Torchwood: Miracle Day Forums

Starz (ended 2011)

Official Discussion Thread: 1.05 The Categories of Life (possible Spoilers)

  • Avatar of anbis82

    anbis82

    [1]Aug 5, 2011
    • member since: 08/01/07
    • level: 60
    • rank: Grape Ape
    • posts: 1,729

    Please use this thread to discuss tonight's new episode. Enjoy!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of rickvega

    rickvega

    [2]Aug 5, 2011
    • member since: 01/28/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 130

    Wow just finished seeing it here in LA and all i can say is the last few minutes of it where interesting i cant believe all that happen what will they do next poor doctor but that what happens in torchwood everyone dies..

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Clem711

    Clem711

    [3]Aug 5, 2011
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 18

    I'm a long time Torchwood fan and I was really open to the American move, but I honestly can't get into this story.



    SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS



    Please someone explain to me why the big "reveal" makes any kind of sense. Phicorp is a major medical company. The goal of the miracle should therefore be something that benefits big medicine. I started to think maybe they were setting up the idea that the camps hooked patients on some form of sedative they would then be dependent upon (earning Phicorp big money). I wrongly interpreted Gwen's father's sudden sickness after leaving to be some kind of clue. But...I still don't get this ending. It's practical in terms of getting rid of bodies but why on earth is the big "end game" just to burn people alive? I see how they make money from painkillers and government funding for camps. I just thought there was supposed to be a bigger, deeper motive behind it. Burning people just seemed like a cheap shock twist. Also, nothing can make me give a damn about Esther and Dr. Juarez. I'm a huge Davies/Espenson fan and I find it shocking they could create such flat characters between them. Any thoughts anyone? I'm really trying to spin this in a way that makes sense/is satisfying to me because I want to keep loving this show.


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Res_Dog

    Res_Dog

    [4]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 10/27/09
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 26

    SPOILERS - Well of course there are spoilers, who looks at this thread thinking 'Oh, a thread where an episode of torchwood is discussed, I hope they don't talk about it's content' *head-against-wall* - SPOILERS






    @Clem: Well, no company - no matter how profit-oriented they are - would cause such a giant, well, tranformation of the human race. That's simply not going to happen. Whoever caused this needed the infrastructure and resources of a global corporation to pull this off smoothly, so they chose PhiCorp and made a bargain with them (PhiCorps is still going to make a ton of money). A pharmaceutical company was the obvious choice - if you can't rely on the state for healthcare you turn to the private sector.


    Regarding the burning centers: To be honest, those were my first thought too, if you've got more and more bodies piling up all over the world with no chance of recovery and possibly eternal pain, it appears to be the obvious solution (morals aside here). I liked that they didn't come up with some foney stuff like 'omg, they feed the bodies to a giant space-snake which sucks out their life force', there will however be more to the burning, of course.


    I don't really care for Esther, she is simply useless (her own words ;-) ), Dr. Juarez on the other hand had potential and didn't appear to be so wildly naive as Esther is. But the showrunners chose to make her act like a stupid suicidal idiot, because the burning would have a higher emotional impact on the viewers if a main character were killed. I think the better choice would've been to kill Gwens father off - viewers would've actually cared about that (which is why I'm quite happy they didn't kill him off ;-) ) and, as opposed to Dr. Juarez, he didn't have much potential to add to the story. But now they can break him out next episode, so there's that.


    Only 4 episodes left, I'm thrilled to see where they are going. Hopefully they'll reveal the real enemy next week - when shows choose to 'reveal everything' in the second-to-last episode it's usually extremly unsatisfying 'Oh, we took 9 episodes to figure out who the enemy is, no we take him down in 1 ep, sure...' and shows that the authors didn't really put any effort in developing an adversary who would be complex enough to last for more than two eps. BUT, this is Torchwood we're talking about so I'm having a good feeling about this.

