The Wire Forums

HBO (ended 2008)

Official Discussion Thread - "-30-" (S05E10) (Spoilers)

  • Avatar of domino87

    domino87

    [21]Mar 5, 2008
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    I just about puked when I saw Templeton getting the Pulitzer, that was just too much.

    I laughed when Cheese got "Omarred".

    Vinson: ..but you're just a boy.

    Michael: (BAM!) That's just your knee.

    I laughed at that too, theres something wrong with me. Direct parallel of Omar's first scene when he shoots a youngin in the knee.

    Also did anyone notice that near the end of the episode when Kima catches a murder, its on the sidewalk of the parking lot where Gant was killed in the first episode of S1? And then Bunk: there you go, giving a fck when its not your turn to give a fck. "...when it's not your turn" was the first epigraph of the series.

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  • Avatar of nicmar19422

    nicmar19422

    [22]Mar 5, 2008
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    I loved the call back there have been a lot of them this year now all I need is another "you happy now Bitc*" speaking of which I have entered a drawing to see the last episode in Philly at city hall and have a chance to meet the Bunk himself the show will be screened at 8 with a q&a after whish me luck
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  • Avatar of Joolz101

    Joolz101

    [23]Mar 7, 2008
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    I believe that the end has arrived. Just finished, watching the best series that has hit the box for a long time.

    I'll miss my friends that I've made Bubbles, Omar, Mc Nulty , Buck and Co one and all played a part in this Great series only wish there was a 6th season. I know not all will agree and that's your entitlement however the last episode finished well and made all complete.

    I know you wanted justice for some and happiness for others however life is just not that easy.

    In my opinion this is like the world over people get what sometimes they do not deserve and others who are deserving get a kick in the teeth but in the end life goes on and you make the most of what you got.

    Thanks to all who made and stared in this truly memorable series I will miss it.

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  • Avatar of SVU17

    SVU17

    [24]Mar 8, 2008
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    I liked this episode too, probably for the exact opposite reasoning that everyone HATED the series finale for the Sopranos. David Simon provided closure on every story line. I also liked it because the entire series came full circle. There only one problem left: What in the world am I going to watch now? First Oz, then Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, and now The Wire. R.I.P.
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  • Avatar of pyju

    pyju

    [25]Mar 8, 2008
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    domino87 wrote:

    peekone wrote:
    Nothing changes, everything remains the same.

    They really brought that message home. Throughout the episode they kept using surveillance shots ala S1. They even had new kids knocking out the surveillance camera just like Bodie did back in S1. Even using the first season's theme for the montage, that was a great touch. Must say Clark Johnson did a helluva job.

    Great finale. It was crazy how everything came together at the end, specifically all the political games. So much lying and blackmailing, loved it.

    Oh hell yes, Slim Charles, hell yes. "That was for Joe."

    Clay Davis wasn't in this episode was he?

    Loved the shots of Baltimore right after the first hour. It was like one episode in the first hour then another after that.

    So many parallels at the end there.

    Michael= Omar

    Dukie= Bubbles

    Chris looked like Cutty to me, (glad to see Wee Bey)

    Marlo trying to get out of the game just like Stringer

    Have to watch that again. Can't believe its over..



    Maybe monk in a few years might be Cutty/but not Chris since he apparently has a life sentence.

    But also I can see

    Carver= Daniels
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  • Avatar of Sanifus

    Sanifus

    [26]Mar 9, 2008
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    Fantastic finale. Back at the start of the season I called for "Using the 1st season theme to show everything comes full circle" and I was very pleased to be right (mostly as I love The Blind Boys rendition of the song). But also as I was very pleased to see The Wire following it's theme of "nothing changes" with a series of perfect circles.

    It was the second best finale I've ever watched and The Wire has solidly put itself into the position of "Best. Show. Ever." Now we just need to get Joe Public to realise this.

