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2x13 Better Angels

  • Avatar of RolnRokk

    RolnRokk

    [21]Mar 12, 2012
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    I'm pretty sure Rick has known about everyone in the group having the dormant virus since Dr. Jenner whispered to Rick. Remember thatthe doc did bloodwork on everyone so he knew. I'm not sure everyone in the world is necessarillyinfected.For example there were dead people in cars on the highway that were not walkers. But maybe the collision caused a trauma to their head and that is why they did not reanimate.I think that maybe anyone who comes in close contact with a walker gets the dormant virus. Maybe airborne, maybe from contact. I think there is only one virus. If it gets into your bloodstream you get the fever and die then become a walker. If it stays out of your blood but you die from another cause, you still become a walker.

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  • Avatar of OdumC

    OdumC

    [22]Mar 12, 2012
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    danharr wrote:

    Okay so why all the surprise that any dead person can become a zombie. It's called reanimation and it's always been a part of zombie myths don't people know anything more than whats in front of them?

    I think the problem is every zombie story tries to re-invent the genre..

    As for the disease, I'd assume like any other, it mutated as it went. Originally I'd imagine as whatever was introduced, people just started getting sick, going to the hospitals in droves and dying. then reanimating.. then the virus went into an aggressive phase with aggressive agents spreading the infection, and now as the flashpoint of initial outbreak dies down, it mutates again and as the world is pretty much saturated with "Ingredient X" that turns people into zombies, as people die naturally, they'll turn.

    OR it was like this all along and we just didn't see as many "natural deaths" occurring so it was never pointed out as clear as it is now.
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  • Avatar of MeAgentOfChaos

    MeAgentOfChaos

    [23]Mar 12, 2012
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    Carl...

    as Morgan Freeman would say in 'Wanted'

    Shoot THIS muthaF#$%A!

    :-)
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  • Avatar of LordGrievous

    LordGrievous

    [24]Mar 12, 2012
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    OdumC wrote:
    They've been showing that for awhile, the guy who hung himself in the forest, walkers came along and ate his legs but he hung himself, that's pretty instant so he was dead when they snacked on his legs.. the 2 cops weren't bit from a couple episodes ago, Hell even the soldier zombie locked in the tank in the first episode looked ok, just dead. Plus you figure at some point that first corpse sat up without being bit.


    The guy who hung himself could've still been turned walker from the walkers munching on his dead body, one of the cops supposinglyhad a bitemark on their ear, and there was no evidense that the soldier zombie had not been bitten.


    I don't think everyone is infected since there was alot of dead people in the cars who didn't turn zombie and there was no gunshot to their heads, I'm hoping they do that just just to increase the mystery of the virus.

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    n3IVI0

    [25]Mar 12, 2012
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    This was well established in the comic. They don't actually discover it 'til later, when they move into the prison. Shane died much earlier, but the scenario was the same. He lures Rick off alone (hunting for deer in this case), and has him at gunpoint when Carl shoots him. It's a turning point in Carl's development. Rick buries Shane in a shallow grave, but after they learn about the whole "everybody's infected" thing, he returns to the site, digs him up, and shoots him in the head. I thought Shane's death was too abrupt in the comic. This way makes much more sense.

    Some people suffer crisis, and it brings out all the best aspects of their character. Ordinary people then do some pretty heroic things. Others have lived their whole life with a psyche that appears normal, save for a hairline fracture no one notices, not even themselves. Then, when the crisis comes, the pressure causes them to crack under the strain, and they go all Road Warrior. Shane is one of those people. The writers took their time about it, so when it happened, you can plainly see the tragic necessity of this. Had he not been stopped, he would have killed Rick, and anyone else who displeased him, and led the group to do some terrible things. Now they have a chance. I like that the redneck character, the one guy you would have expected to become the villain, manages to come to terms with himself. They didn't resort to stereotype for once. Now Mel, that's a shoe that is going to drop. I expect he's probably living in the town the Governor started.
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  • Avatar of OdumC

    OdumC

    [26]Mar 12, 2012
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    But a dead body with no circulation wouldn't have infected the guy to turn if they ate him AFTER he died.
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  • Avatar of n3IVI0

    n3IVI0

    [27]Mar 12, 2012
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    That's why this way "Everyone's infected, but it remains dormant 'til you die, then re-animates the corpse" makes more sense. As Kirkman explains it, the zombie's bite is toxic, and will kill you, but it does not zombify you. The virus you are already carrying does that. It also explains how the virus spread so quickly, and overcame the civil authorities. If you only get zombified from bites, and the corpses don't just re-animate (Like in Night of the Living Dead), then there would not be enough zombies to take down the military. But if it's airborne, and everyone is infected, becoming carriers, who then re-animate after physical death, and kill more people, who become zombies because they have the virus, then the zombies would reproduce exponentially.
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  • Avatar of Mitoch