    Edited on 08/06/2011 1:32am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of scottjoc

    scottjoc

    [5]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 05/08/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 226
    One thing about this series has been really irritating me. The characters complete obliviousness to the fact that they can't really die.

    Gwen still acting like her father is in mortal danger, I was screaming at the screen 'for ---- sake, just take him home he'll get better, he can't die' Either Gwen is completely thick or emotions got the best of her, or both. I can't believe everyone in the world is this stupid though. Like Gwens husband knowing that something fishy is going on or should know that something is fishy and then agreeing to turn over gwens dad to the camp in the first place.

    Its a bit nitpicky yes but still.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SlidingKat

    SlidingKat

    [6]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 09/13/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 119
    So freaking bored with this. It is all humans using human methods. Sorry but I got hooked on Torchwood for the alien stories. This doesn't even touch on out of this world except for the one comment about it is someone from Jack's distant past. The injuring and burning people who can't die is just creepy. That's got to be the ultimate torture dealing with the pain of having your body burnt when you can't die. So what's the deal? Did they rewrite the definition of this season dilemma that you can't die to now include you can die if the body is destroyed? Does the soul then provide some spaceship fuel?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kal_L

    Kal_L

    [7]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 01/19/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 23

    scottjoc wrote:
    One thing about this series has been really irritating me. The characters complete obliviousness to the fact that they can't really die. Gwen still acting like her father is in mortal danger, I was screaming at the screen 'for ---- sake, just take him home he'll get better, he can't die' Either Gwen is completely thick or emotions got the best of her, or both.



    He can't die but he can suffer permanent brain damage due to lack of oxygen if his heart stops.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of scottjoc

    scottjoc

    [8]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 05/08/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 226

    Hrm, Good point - I didn't think of that. I withdraw my complaint then


    Edit: actually, wait a minute, didn't they establish that the cells still got oxygen regardless in earlier episodes? I mean the guy with the head removed was still conscious and able to see so the brain damage thing couldn't happen, right?

    Edited on 08/06/2011 10:50am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kok_warlock

    kok_warlock

    [9]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 09/29/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 311

    Damn, am I the one who really, I mean really liked this episode??

    I saw the previous seasons of Torchwood, and frankly, imo, this is so much better, yes, there are a few plotholes, but, in relation to Vera, the obvious thing that looked like it would happen, was that people would save them, and then that doctor was gonna get burned or tossed with the rest of level 1, but instead she was the one that got burned.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PickANameAnyOne

    PickANameAnyOne

    [10]Aug 6, 2011
    • member since: 03/22/09
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 5

    I'm an American. I love Dr Who. And I've enjoyed Torchwood in the past. But this season? I'm hating it.


    Part of the appeal of Torchwood was its ties to Dr Who. Captain Jack would know more than anyone else because of his hundreds of years of experience plus interaction with aliens and what we consider "the future". In this Americanized Torchwood, that's pretty much glossed over. Captain Jack does keep making a few references to being 100s of years old - but that's it. He doesn't provide any useful information or solutions based on his experience. Instead, we have CIA operative Rex Matheson driving the team and providing most of the resources. Why? That should be Jack's job/role. Jack should mysteriously have access to resources and contacts to learn necessary facts/provide equipment/etc. But so far, since rescuing Gwen from the helicopter - Jack isn't providing anything.


    Torchwood to me has always been "Dr Who"-light. It's not quite as good or as powerful as Dr Who, but it's still connected to Dr Who - it's still relevant to the Dr Who universe - and it's also entertaining in its own right. Until now. Miracle Day is a copy of a copy where it's become so blurred that nothing of the original remains. Most episode time is focused on how the entire world is reacting to "the Miracle". But we don't care about the entire world. We turned in to watch our characters tackle the problem and solve it. So far, the characters are acting fairly randomly/stupidly and much of our time is spent focusing on "how would the world react...". I think this Miracle Day plot-line should have been a multi-episode-arc - 3, maybe 4 episodes at most. It shouldn't have been stretched into a 10-episode season of its own. And that stretching has been accomplished by removing us even further from Dr Who and focusing on the-rest-of-world to a level of detail that I really am not interested to see...

