Warehouse 13 Forums

Monday 9:00 PM on SyfyIn Season

Official Discussion Thread: Age Before Beauty (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Jul 27, 2010
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 100
    • rank: Master of the Universe
    • posts: 47,724
    Please discuss all general and specific discussion of the 7/27/10 episode "Age Before Beauty" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kncarman

    kncarman

    [2]Jul 27, 2010
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 42

    Can you tell me why claudia has no past. She said when she got back from her date that she is a freak that has no past.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [3]Jul 27, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393
    kncarman wrote:

    Can you tell me why claudia has no past. She said when she got back from her date that she is a freak that has no past.

    Brother stuck in another dimension, years in an insane asylum ... it's not that she has *no* past, it's that she hasn't got a past she can talk about, and hope to impress a guy on the first date with it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [4]Jul 27, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393

    A cute episode, and the writing was still great, but it did get a little Castle-esque tonight ... soon as I saw the photographer show up to take the photos for Myka's portfolio, I knew the artifact was a camera, and soon as the other guy showed up to talk about her photos, I knew he was the guy that had it. Then it was confirmed when he was the only photographer at her show with an old-time camera instead of the standard issue DSLR or medium format rig used by pros.


    Interesting he was able to get the kind of access he had, and nobody questioned that he was using the antique. But then I have a photographic background, so these are the sorts of things that I pay attention to. Not that they ruined the story for me, by any stretch, though sometimes it does, but here, the writing was still otherwise strong.


    We had another Pete-Myka shipper moment tonight, with the whole "big sister should be the jealous one" speech. It was an okay moment, but it played kind of heavy, especially in light of the promises we've had that Pete and Myka aren't going to couple. It was somewhat saved at the end by Pete's reluctance to discuss it further.


    Speaking of big sister, Tracy, is this the first time we've heard of her? I was under the impression, with the way Myka's dad treated her and especially after the Edgar Allen Poe episode that Myka was an only child.


    Apparently Claudia is a virgin who's never even been on a date before. That was an interesting moment, but it really made sense, given her life and her past, she'd probably been so focused on her brother's situation for so much of her dating years that she never dated, not to mention the time she spent in the asylum. And her awkwardness on the date was really cute. A little cliche, but it played well.


    The moment at the end with Artie and Claudia in the diner, the whole thing about Artie being a father figure - another okay moment that was played just a wee bit heavy. I do like where the writers are taking some of these things, I just wish they didn't insist on beating me over the head when we have these moments - haven't they ever heard of the art of subtlety?


    And what was with Artie not being able to come in the room with old Myka? Was that just because the reality of one of his people truly being at risk just hit him at that moment, as he saw her lying there, or is there something deeper, like she reminded him of someone he lost, his mother or grandmother maybe? It just seemed like an odd moment that we really didn't get much hint as to a why. Which if there is a why and they were just being subtle, then I ask again why the other moments weren't?


    Lastly, we've yet again been shown a clean shot of Joanna's ankle tattoo, the other time being the Alice in Wonderland episode, Duped. It just seems kind of out-of-character for good girl Myka. Yes, I'm sure the tattoo is real, but we've seen it twice, with clearly no attempt to hide it and in fact, they almost seemed to be calling extra attention to it. I wonder if there will ever be a moment where the writers will explore that, even if just to have Myka relate a time she took off from college for a year and got wild, even got the tattoo yadda yadda yadda, but then realized that wasn't who she was so went back, finished school and joined the Secret Service.


    Oh, Joanna is not even remotely fat (only in her worst nightmares), and the actress they got to play the **** top model that the photographer was so hung up on, not even remotely attractive. She's supposed to be playing a supermodel - you couldn't find someone who looked hot enough to be convincing in the role? Okay, so you probably don't have the budget to get Charlize Theron. Was Morena Baccarin not available? She'd have been able to pull that character off in her sleep.