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  • Avatar of niptuckSean

    niptuckSean

    [27]Mar 9, 2008
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    nicmar19422 wrote:
    I never thought I would say these words but the final episode of The Wire left me angry and above all disappointed I have watched it twice now and just can't get to a place where I feel good about it Let me say that I loved The Wire so much so that I declared it to be the best show in the history of television but to have it end like this is just insulting, and in my opinion this episode damages the whole show. I will start this rant by saying that I know this show does not give out happy endings and there is always going to be something that upsets or angers us that is the point. In every other season we were given something to hold on to in season one the citizen murder was avenged and Barksdale went down short term as it might have been in season two the girls in the can were spoken for and the major crimes unit was formed giving us that to look forward to season three gave us Omar's revenge and the police getting some small measure of victory even though it lead to Marlo's rise to power, Finally last year we see major crimes reformed with hope that the 23 bodies in the vacant houses will be dealt with and the knowledge that the boys we met weren't lost forever this year to see each and every character torn down and having to see Marlo get to outright win is too much. Marlo was the one character that the show ever portrayed as a straight villain no redeeming qualities he broke every rule of the street and society and killed people for fun and he makes a huge profit and gets to walk away clean no justice for Prop Joe, Butchie, Omar or anyone else .Even as a moral question it is more interesting if Marlo goes to jail because then at least we would be left with the question of was it worth it? Was catching Marlo who was responsible for the 22 bodies in the vacant as well as untold others worth the deaths of innocent people that the copy cat killed? With this ending that question is easily answered no because Marlo goes free. Next is Daniels who is the straight arrow he followed the rules and never stabbed anyone in the back and still he falls, which brings me to McNulty who sacrificed his career because he just couldn't stand to see people get away with 23 murders because punishing them would cost too much in either money or votes, I am not saying that he was without blame or that his fate was not deserved but for it all to have been for nothing is hard to swallow. Lester is in that same category so I will not rehash it this leaves us with Mike and Doukie both kids claimed by the corner in different ways. The Wire has always been a story about American cities this is what David Simon has always said when asked and what does this final episode tell us about them that is simple there is no hope. Marlo breaks the rules and comes out ahead now beyond the reach of the police or the street, so following the rules whatever they may be is pointless. Templeton Lies and makes up stories and win a prize meant for excellence in journalism so we take that telling the truth is a waste of time. Carcetti who was corrupted within a few months and shows us that getting elected to higher office is more important than helping the people of a city that he is sworn to govern. Clay Davis also gets away to put his hand in someone else's pocket condemning even more people to misery and hopelessness and Valcheck becomes police commissioner a brain dead racist hack who will keep up the tradition of juking stats and pointless street rips that will only worsen crime. So there you have it no victory no hope. Any thoughts that people have to share would be greatly appreciated.


    Holy ****ing run-ons Johnny. Paragraphs are also your friend.
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  • Avatar of rockin01

    rockin01

    [28]Mar 9, 2008
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    I waited until tonight to watch, even though I could have gotten hold of the leaked episode online. Wow- THIS is how you end a series as incredible as The Wire; with a nearly perfect finale. I have had my gripes with this season, from the shortened number of episodes, resulting in a rushed feel to some of the storylines, to the puckish way Omar was ignobly dispatched, to the oh-so-slow-developing newspaper storyline- but sub-par Wire still beats anything else out there by a country mile. This show should be held up as a template for any show aspiring to be a meaningful, dramatic diversion.

    And now, with this nearly flawless conclusion, The Wire has demonstrated how one should end a beloved, long-running series to the satisfaction of fans and critics alike (are you listening, David Chase?) Yeah, I could carp about the self-conscious final bows given to just about every major character who has ever appeared on the series,the too-neat wrap-ups of many storylines, and the doggedly bleak outlook for so many of the sympathetic characters (Dukie----NOOOOOOO!!!!), contrasted with the triumph of the evil, irredeemble scamps we have grown to loathe- but that would blur my bottom line: this was a damn good sendoff for the greatest show television has ever produced, and a wonderful stand-alone episode as well. Bye, bye, Wire! Irish wake, anyone?