    Mitoch

    [28]Mar 12, 2012
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    You know, no one has mentioned that Lori pretty much was the catalyst for the showdown between Rick and Shane. What the hell was she doing talking to Shane about how she doesn't know who is the baby's father? What did she think Shane was going to do? Quietly accept the baby is Rick's? And of course, Shane took the bait, sending him further over the edge.


    And by the way, stop telling Carl Dale's death wasn't his fault. Yes it was. Albeit indirectly.

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  • Avatar of oz_island

    oz_island

    [29]Mar 12, 2012
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    Mitoch wrote:

    You know, no one has mentioned that Lori pretty much was the catalyst for the showdown between Rick and Shane. What the hell was she doing talking to Shane about how she doesn't know who is the baby's father? What did she think Shane was going to do? Quietly accept the baby is Rick's? And of course, Shane took the bait, sending him further over the edge.


    And by the way, stop telling Carl Dale's death wasn't his fault. Yes it was. Albeit indirectly.



    Yeah...I couldn't tell if she was being sincere or manipulative. I only say that because of the speech she gave Rick a couple of episodes ago where she told him that Shane thinks that she and Carl are his. She seemed pretty set in having a face off between the two of them.
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  • Avatar of OdumC

    OdumC

    [30]Mar 12, 2012
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    Well not to defend Ol' Hobag, but would it be better to have NOT told Rick Shane was losing his mind like he was? Rick might have not been as ready as he was if Lori left him in the dark about Shane.

    And she did seem sincere talking to Shane, it just seems like Lori has conversations like she drives. jobs not done til somethings wrecked.
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  • Avatar of anthem47

    anthem47

    [31]Mar 12, 2012
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    I've been wondering how much of a bloodbath the next episode will be (these are comments from someone who hasn't read the comics). So by my count there's 13 people left in the group, yes? Rick, Lori and Carl, Glenn, Andrea and T-Dog, Daryl and Carol, Herschel, Maggie...and the other three quasi-extras, Jimmy, Beth and Otis's wife.


    The last three are pretty much redshirts destined to die, I can't imagine the writers dragging them around in Season 3. 100% dead.


    Maggie I would peg to live; while killing her off would be a good way to torture Glenn some more, I think the two of them are more interesting as a couple. 10% dead.


    Herschel is on my most likely dead list. He's a great character and having a doctor around is handy, but him giving Maggie and Glenn his seal of approval doesn't bode well for his future. 75% dead.


    Not so sure about Carol. Not long ago, I wouldn't have said she added much to the show but she has become a bit interesting and I like the actress that plays her. With Sophia gone I'm not sure where they'd take her next, but it does seem to involve Daryl so they're either setting up something there long term, or setting up a friendship so she can die and Daryl can be more angsty. 50% dead.


    T-Dog is in the same boat...even two episodes ago I would have said he was ready to bite the dust, but he gota lot more screentime this episode. I think if they wrote him better he's good to keep around, other than Glen he's the only other one with a bit of a city-boy mentality, but with more humour than Glen has. They should groom him to be the dark humourist, the deadpan snarker. Hopefully as the crowd gets thinner he gets more time to shine. Or maybe not, maybe his increased screentime was more "sorry we didn't give you many plotlines, here have some lines before we let you go". 50% dead.


    Rick, Lori, Carl, Glenn, Andrea, Daryl. I think they're the core six, I'd be surprised if any of them died.


    By the way, that means when Dale and Shane were alive, and assuming they were feeding Randall at least a little, there were 16 people at that farm. That's a lot of food per day!

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [32]Mar 12, 2012
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    danharr wrote:


    Okay so why all the surprise that any dead person can become a zombie. It's called reanimation and it's always been a part of zombie myths don't people know anything more than whats in front of them?


    Well not every dead person. Dale should not come back as he was shot in the head. I am thinking all of those that have died except those who were shot in the head.


    Of course not people shot in the head another part of zombie canon once the brain is damaged no reanimation. When I said any it was in the context of anyone who wasn't bitten or scratched by a zombie or died without brain injury. I don't understand why people need the story to explain this to them especially after ten years of resident evil.