    Next week's episode looks like it's going to be interesting. In many ways, it looks like it might be a re-visiting of last season's Breakdown, when they discover Leena's inn inside the warehouse. Which won't be so bad, considering that was a fun episode, and there's so many corners within the warehouse they can explore, I don't mind it when they take a moment to do so. Just hopefully the writers will be creative enough that a basic premise that feels like a repeat only a season later will yield a totally fresh adventure within the warehouse.

    Edited on 07/27/2010 7:25pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dewbak75

    Dewbak75

    [5]Jul 28, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 1,105

    nolefan32 wrote:


    And what was with Artie not being able to come in the room with old Myka? Was that just because the reality of one of his people truly being at risk just hit him at that moment, as he saw her lying there, or is there something deeper, like she reminded him of someone he lost, his mother or grandmother maybe? It just seemed like an odd moment that we really didn't get much hint as to a why. Which if there is a why and they were just being subtle, then I ask again why the other moments weren't?


    ***


    Oh, Joanna is not even remotely fat (only in her worst nightmares), and the actress they got to play the **** top model that the photographer was so hung up on, not even remotely attractive. She's supposed to be playing a supermodel - you couldn't find someone who looked hot enough to be convincing in the role? Okay, so you probably don't have the budget to get Charlize Theron. Was Morena Baccarin not available? She'd have been able to pull that character off in her sleep.



    I think Artie's reluctance was just him being afraid of losing another person close to him because of his work with the Warehouse. Remember, it hasn't been that long since MacPherson died, who'd been Artie's friend for a long time even with everything that happened between them. And we know he's lost people on the job before. Now he's gotten close to his new team, probably moreso than in the past. These three are like family to him, and he's the dad.


    ***


    No, Joanne isn't remotely fat, but remember we're talking about Myka. Someone who's not used to seeing herself in much of a feminine way. And we're not talking about "normal" body image, we're talking about models and their insane body image standards. Put someone like Myka in an environment like that, and of course she's going to start feeling insecure.


    But I agree, the actress they got to play the jealous diva model really didn't look the part.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [6]Jul 28, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393
    Dewbak75 wrote:

    No, Joanne isn't remotely fat, but remember we're talking about Myka. Someone who's not used to seeing herself in much of a feminine way. And we're not talking about "normal" body image, we're talking about models and their insane body image standards. Put someone like Myka in an environment like that, and of course she's going to start feeling insecure.


    But I agree, the actress they got to play the jealous diva model really didn't look the part.

    I've gone to conventions and met actresses in person who I thought looked "normal" (by the standard of what we see on TV and in the movies), and found that the whole "camera adds five pounds" must really be more like the camera adds ten percent. Granted, these ladies were just as stunning in person as on TV or the movie screen, but they looked absolutely skinny in person - and it made me wonder about the ones that look skinny on TV to begin with. I'm afraid that if I ever had the privilege of meeting Calista Flockhart, Laura Flynn Boyle or Amy Acker, I might be tempted to pin them to the floor and force-feed them cheeseburgers.

    So I probably should have expounded a little on my original comment about Joanna not being fat. Yeah, you're right, runway models are ridiculously skinny. I've been actively involved in a weight-loss regimen for a while and I've been a little anal about tracking my weight through it - yesterday, my scale burped (turns out a switch I didn't know was on it had gotten flipped from pounds to kilos) and I went from more than 200 lbs to 93 "lbs" in one day - I joked to my friends that I was now qualified to be a runway model because of it. But back to the point - actresses suffer under the same ridiculous standards for what qualifies as "fat" as models do. So when I was saying that Joanna isn't fat, I didn't mean by normal human being standards like you or I, I meant by model/actress standards. I've not had the privilege of meeting her in person, but I do think that if I did, she'd be on cheeseburger force-feeding list. Not at the top, but she'd be on it.