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  • Avatar of kilcs33

    kilcs33

    [29]Mar 9, 2008
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    Wow crazy that it's over. I thought it was a good finale although all finales are definitley bittersweet. If everything would have warpped up too neatly and everyone was happy it wouldn't have been consistent with what The Wire has been about, but seeing Dukie in this episode killed me. How the police mess got sorted out was fine by me and seeing the glimpse into the future of the department shows that people are going to have to fight the same uphill battles that McNulty and Lester fought. Michael = Omar is cool with me, but I was really hoping that Randy would be his partner in crime. Of all the characters we met in Season 4, Randy was my favorite and we saw him twice this season and both times disappointed. Herc and Levy are slimeballs. So is Templeton. The parallels between Dukie and Bubbles are clear. I think it was tougher for me to see Dukie rip off Prez like that than to see him shoot up. When he ripped off Prez that was really when it was evident that there was no turning back for him. The one thing though about this episode, was that I think it showed that although Dukie faces long odds and will go through some bad times, he still has a shot at redemption. Seeing Bubbles finally get upstairs was probably my favorite part of the finale with one possible exception... I love what happened to Marlo. Sure, he got off the conspiracy charge, but he had to give up the crown. "My name is my name" and yet two little punk hoppers that we have never seen before step to Marlo and show no fear or respect. Some parallels are being drawn between Stringer and Marlo, but I think they are inaccurate. Stringer had a different side to him. He had the business sense. When Levy was introducing him to people, he was into it. Marlo couldn't stand it. He could have gone to prison and done 2 days and still had a hand in things like Avon did (wish he woulda made a cameo this episode somehow). Instead they really took away his identity, which is more important than where he lays his head. Great ending to a great show.
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  • Avatar of nicmar19422

    nicmar19422

    [30]Mar 9, 2008
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    To everyone who read and reacted to my earlier post on the finale let me humbley say that I was completly wrong! I don't know if I wrote what I wrote because I saw the leaked episode on my computer in an airport after being delayed for about for 5 hours or so or the fact that some assho** had to say "I already saw this heres what happened." this was a person at the gate not anyone here if that is what anyone was thinking I was so mad I didn't really see what was going on." so I beg forgiveness on that count.

    There were many great moments, from the wake and another great speach from Landsmen, to several call backs that I missed earlier "Yevett made Brisket" being one. Marlo did not get off scott free as the previously mentioned ass told me as that thoes charges are still on record and never dropped so he must live with being out of the game and betray his nature or go to jail. Templeton and his prize did symbolize the death of newspapers more effectivly that I had originally thought. I guess what I mean to say is that sometimes you see the tree miss the forrest I was tired and pissed that someone told me the ending so I saw none of the subtality of the finale I thank everyone who helped me see the light on this issue this is not sarcasm and I admitt my mistakes I am not ready to declare this one of my all time favorite episode but will concede that it is a worthy final chapter to a television masterpeice
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  • Avatar of HatchetRyda77

    HatchetRyda77

    [31]Mar 10, 2008
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    i liked this epidode. im not going to analyze down or anything, im not bored enough. i will miss this series, its one of my favorites. props to mike and bubbles. mike was one of my favorite characters that had so much potential. i wish there could be a spin-off for him. but all in all a great run. bravo to the wire. ill miss it.
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  • Avatar of lawgotham

    lawgotham

    [32]Mar 10, 2008
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    Great episode, it's what we've come to expect. One of my favorite scenes was Cheese getting it. He deserved it after helping to do in Prop Joe.
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  • Avatar of mustbebobby

    mustbebobby

    [33]Mar 10, 2008
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    I thought the episode was terrific. Michael as the new Omar made perfect sense, a "no women and kids" killer who saw through alot of the gangster **** and embodied the strength to ride alone (Snoop was right he was never one of them and I think Chris respected him for meeting the fork in the road and choose the path wanted to but did'nt) Chris was'nt at all sad to hear Chris bested Snoop. Marlo is a sad character, the love child of Barksdale and Bell, he was given what Bell wanted, but in love with what Barksdale had - the Crown. How ironic was it that the soldiers he roled on were spitting urban legends about the great "Omar" yet they had no clue who Marlo was. Marlo was a terrific chest player, but never one of the pieces on the board, hence the reaction to Omar's vocal disses. I hope at least Marlo has the loyalty and hopefully longevity to steak chris's family for taking the fall on the vacants. Chris and Weebay in the yard, that was a surreal moment. Cheese was always the character destined for death and i almost cheered when slim did the deed, always a loyal soldier. Slim will def'ly pull the co-op back together, he was truely greatful to be an understudy to Joe, based on Joe's longevity and his witness to Bell and Barkdale's fall. Prezbo has come along way from season one. Rawls and Templeton are very similar characters, though not evil, they lack 0% in morals and it was nice to see McNulty put em both in there places. Gus and Daniels are also very similar, honorable beyond means, and their stories seemed to parralel. Carcetti is a duechbag and The Wire creators really gave us their opinion on politicians in troubled urban cities with this show. They really love Baltimore and it's many shortcomings,with what has been probably the greatest TV show ever.
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  • Avatar of Goodlivn20