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Veshta

    Veshta

    [11]Aug 7, 2011
    • member since: 06/21/11
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 5
    The dead(ish) and irreparably damaged individuals hold no interest to a pharmaceutical .. they make their money treating symptoms. Camps serve to make them look like the good community conscientious guys while getting rid of non-revenue subjects .. Win-Win for PhiCorp.

    Question we should be asking is who is behind the miracle itself, who is feeding PhiCorp intel and/or running PhiCorp.

    Only hint so far that I have seen was "The Family will rise/return", "Angels" and the horrendously well-groomed smiling suit in Ep5 which for me is pointing to The Family of Blood who was imprisoned by the 10th Doctor.
    Fits well with the whole Mortal Jack thing as they need/want immortal hosts, so they found a way to change the vortex energy ('Bad Wolf' was the best storyline EVER!) fuelling Jack into a planet-wide effect (now diluted as healing appears "normal").

    PS: Body-snatchers also have no use for broken bodies, immortal or not, so getting rid of them (through PhiCorp) makes doubly sense.

    There, solved the whole thing. Next!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of scottjoc

    scottjoc

    [12]Aug 7, 2011
    • member since: 05/08/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 226
    I knew from basically the start as soon as they said 'they aren't indestructible they just don't die' that they were going to have some kind of crusher or oven like thing in a later episode.

    I wasn't surprised by that, in fact it would be weird if they didn't have that - it would be necessary in a world like this - theres not enough space to keep everyone.

    Also, perhaps the remains of the humans (albeit they might still be alive as ash, dunno how that works) might be of some use to PhiCorp? Perhaps thats what their drugs are made of?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [13]Aug 7, 2011
    • member since: 07/02/03
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 3,312

    I wonder if they're going the Nazis route.



    Large ovens


    Charismatic aryan confronting the PR lady


    Jack giving "something" to someone in the past (perhaps the 30s / 40s).



    In a bunch of shows, including Torchwood and Supernatural, as creepy as the monsters and aliens are... humans are usually more-so. Look at the cannibal episode in S1 Torchwood... down-right creepy.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of althalus69

    althalus69

    [14]Aug 7, 2011
    • member since: 07/19/06
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 84
    Well, the Doctor died of her own stupidity, and we can safely assume, that a lot more people are going to die by the end of this series.

    Gwens dad is a certain goner, Rex will be offed (he's half dead already) and Esther just needs to go for that botchted-up job with her sister.

    So in the end, there will be Jack and Gwen again, ready for a new Torchwood team

    And btw. I really like the transition to the US, and so far all episodes were brilliant.

    As for who is behind all this, interesting questin, but more: What do they get out of it? And I think the dead cremated people will play a heavy role in this...
    Edited on 08/07/2011 2:49pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of rickvega

    rickvega

    [15]Aug 8, 2011
    • member since: 01/28/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 130

    Ok heres what I dont get Torchwood has and will always be about Aliens, now I would think that all the buzz aroundPhicorp would involve some sort of evil Alien behind it with an Evil Agenda. So far what 5/6 episodes in and we havent seen any Aliens or even a mention of them. So the big deal with PhiCorp is that they want to make money out of the miracle does not make sense to me. And whos behind it and how did they know that the Miracle was gonna happen????



    In All honesty Children of Earth was better written and made more sense. Whos with me?????

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jemadari

    Jemadari

    [16]Aug 9, 2011
    • member since: 07/10/05
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,513

    rickvega wrote:


    In All honesty Children of Earth was better written and made more sense. Whos with me?????



    Everyone who's seen Children of Earth Smile

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [17]Aug 10, 2011
    • member since: 07/02/03
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 3,312

    Jemadari wrote:


    rickvega wrote:


    In All honesty Children of Earth was better written and made more sense. Whos with me?????



    Everyone who's seen Children of Earth Smile




    Well, I'm on the fence. It's not really a fair comparison.