    And every time they made that joke, and worse seeing Pete make "YES!" poses behind her, I would be reminded of watching one of those E! True Hollywood Stories about the TV show Growing Pains, and how Tracy Gold related how much they would include fat jokes about her character (and her, by extension), and how much it hurt. Tracy is one that though she was no Calista Flockhart, she still never looked any heavier than any other actress on TV (excluding the super-skinnies, like Calista, obviously), but the jokes still hurt, mostly because of the pressure she stayed under to stay skinny enough to be an actress. Myka, I think, could handle the ridicule on account of she's a "real" person, i.e., not a model or an actress; I felt bad for Joanna, because the joke felt really mean and it seemed to get meaner every time they cracked it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [7]Jul 28, 2010
    • member since: 03/22/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 429

    I like the way the main characters are rounding out their relationships with each other and are giving us some depth and definition. Myka and Pete play well off of each other and are building a comfort level where they can show affection without fear of it being misconstrued as a come on line. I just hope the writers don't try to set them up as a romantic couple down the road, as I believe this would be a huge mistake.


    Arties' reaction when he saw Myka in the hospital spoke volumes about how he cares for his team, and how emotionally vulnerable he is when it comes to seeing them in danger. I also like the way they're defining his role as a surrogate father for Claudia. Both of them clearly enjoy each others company, have much to offer each other, and gain from the relationship. Some may question how Claudia cold so readily accept Artie in this role, but having worked with young people who have experienced crisis and trauma, I see her behaviour as very credible for someone who has her history. The producers hit a home runwith adding her to the cast mix, and hope to see her grow along with the show for multiple seasons to come.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dewbak75

    Dewbak75

    [8]Jul 28, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 1,105

    nolefan32 wrote:
    Myka, I think, could handle the ridicule on account of she's a "real" person, i.e., not a model or an actress; I felt bad for Joanna, because the joke felt really mean and it seemed to get meaner every time they cracked it.


    I didn't feel sorry for Joanne, mostly because I think the episode made it pretty clear that the people saying she needed to lose some weight were "fashion" people with unrealistic standards. Plus, she had that big scene where she got to sit there while Eddie McClintock had the speech about how beautiful she is. So I'd say it's a fair trade

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [9]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    Dewbak75 wrote:
    No, Joanne isn't remotely fat, but remember we're talking about Myka. Someone who's not used to seeing herself in much of a feminine way. And we're not talking about "normal" body image, we're talking about models and their insane body image standards. Put someone like Myka in an environment like that, and of course she's going to start feeling insecure.


    It's been a very long time since I've seen the pilot, but when I first saw Myka come down the stairs, I thought immediately it would be a great throwback to the pilot in which she was all decked out in that short black dress, pumps, and hot red lipstick. They had that whole dress sequence which really seemed to emphasize Myka in an "I am Woman!" bold, feminine manner, including the gun strapped to her thigh just under the hem of the dress.


    I was actually surprised that Myka seemed insecure (I guess it has to do with the retconning so they could put in the part about Myka's sister - when we all thought she was an only child given the heavy implications that she was - always being the girly one), but I was able to chalk it off to the fact that she's not being just hot, sexy Myka, but that she was in an environment with ultra hot, sexy people who make a living on being "hot and sexy." Still though, the Myka of "Age Before Beauty" still seemed a far cry from the Myka who molested Pete's lips in the hallway and simultaneously pick pocketed him.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TankLike

    TankLike

    [10]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 05/21/10
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 101

    I don't really know what to think about this episode. It was entertaining without a doubt but some things simply doesn't add up:


    The whole Myka feeling insecure thing: Being a female secret service agent she should be used to being judged by people who think she's not good enough or there are other people who are better qualified for this job. So why would she even care what a few fashion-victim-douches might be thinking?
    I mean: I'm not very attractive (and I really DO weigh too much) but I do know I have some qualities and skills models or the average beautiful girl on the street propably doesn't have so I give a damn about how they might look at me. And from that experience - being good at something only few people can do - I'd think that she'd be easier on herself.
    But I'd suspect it would be impossible to set foot into this business at Myka's age. Only few models keep working after they become 30. So why would someone try to force "a new fresh face" into the business who's nearly that age?


    Then there's the whole Pete-Myka-pep-talk which was way over the top. Boosting her self esteem is one thing. But this was a little too much. And I'd really hate them to get together. I simply cannot see it!


