Torchwood: Miracle Day Forums

Starz (ended 0000)

Official Discussion Thread: 1.07 Immortal Sins (possible Spoilers)

  • Avatar of anbis82

    anbis82

    [1]Aug 18, 2011
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    Please use this thread to discuss tomorrow's new episode. Enjoy!

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    rickvega

    [2]Aug 19, 2011
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    Ouch, poor Jack all the pain he must have suffered, and all this just to get Jack?????? Yay glad to see Nana Visitor. Cant wait till next episode to see what happens and see why Angelo wants jack back and if he created this Miracle. Wait could Olivia Colasanto be (Angelo's daughter or even grand daughter)????????

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    Res_Dog

    [3]Aug 20, 2011
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    Again with the gay stuff... I mean, the whole premise of Jacks sexuality is, that he is attracted to attractive people, regardless of gender, but in miracle day he is about the gayest guy ever. But hey, we all know that Russel T. Davis has some serious issues.

    Other than that: Decent ep, hopefully we'll enter the showdown with the real enemy next week. At least we now know what the triangle stands for and if I remember correctly they took some blood from Jack when he was locked up in the butchers basement.
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    sparkdawson

    [4]Aug 20, 2011
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    Hey, i noticed a possible mistake in this episode when Jack and Angelo are on roof getting his gun and jacket from the steam vent after he escapes the butchers he tells Angelo that he is a fixed point in time and that is why he can 't die.


    46minutes approx


    CaptainJack Harkness:Time to move on; but not with you


    Angelo Colasanto:I'm sorry, I was terrified Jack, they said you were the devil, but other people said your were a blessing.


    CaptainJack Harkness: Somethinghappenedto me once, a long way away, time itself changed me to a......fixed point, and now i can't die; i suffer, and iperish, but i always come back; i have lived through a lot of earths past and a lot of its future and ill keep on living this life forever".


    Im a just wondering how he knew that, he finds out from the doctor in utopia that he was fixed pointbecauseof Rose which is about 80 years in the future ??


    Is this a mistake or are there other opinions on this ???

    Edited on 08/20/2011 10:57am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    tommy0122

    [5]Aug 20, 2011
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    Res_Dog wrote:
    Again with the gay stuff... I mean, the whole premise of Jacks sexuality is, that he is attracted to attractive people, regardless of gender, but in miracle day he is about the gayest guy ever. But hey, we all know that Russel T. Davis has some serious issues.

    Other than that: Decent ep, hopefully we'll enter the showdown with the real enemy next week. At least we now know what the triangle stands for and if I remember correctly they took some blood from Jack when he was locked up in the butchers basement.


    Yep, they just can't stay away from the gay stuff. You've got to remember that this has a strong British influence and the Brits do love their gays.
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    Veshta

    [6]Aug 20, 2011
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    tommy0122 wrote:
    Yep, they just can't stay away from the gay stuff. You've got to remember that this has a strong British influence and the Brits do love their gays.
    Naah, the explicit nature is a US thing (same thing in many bigger Starz series the past several years) .. Children of Earth is about as far as the British go in that regard (ie. heavy breathing and loads of innuendo ).



    So we finally know who is pulling the strings, missed it by a couple of years or so in my prediction of it being the Family of Blood (knew it had to be recent history though):


    The Trickster is back and have recruited PhiCorp whose founders (notice the awkward triangle handshake?) apparently saw an immortal man as an investment opportunity, Trans-dimensional entity that feeds on chaos.


    Trickster on TARDIS Wiki:http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Trickster


    How the Angelo thing fits in is beyond me, seems like a sidetrack to me. Guess he took Jack's advice and saved up and was able to weather the '29 crash and maybe even got some cheap stock to make him a power-monger in present day .. maybe even got in on the ground-floor of the PhiCorp startup which explains them being able to plan for miracle day.