    Children of Earth was essentially a mini-series, meaning they had little time for fluff or even build-up. So you quickly went into the story, the "mystery" was quickly revealed, and didn't have any filler scenes. It's one of the things I like about mini-series or even very short seasons (in story-arch shows).


    Here, we have a slower build-up... and a show that has to re-introduce itself so some might complain it's too slow. We're already a while in and we can only guess at what's really going on. Meanwhile they had to introduce new heroes, set the stage for a continent switch, "reset" the team (since it was destroyed), AND put in enough to introduce a new target audience to the concept and Jack.



    Which has better writing... I'm leaning towards CoE by only a little bit.


    I'll be honest, as much as I like Torchwood I wasn't a fan of Children of Earth;it was interesting and creepy but I only thought it was "alright." I guess part of it was that I missed 2 of the main characters from the old show, and part of it because I just wasn't a fan of the premise.


    The current season, is "alright" but it's lacking a lot. Maybe it's just that it's getting old / stale, maybe it's because of the cast changes, maybe the American influence. I still LIKE it but I don't love it.


    If I had to rate it on my prefrences:


    Torchwood (pre CoE) 9/10
    Children of Earth 7.5/10
    Miracle Day 7/10

    Edited on 08/10/2011 6:37am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of FLena

    FLena

    [18]Aug 10, 2011
    • member since: 06/15/09
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 4

    I agree with you. I am a dr. Who fan, who liked Capt Jack when he appeared in it. I hadn't really seen Torchwood. So I started doing that last week. It is much more full with aliens, and extra knowledge from other worlds etc. I am still waiting for something to be explained with this new series. Jack is pushed to the background, and although people don't die, they should be trying to find out how to turn it around. But no, they cross the US, don't get caught, and now have found out where the really sick people are being sent. So, what now??

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BradNichols

    BradNichols

    [19]Aug 10, 2011
    • member since: 08/10/11
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 3

    Veshta wrote:
    Question we should be asking is who is behind the miracle itself, who is feeding PhiCorp intel and/or running PhiCorp. Only hint so far that I have seen was "The Family will rise/return", "Angels" and the horrendously well-groomed smiling suit in Ep5 which for me is pointing to The Family of Blood who was imprisoned by the 10th Doctor. Fits well with the whole Mortal Jack thing as they need/want immortal hosts, so they found a way to change the vortex energy ('Bad Wolf' was the best storyline EVER!) fuelling Jack into a planet-wide effect (now diluted as healing appears "normal").




    To start I'm a huge Dr. Who fan. I've always wanted to watch torchwood when I had the time but found myself jumping in on miracle day. At the end of miracle day episode 4 when killing Ellis Hartley Monroe the voice says "the families will rise" implying that whoever is setting everything up has much to gain from the state of our world. In Dr. Who season 3 episodes 8 and 9 the doctor encounters a race of aliens that refer to themselves as The Family Of Blood. Veshta made a valid point except that it would seem impossible for them to escape. But, in those episodes they brought up that there used to be many Families and that they are the last of their kind. In their time they steal a time traveling ship to hunt down the Doctor and follow him to the 1800s which is the distant past for them. These aliens require a host to survive but while inside a host their presence drains the life out of them until death and the host becomes useless and uninhabitable. They pursue the doctor (who is a time lord with the power to live forever for those who do not know) so that they will have the means to live forever. After the reference to the family in episode 4 and the miracle being humans not being able to die I feel it is a wise assumption that they are hand behind everything.




    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of anbis82

    anbis82

    [20]Aug 11, 2011
    • member since: 08/01/07
    • level: 60
    • rank: Grape Ape
    • posts: 1,729

    Thanks for summarizing what happened in these Doctor Who episodes, there was just a faint memory of scarecrows (that was the one with the scarecrows, right?)

    This connection makes more and more sense, I don't believe either they burn the bodies just to get rid of them. They probably want the ashes.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.