to think,.. that she would quietly kill two sick people in their sleep and burn their bodies. Anyone that's been watching TWD since the beginning knows that Carol wouldn't do something like that! Protecting Carl, yes she would do that! She was right there when she witnessed the anger in Tyreese's face as him and Rick were fighting over the incident. So yes, I still believe she is protecting Carl. Remember, Carl didn't have much of a problem killing his mother before she became a zombie and dragging her body off, never to be found.

Now Carol killing Lizzie I understand.. I mean what could have been done with her had Carol not had? Lizzie was crazed and a lost cause. She went too far and it was time for her to join her sister!
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The writers didn't kept to the complete storyline of the comics...a lot of people should have been dead already, but they survived....so we have clearly seen that Lizzie killed MIka and that Carol killed Lizzie....Carol losing her daughter has changed her in a very icy way...she is not that nice lady from the first season anymore...
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Is it just me? Or was anyone else thinkin..."Lock her in a room with her sister's corpse, when her sister come back as a zombie and see what she does then!" and then..."LET HER EAT HER BRIANS OUT!"
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Come over here spy. Now, just look at the flowers....
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LOL..........BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINS!
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Here is my thing about all this "going too far". They didn't...they ran right up to the edge and stopped. Now if they had shown Mika with a gaping hole in her and actually shown Lizzie taking the head shot..then they would have went maybe too far. They could have even did the Lizzie head shot if it was shown from afar from Tyreese's perspective.
But no...as with many cases, they took it all to the edge and stopped without falling over.
One question I haven't seen asked much is, would Lizzie still have been psychopathic if the Zombie Apocalypse never happened?
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"One question I haven't seen asked much is, would Lizzie still have been psychopathic if the Zombie Apocalypse never happened?"

Yes. During the scene where Carol & Tyreese were sitting at the table talking after Mika's murder, It was addressed. I can't remember the quote verbatim, but I do remember something being said along the lines of "Lizzie was like this all along" It seemed Carol was feeling a bit guilty when she mentioned that she didn't see it sooner.

If not for the end of the world, Lizzie would probably have been properly diagnosed by the pros at some point & her condition managed
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if you've seen any of the behind the scenes stuff... like with sofia they can't show children being killed. it has to be done a certain way and usually off camera
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I remember the Sophia situation. Even as a Walker, having Rick shoot her the way he did was one of those "whoa!" moments.
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Btw, Tim, I was more horrified by that TWD/True Detective graphic than anything in the episode! Just ew!

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Everything happens the way they're supposed to. Yes, Carol saw that Lizzie was a weird kid but Carol isn't a psychologist, she couldn't have known the extent of her mental instability. That night when Lizzie said "I know what to do now". I think Carol thought that she finally understood. She could not have known what would happen. I'm a mom but I have to say that I couldn't muster up any sympathy for Lizzie. She was just too far gone. She was as dangerous as a zombie (or even moreso because she walked among them) so I kind of saw it as a necessary thing. No, they couldn't just leave her behind because what if other groups of people found her and took her in? She would then endanger those people. Leave her to "play" with a group of zombies and let them rip her apart? That would have been less humane. I think Carol had no choice. Like Mika said, everything happened the way they're supposed to.
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The Grove packed an emotional wallop. Early in the episode I was thinking that the Walking Dead has the best casting of any show since LOST. Carol and the rest of the cast are just SO GOOD.
At the end I was thinking that the Walking Dead was the most emotionally invested show since The Killing. Carol's emotions were on full display.
This series just keeps getting better. We, the viewers, are very lucky.

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Nothing beats the episode Ozymandias by Breaking Bad, though
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I think "The Red Wedding" from the Game of Thrones is still the best episode of any show to date.
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im a fan of this season despite what i hear others say about it. putting the characters in new environments interests me. the episode itself was brutally wicked. but also nicely done. we didnt actually see lizzie "kill" mika. no one wants to see a kid all knifed up. and same with lizzie being shot. lovely handled episode with a bit of sewing up of loose ends and also cutting off of some extras that had got various points over within the show.
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This was great, great episode! I'm a huge fan of the characters who, recognizing that they are now living in an apocalyptic, zombie-plagued world, don't hesitate to do what needs to be done (Shane, Carol, Michonne, Darryl). I accept that there are moral and questionable issues with some of the decisions made by Carol and Shane (especially Shane), but, if I'm trying to survive one day at a time in Zombieland, I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.

Or worst, end up as the main course at a zombie all-you-can-eat brunch.

But, that's just me....
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'Rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.' - GREAT one liner. Love it!
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Anyone who has read the comic books probably predicted that Lizzie was going to kill Mika (they just changed a couple boys to girls, Ben/Billy = Lizzie/Mika).
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Yep the "I didn't hurt her brains", is a direct quote from the comic.
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Yea that's what I got from it. I knew that Carl wouldn't be the one to kill her tho.
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Carols decision to kill Lizzie wasn't premature, it was spot on. Neither of them have the expertise in psychology to convert a psychopath into a normal human being.
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This allowed me to regain my respect for the show...the most f'd up thing was not that they killed Lizzie, it's that they didn't do it earlier. Personally I hate Carl but that's cos kids make for pretty poor actors and it kind of breaks the believability of an apocalypse scenario! I'm not a kid-hater, maybe just an asshole :P
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This is what I want from this show, hard decisions and shocking moments. Lizzie had to go. Ya it's awful that she's a kid but in the confines of their world what else could they do with her. This episode has restored my faith in the show again, for a little while at least.
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