    Where the Trickster comes in is trickier (pun intended). Could be he happened upon Angelo as he lay dying, making one of his bargains and after hearing the story of Jack, the Trickster came up with a way to redistribute the infinite-life energy(manipulating energy is relatively "easy")thus creating the massive disaster that undying humanity is - FEEDING FRENZYYYYYYYYYYYY.


    PS: No wonder Jack only visited the US after that trip .. yanks are obviously blood crazed psychos

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    SlidingKat

    [7]Aug 21, 2011
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    wibly wobbly time stuff...Jack jumps around in time, but his experiences are lived in chronological order. Therefore he was told he is a fixed point in time "a long time" before he was in 1928 with this scene.

    Edited on 08/21/2011 1:47am
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  • Avatar of SlidingKat

    SlidingKat

    [8]Aug 21, 2011
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    Finally an episode of Torchwood, this season, worth keeping. Loved the gay scenes. I may be straight, but Jack was hot and sexy.
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    machloop

    [9]Aug 21, 2011
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    tommy0122 wrote:
    Yep, they just can't stay away from the gay stuff. You've got to remember that this has a strong British influence and the Brits do love their gays.


    The British love campness and have quite a few 'camp' presenters on prime time national TV. In the main we are very tolerant of minorities but to have half an hour of 'fudge packing' inserted inside one of our best sci-fi shows just to attract an American audience is criminal. Download and watch the first three series, they are much better than this!



    .

    Edited on 08/21/2011 4:25am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [10]Aug 21, 2011
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    machloop wrote:

    tommy0122 wrote:
    Yep, they just can't stay away from the gay stuff. You've got to remember that this has a strong British influence and the Brits do love their gays.


    The British love campness and have quite a few 'camp' presenters on prime time national TV. In the main we are very tolerant of minorities but to have half an hour of 'fudge packing' inserted inside one of our best sci-fi shows just to attract an American audience is criminal. Download and watch the first three series, they are much better than this!



    .



    I agree, it was just too much. I don't think that it's an American thing. I recall watching the BBC version and the gay theme was pretty rampant. A lot of open mouth kissing, etc. I do agree the American version showed a lot more skin. I'm pretty tolerant of gays, but I really don't need to see the fudge-packing up close. Maybe gays are offended by straight sex depictions, but we straights are still the majority and the majority "should" rule. My guess is that the writers and producers, American and British, lean in that direction so they relish the opportunity to present their preferences.
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    sinjaceheroes

    [11]Aug 21, 2011
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    Res_Dog wrote:
    I remember correctly they took some blood from Jack when he was locked up in the butchers basement.


    I've heard this someplace else, but the thing is since Jack is a fixed point, how can his blood be causing his immortality? He's immortal because as a "fixed point" his existence was paused in Time itself, it is not biological immortality, which is why I am seeing this whole blood thing with suspicious eyes... >_>


    They better explain this, cause if his blood is whats gives immortality, then, why don't they regenerate? Why do they just "live on"? And what would that have to do with the fields, which are of course important?


    My theory is that the field is the key. Somehow these three men are able to manipulate the field. This is why they were hard on making Oswald say the words "Revelations" and "Phicor" together. Apparently sending messages through the field can change people. Maybe by sending an "immortal message" or maybe something with Jack's blood (though I hope not) they are making people live on, though not regenerating like Jack does.


    I dont know. Its confusing still.

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    MrShotShot

    [12]Aug 22, 2011
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    I liked the episode, but I really hope there's a little more to the story than "Jack's old boyfriend wanting them to die together".

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  • Avatar of Akusho

    Akusho

    [13]Aug 22, 2011
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    So... what was the point of the kidnappings, if Jack would go anyway once he heard the name?

    Edited on 08/22/2011 9:38am
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    thribs

    [14]Aug 22, 2011
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    tommy0122 wrote:
    Yep, they just can't stay away from the gay stuff. You've got to remember that this has a strong British influence and the Brits do love their gays.
    I take exception to that. We bash gays just like the rest of the world!

    Edited on 08/22/2011 10:27am
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    thribs

    [15]Aug 22, 2011
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:

    Res_Dog wrote:
    I remember correctly they took some blood from Jack when he was locked up in the butchers basement.