    Goodlivn20

    [34]Mar 10, 2008
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    I had no expectations for this episode and i came away from both this episode and this entire season underwhelmed

    the wire was a great show and it had a ton of very good scenes (some of which were in the finale) but a great deal fewer of them in the last couple seasons

    unlike many i am not sorry to see the wire come to an end because it seems to me that there was less and less that was compelling about each episode and so its better that a show call it quits rather than hanging on way too long.

    all that crap about checking templeton's reporting brings me what? 20mins of boring newspaper storyline in the finale meanwhile they bring in a copy cat and solve the case in what? 5mins (lol)....Michael is Omar now? ( LOL) i keep hearing how the wire was so great for not always giving closure to every story ( I.E: Marlo...) and sometimes the bad guy gets away....but then they wrap up the whole series and about 50 storylines in a neat bow and it took what...another 5mins:

    insert bubbs with family ( check) insert carter getting promo ( check) insert daniels as lawyer ( check) insert chris in jail ( check) insert Dukie as druggie ( check)...gee this writing thing is pretty easy eh?

    i can see why many loved the show ( my wife included) and wish it would have kept going and i respect that. i loved the show at one time and a little less every season so that by the finale i was more than ready to say goodbye to everyone involved

    in short, i said goodbye to The 'good' Wire a couple seasons ago...at least now i dont have to wonder if they can redeem it

    dont let the door hitya on the way out

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  • Avatar of Laserwolf412_XL

    Laserwolf412_XL

    [35]Mar 10, 2008
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    It was amazing how this show could almost completely re-invent itself each season with almost half a new cast each time, and yet each season was extremely good. Obviously people prefer one above the other, but there is something to be said for a fresh approach every 10-13 episodes.

    Personally I think this was the absolute best ending for The Wire, with all the plot wrap-ups. I also think the Sopranos ending was the best for that show. As far as people getting away with this and that, I think some of you are forgetting that the world didn't end when the credits rolled. The Pulitzer will probably be challenged and the 3 on stage will probably wish they never went for it. Marlo will probably die sooner rather than later, maybe even by the Greeks. Daniels seemed happy and was able to keep his integrity. McNulty's marriage and his future was probably saved by the punishment dealt. Freamon also seemed perfectly happy. Neither went to jail or were put through a trial. All-in-all I think it was a damn happy ending.

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  • Avatar of aaronmcc

    aaronmcc

    [36]Mar 10, 2008
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    Well, i loved it. It just seemed apt.

    I think anyone who is upset with Marlo getting away should look at the situation from his point of view. He came up, guns blazing, taking no sh*t from anyone, telling Barksdale where to go and finally claimed the crown. In the show he was portrayed as a conscienceless, almost soulless character. The satisfaction here, from the point of view of the audience, is that he had the one thing he cared about taken away from him: the game. Without it, he is lost. Ironic in that Stringer always to be where Marlo is now but it was he who couldn't escape, despite trying! With all his money Marlo can have anything except what he wants. He would probably rather be in prison or dead.

    Altogether my favourite moment was Chris walking over and standing beside Wee Bey. I just loved it. Both their masters angels of death. I definitely wouldn't like to party with two crazy b*st*rds!

    It's been amazing. I'll be first in line to buy the series boxset.

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  • Avatar of domino87

    domino87

    [37]Mar 10, 2008
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    Goodlivn20 wrote:
    Michael is Omar now? ( LOL)

    Wasn't it pretty obvious that this was going to happen? From being independent and having morals(not taking handouts, etc), to him always asking why, ala the young Omar from the prequels, the similarities have always been there. At first I thought the scene where he robbed Vinson was a little over the top, after re watching the scene in S4 when he holds up Officer Walker at gunpoint and takes his ring(ala Omar and Marlo), the two scenes are pretty similar and his acting doesn't seem that out of character in the latter.