    I really like the Artie/Claudia interactions. But I doubt that he would arrange a date for her. Most father's are more the protective parent when it comes to their "little girls". And while he's not really her father I'd expect him to act a little more careful when it comes to setting her up with someone he knows even less than he knows Claudia!

    Edited on 07/30/2010 1:31am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [11]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,074

    TankLike wrote:



    Then there's the whole Pete-Myka-pep-talk which was way over the top. Boosting her self esteem is one thing. But this was a little too much. And I'd really hate them to get together. I simply cannot see it!


    I really like the Artie/Claudia interactions. But I doubt that he would arrange a date for her. Most father's are more the protective parent when it comes to their "little girls". And while he's not really her father I'd expect him to act a little more careful when it comes to setting her up with someone he knows even less than he knows Claudia!



    There WAS talk, initially, about a romance between the two leads, but I think that has since died down. EM, during Comic-Con termed it as more of a brother/sister type of thing. I would agree that is what it has become. Although, why they had Myka try to return to the subject so determinedly makes it a little suspicious. Maybe she's developing a little crush on Pete. However, it doesn't seem to bother her when Pete flirts with other women. I still think he's going to hook up with the vet in Univille. At Comic-Con, one of the questions most often asked was would there eventually be a hook-up between Pete and Myka. So, there are at least some fans who would like to see that. I thought Pete would have hooked up with Leena by now, since she originally found him attractive and kept hanging around near him. I like Leena; those "girls" are certainly eye-catching.


    Artie setting up Claudia while a bit odd, odder still is the fact that she's a virgin and has never dated. Perhaps he just wants her to experience life a bit more considering how dangerous their jobs are. I think Artie senses that he could trust Todd to not hurt Claudia

    Edited on 07/29/2010 3:45pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [12]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393
    Well, it seems the verdict is in - the writers knocked pretty much everybody for a loop by bringing up "Tracy" out of nowhere.

    Now that I've had time to process it, it's possible that Myka could have a sister. It's been insinuated that she was an only child, but as I recall, all that really was said was that she had no brothers, even though the bookstore is Bering and Sons, and apparently Dad wanted her to be a boy. It's possible that Dad was okay with having one daughter, but he really wanted Myka to be a boy so they could have one child to carry on the family name. Hence why Tracy was the outgoing cheerleader, the one allowed to be a girl, and Myka, for as much as she stayed in the bookstore and tried to make her dad proud of her, kept coming up short on account of her lack of a Y chromosome.

    And in the episode where Myka's dad was infected by the artifact, it's possible that Mom called Myka because Myka was always the dependable one, the "good girl". And Tracy, given her popularity in her youth, is likely married with kids, and thus can't get away as easily, or so the parents may think (really, Myka with her career as an agent is the one that shouldn't have been able to drop everything and run as easy).

    I think the part that bothered me most was Pete knowing about Tracy. He says her name like we should be already aware of her existence as well, even though she's never been mentioned on the show. Sure, Pete and Myka have had conversations we weren't privy to, but critical ones, we should have been in on, like that one. That scene would have played better had Pete been as much in the dark about Myka having a sister as we were - let it be the chance for Myka to explain about why she doesn't talk about her sister, why Tracy wasn't the one called back when Dad was sick, etc. Then I think it would have flowed a lot better. Instead, we were all "WTF!?"

    The writers on this show are pretty good, but they really mucked up that particular moment if you ask me.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [13]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    There WAS talk, initially, about a romance between the two leads, but I think that has since died down. EM, during Comic-Con termed it as more of a brother/sister type of thing. I would agree that is what it has become. Although, why they had Myka try to return to the subject so determinedly makes it a little suspicious. Maybe she's developing a little crush on Pete.


    As someone who hasn't seen anything from Comic-Con nor has seen any outside interviews, I've thought they would eventually head towards the typical partner romance since that first pilot kiss and the latest episode only reinforced that. Even viewing the relationship again with knowledge of someone saying it's brother-sister like, I can't fathom how that could be.


    nolefan32 wrote:
    The writers on this show are pretty good, but they really mucked up that particular moment if you ask me.