    I've heard this someplace else, but the thing is since Jack is a fixed point, how can his blood be causing his immortality? He's immortal because as a "fixed point" his existence was paused in Time itself, it is not biological immortality, which is why I am seeing this whole blood thing with suspicious eyes... >_>


    They better explain this, cause if his blood is whats gives immortality, then, why don't they regenerate? Why do they just "live on"? And what would that have to do with the fields, which are of course important?


    My theory is that the field is the key. Somehow these three men are able to manipulate the field. This is why they were hard on making Oswald say the words "Revelations" and "Phicor" together. Apparently sending messages through the field can change people. Maybe by sending an "immortal message" or maybe something with Jack's blood (though I hope not) they are making people live on, though not regenerating like Jack does.


    I dont know. Its confusing still.



    I like your theory, It does sound like something RTD would do!
    I'm just feeling sorry for the Daleks! How can they exterminate people now?
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    lynna12000

    [16]Aug 22, 2011
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    Don't really care about the 'gay stuff'. Jack has never hidden the fact that he is 'omnisexual'. It was time to find out a little more about the 'who'. Now we just need to find out why, and how the team is going to end the 'miracle'. And just what it is going to cost.

    Gwen and Jacks' conversation about why she was doing what she was doing was a good one. It's good to where they stand with each other.
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    kanniballl

    [17]Aug 25, 2011
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:


    Res_Dog wrote:
    I remember correctly they took some blood from Jack when he was locked up in the butchers basement.


    I've heard this someplace else, but the thing is since Jack is a fixed point, how can his blood be causing his immortality? He's immortal because as a "fixed point" his existence was paused in Time itself, it is not biological immortality, which is why I am seeing this whole blood thing with suspicious eyes... >_>


    They better explain this, cause if his blood is whats gives immortality, then, why don't they regenerate? Why do they just "live on"? And what would that have to do with the fields, which are of course important?


    My theory is that the field is the key. Somehow these three men are able to manipulate the field. This is why they were hard on making Oswald say the words "Revelations" and "Phicor" together. Apparently sending messages through the field can change people. Maybe by sending an "immortal message" or maybe something with Jack's blood (though I hope not) they are making people live on, though not regenerating like Jack does.


    I dont know. Its confusing still.



    Especially when we've seen that his descendants age normally.


    Plus, am I mistaken, or was he also missing toes after he was let down off the hook. Perhaps they took more than blood.



    Maybe via the blood and tissue they learned the mechanics of what Rose did to him. Not that they figured out a DNA strand or something but found a remnant of vortex energy or whatever and used THAT to turn everyone.



    I mean, if it wasn't for Jack explicitly reminding us about the whole fixed-place-in-time thing, I'd think the writers were retconning that whole bit.

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    anbis82

    [18]Aug 25, 2011
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    I didn't notice any missing toes (I will take another look though), I thought that shot was supposed to place a biblical reference, the sinner washes the feet.

    Well, it can't be Jack's blood, there should be nothing in it to explain Jack's former immortality. And like you say, people are not healing, they are just not dying, that's not exactly the same. No, it's about the field. Oh, I just hope they give us a good explanation...

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    sinjaceheroes

    [19]Aug 26, 2011
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    Actually if I remember correctly, it was Jack who early in the MD series said something like: "It's like something is urging them, telling them to "live, live"." This could be as kaniballl said up there, maybe the Triangle found some sort of "vortex energy remnant in his DNA" (sounds right up RTD's alley) and used THAT to mess with the field. And it is the field which is urging then to live on.


    Maybe, when the Triangle (tis what Im calling them until we get their name) got his blood and maybe flesh and they messed with the Field and became immortal, (the good kind), and continued with their plan [whatever it is]. But the thing is that since even Immortal Humans age, the Triangle should be old and crippled as f**k!


    By the way, this is how Angelo is alive as well. He's gonna be old as f**k too. He was also the one talking to Gwen through the eyes.