    Goodlivn20 wrote:
    i keep hearing how the wire was so great for not always giving closure to every story ( I.E: Marlo...) and sometimes the bad guy gets away....but then they wrap up the whole series and about 50 storylines in a neat bow and it took what...another 5mins: insert bubbs with family ( check) insert carter getting promo ( check) insert daniels as lawyer ( check) insert chris in jail ( check) insert Dukie as druggie ( check)...gee this writing thing is pretty easy eh

    I've seen a lot of people saying this, but I really don't get your gripe. Are you displeased they gave us conclusions to all the different story's and characters we've cared about for as long as 6 years? Would you rather have them leave it up in the air? Yes it was un-Wire-like, it was unapologetic fan service, but so what? If one show deserves to go out of character for 5 minutes out of one show of it's entire run, it's this one.

    Also the only reason it was wrapped up in a neat and tidy bow like that was because of the use of flash forward scenes in the montage. The montage scenes in the season finales have always tried to give closure to the story's that were no longer going to be told the following season. There was no following season for S5 so they went ahead and showed scenes from a year or two in the future to wrap everything up. I have no problem with that.

    From Tim Goodman's Blog, he says is better than I:

    "This series went out as brilliantly as it came in, and I say that knowing finales to seasons are difficult enough, but finales to series are impossible to pull off. No one will ever be entirely happy - perhaps not even the series creator or the writers themselves. Endings are hard. Everybody knows that.

    I suspect people might be split into two camps - loving the extended montages that wrapped up so many storylines (which held true to "Wire" tradition) and those who might have preferred a more "Sopranos"-esque ending that left more up to interpretation and left characters and storylines in the ether. Me, I liked the tidy ending because it has been done in the past and hasn't detracted from the quality and, more importantly, why not reward people who have watched five seasons of the most complicated, novelistic stories ever told on television? Hell, "The Wire" is hard work. Always has been. There's no shame in a reward for the effort."

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  • Avatar of sifuhotman34

    sifuhotman34

    [38]Mar 10, 2008
    • member since: 01/21/08
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    This was a fantastic conclusion to a stellar series! I'm gonna miss this show a lot. The Wire was about as close to real life as show could possibly get. One thing that stuck out in my mind was the new generation and new changes to the game itself. Michael becoming the new Omar, Dukie becoming the new Bubbles, Slim Charles running the Co-op and many others. I was the main one who griped about the way Omar died but looking back, it was pure brilliance on the writers part and I give them props. I loved the scene where those two dudes were talking about Omar and his legacy and when Marlo walked up, they din't recognize him. It hit Marlo at that point that no matter how hard he tries, he can't get out of the game, and it was clear he didn't want to. Marlo lost his crown and his rep (a fate worse than death in Marlo's eyes); this is Omar's ultimate revenge from beyond the grave. The only thing I would've done to cap the whole Marlo situation would be if Marlo saw Omar (hallucination or ghost or whatever) on the street and Omar gloating about how Marlo lost it all and though he isn't in jail and he's got money, he's a complete nobody.

    Back to the finale, I still can't believe McNulty pulled it off. He got off easier than I thought he would. In fact, the way everything resolved itself and how the future was being shown in the montage at the end, it fit perfectly but I seriously wanted to strangle myself when Templeton got the Pulitzer. Then again, it will catch up to him in the end, it's just a shame I can't see it. Great end to a great show.
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  • Avatar of nicmar19422

    nicmar19422

    [39]Mar 10, 2008
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    I don't get the gripes about the newspaper storyline it seemed a little out of place but any time you introduce new chacters in the final season of a show this is bound to happen. I really liked Clark Jhonson as Gus on any other series this could have carried a season and I think it made an important point, if the newspapers decide what is news based on what sells the best how are we ever going to see change. In its hayday Newspaers crusaded against coruption and the kind of injustice that we see in many cities today, even in the days of Edward R Murro tv news did much the same thing now instead of investigative journalism we have news magizines. when Katie Couric took over the evning news she asked viewers what they wanted to see on the news what does that say about the priorties of the so called fourth estate. any democracy works best with a well informed public and if newspapers no longer act in that capacity who will
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  • Avatar of MJR21

    MJR21

    [40]Mar 10, 2008
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    It would have been cool to see Barksdale in the last scene with Chris.
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