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  • Avatar of antdude

    antdude

    [33]Mar 13, 2012
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    Slow episode, but decent. Nice ending. Season finale should be good!
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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [34]Mar 13, 2012
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    danharr wrote:

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    danharr wrote:


    Okay so why all the surprise that any dead person can become a zombie. It's called reanimation and it's always been a part of zombie myths don't people know anything more than whats in front of them?


    Well not every dead person. Dale should not come back as he was shot in the head. I am thinking all of those that have died except those who were shot in the head.


    Of course not people shot in the head another part of zombie canon once the brain is damaged no reanimation. When I said any it was in the context of anyone who wasn't bitten or scratched by a zombie or died without brain injury. I don't understand why people need the story to explain this to them especially after ten years of resident evil.



    People need this explained to them as not all zombie shows follow the same lore/science. For that matter, not all horror/monster shows follow the same lore/science. Such as in this show, you don't have to be bitten or scratched to come back as a zombie once you die. In most zombie shows you have to be bitten or even (scratched)or cut in order to be infected. Also, it has not been made clear yet in TWD, all the ways someone can be infected.

    I think it is not so much an explanation that people need but more of a confirmation about what lore/science is being implemented and the details surrounding what is being used in TWD.
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  • Avatar of ionee24

    ionee24

    [35]Mar 13, 2012
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    iturnrocks wrote:
    So what now everybody that dies turns into a zombie even if they weren't bitten? When did that start?

    To be honest, I've always thought as much since the very beginning because those first zombies who started bitting everybody else on earth weren't bitten temselves.

    It was such a moustrous notion to entertain until Shane died.
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  • Avatar of WCSU1987

    WCSU1987

    [36]Mar 13, 2012
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    May be reading to much into this epsidoe. In the end of the mid season finale they began forshadow Carl reaching this point through out the season. Second thing in the second or last episode of season one I thought they mention that some are carriers of the virus. That Shane was one of the carriers so when he goes he turned into the zombie. Anyways I say they should just light the field on fire problem solved.

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  • Avatar of MrShotShot

    MrShotShot

    [37]Mar 13, 2012
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    n3IVI0 wrote:
    That's why this way "Everyone's infected, but it remains dormant 'til you die, then re-animates the corpse" makes more sense. As Kirkman explains it, the zombie's bite is toxic, and will kill you, but it does not zombify you. The virus you are already carrying does that. It also explains how the virus spread so quickly, and overcame the civil authorities. If you only get zombified from bites, and the corpses don't just re-animate (Like in Night of the Living Dead), then there would not be enough zombies to take down the military. But if it's airborne, and everyone is infected, becoming carriers, who then re-animate after physical death, and kill more people, who become zombies because they have the virus, then the zombies would reproduce exponentially.



    Thinking along those lines, the soldiers shooting the hospital staff in the Shane flashbacks makes more sense. Also the notion of them being in ChemWarfare gear makes sense as well.


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    ionee24

    [38]Mar 13, 2012
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    I agree, it must have come to a point where the only way to contain the increasing number of zombies was to kill the living. It didn'tt matter if those were doctors or sick people, nurses or visitors: if you were inside a Hospital, you were as good as dead.

    Edited on 03/13/2012 2:43pm
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  • Avatar of RolnRokk

    RolnRokk

    [39]Mar 13, 2012
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    Regarding who dies in Episode 13: If you go the to AMC website they have two sneak peek photos from the finale. One shows Daryl on his motorcycle with Carol, and the other has the three Grimes and T-Dog walking along a road, with a barely visible fifth person who looks like Hershel. They are in daylight, so they obviously survived the zombie horde at the farm. And I can't imagine that Glenn, Maggie or Andrea would be killed off.


    I agree that Beth, Patricia and Jimmy will surely die at the farmhouse. But that may be all. After killing off two main characters in as many episodes, I think the writers have invested too much development in the other characters to let them die.

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  • Avatar of oz_island

    oz_island

    [40]Mar 13, 2012
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    Jenner specifically told Rick that no one was affected when Rick was drunk...that was in the season 1 finale, so no it wasn't mentioned that anyone was carrying the virus outloud. Remember Jenner required everyone to submit to a blood test. I guess he didn't specifically say no one was affected. He said something like all clear when Rick asked him about it.

    We're supposed to find out what Jenner whisphered to Rick before they left the CDC in the season 2 finale.
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