    But with only 3 episodes left, there is MUCH yet to be explained. I hope they don't leave it all for the last episode ala Dean Koontz book. Some of the questions of the top of my head:


    1- Who are the Triangle?


    2- How did they mess with the field in 1945 tech? (Obviously its gonna be alien tech but whatever)


    3- Why would Angelo choose to become immortal and NOT go to Jack before now? (Since this could all have started by Angelo wanting to become immortal so that Jack wouldnt have to be worried about him and they could travel together)


    4- What is Phicor and who is behind it? (They cant all be humans)


    5- How to reverse it on a grand scale?


    6- Why did they take so long to activate it if they could do it more than 6 decades ago?



    And the last episode is called Bloodline..this is what worries me.


    Actually, you know what I thought when this whole immortal humans started: that at the end of it a group of people would remain immortal with age and age and age. Cause Jack ages, we have been told and we have seen as much. So, Jack would take the few remaining immortal and hide their identities or something and with time they would continue to age until they became Boe kind. With Jack being the Face of Boe as it has been hinted or said outright. It depends on whether or not you liked the idea.


    oh, and P.S. there is always a sacrifice to be made into stopping a Torchwood big bad:


    Series 1: Jack himself. (though temporary)


    Series 2: Owen and Toshiko.


    Series 3: Jack's grandson and Ianto.


    Series 4: Jack's humanity; he'll choose to become the fixed point to reverse the process.


    Since we learned last episode that he doesnt care about being immortal anymore and would prefer to continue on human, Im betting this will be the sacrifice this season.

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    thribs

    [20]Aug 26, 2011
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    sinjaceheroes wrote:


    Actually if I remember correctly, it was Jack who early in the MD series said something like: "It's like something is urging them, telling them to "live, live"." This could be as kaniballl said up there, maybe the Triangle found some sort of "vortex energy remnant in his DNA" (sounds right up RTD's alley) and used THAT to mess with the field. And it is the field which is urging then to live on.


    Maybe, when the Triangle (tis what Im calling them until we get their name) got his blood and maybe flesh and they messed with the Field and became immortal, (the good kind), and continued with their plan [whatever it is]. But the thing is that since even Immortal Humans age, the Triangle should be old and crippled as f**k!


    By the way, this is how Angelo is alive as well. He's gonna be old as f**k too. He was also the one talking to Gwen through the eyes.


    But with only 3 episodes left, there is MUCH yet to be explained. I hope they don't leave it all for the last episode ala Dean Koontz book. Some of the questions of the top of my head:


    1- Who are the Triangle?


    2- How did they mess with the field in 1945 tech? (Obviously its gonna be alien tech but whatever)


    3- Why would Angelo choose to become immortal and NOT go to Jack before now? (Since this could all have started by Angelo wanting to become immortal so that Jack wouldnt have to be worried about him and they could travel together)


    4- What is Phicor and who is behind it? (They cant all be humans)


    5- How to reverse it on a grand scale?


    6- Why did they take so long to activate it if they could do it more than 6 decades ago?



    And the last episode is called Bloodline..this is what worries me.


    Actually, you know what I thought when this whole immortal humans started: that at the end of it a group of people would remain immortal with age and age and age. Cause Jack ages, we have been told and we have seen as much. So, Jack would take the few remaining immortal and hide their identities or something and with time they would continue to age until they became Boe kind. With Jack being the Face of Boe as it has been hinted or said outright. It depends on whether or not you liked the idea.


    oh, and P.S. there is always a sacrifice to be made into stopping a Torchwood big bad:


    Series 1: Jack himself. (though temporary)


    Series 2: Owen and Toshiko.


    Series 3: Jack's grandson and Ianto.


    Series 4: Jack's humanity; he'll choose to become the fixed point to reverse the process.


    Since we learned last episode that he doesnt care about being immortal anymore and would prefer to continue on human, Im betting this will be the sacrifice this season.



    7- Why has no one called for the Doctor's help?

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