    After I watched that, I thought they threw in the sister part just for the sole purpose of creating that moment between Myka and Pete, which seemed a little forced. Not that I didn't enjoy the sentiment of it, but Tracy really did appear out of nowhere. Whichmakes me even less likely to believe that they really have no plans to make Pete and Myka romantic down the road.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dewbak75

    Dewbak75

    [14]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 06/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 1,105

    Princess_Pinky wrote:


    Dewbak75 wrote:
    No, Joanne isn't remotely fat, but remember we're talking about Myka. Someone who's not used to seeing herself in much of a feminine way. And we're not talking about "normal" body image, we're talking about models and their insane body image standards. Put someone like Myka in an environment like that, and of course she's going to start feeling insecure.


    It's been a very long time since I've seen the pilot, but when I first saw Myka come down the stairs, I thought immediately it would be a great throwback to the pilot in which she was all decked out in that short black dress, pumps, and hot red lipstick. They had that whole dress sequence which really seemed to emphasize Myka in an "I am Woman!" bold, feminine manner, including the gun strapped to her thigh just under the hem of the dress.


    I was actually surprised that Myka seemed insecure (I guess it has to do with the retconning so they could put in the part about Myka's sister - when we all thought she was an only child given the heavy implications that she was - always being the girly one), but I was able to chalk it off to the fact that she's not being just hot, sexy Myka, but that she was in an environment with ultra hot, sexy people who make a living on being "hot and sexy." Still though, the Myka of "Age Before Beauty" still seemed a far cry from the Myka who molested Pete's lips in the hallway and simultaneously pick pocketed him.



    Do you mean when they were in Vegas, in "Duped"? If so, that wasn't Myka, remember? The real Myka was trapped in Lewis Carrol's mirror, that was Alice who planted one on Pete.


    As for why Myka seemed confident in the pilot when she was all glammed up, I don't think it's inconsistent. In the pilot, Myka wasn't there to look pretty and stand out. She was in formal attire so she could blend in. In many ways, it was the opposite of what she had to do in this episode.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [15]Jul 29, 2010
    • member since: 09/28/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 1,073

    nolefan32 wrote:
    Well, it seems the verdict is in - the writers knocked pretty much everybody for a loop by bringing up "Tracy" out of nowhere.

    Now that I've had time to process it, it's possible that Myka could have a sister. It's been insinuated that she was an only child, but as I recall, all that really was said was that she had no brothers, even though the bookstore is Bering and Sons, and apparently Dad wanted her to be a boy. It's possible that Dad was okay with having one daughter, but he really wanted Myka to be a boy so they could have one child to carry on the family name. Hence why Tracy was the outgoing cheerleader, the one allowed to be a girl, and Myka, for as much as she stayed in the bookstore and tried to make her dad proud of her, kept coming up short on account of her lack of a Y chromosome.

    And in the episode where Myka's dad was infected by the artifact, it's possible that Mom called Myka because Myka was always the dependable one, the "good girl". And Tracy, given her popularity in her youth, is likely married with kids, and thus can't get away as easily, or so the parents may think (really, Myka with her career as an agent is the one that shouldn't have been able to drop everything and run as easy).


    I just rewatched "Nevermore" to refresh my memory and this is a line Myka read out of her father's book:


    :
    ...for her, for his daughter. She was his life. His only job now was keeping her safe.


    I suppose this could mean one of a couple things, depending on which part of the book Myka was reading from:


    1. He was talking about Tracy, before Myka was born.


    2. He was talking about Myka, before Tracy was born.


    3. He was talking about Myka, after Tracy's death.


    The idea that Tracy was the firstborn and their father expected a boy afterwards and instead got Myka is what seems most likely to me as well and since we were lead to believe that it was Myka herself who she was reading about in that line, I'm kind of leaning away from the idea that it was number one. (Not that it still couldn't be, but symbolically, it would take a lot away from the relationship hurdle that Myka and her father got over in that episode if we found out that line was really about Tracy and not Myka.)


    When the line was first read, I think the authorial intent was to have the audience assume after Myka's birth, he felt the new love of a father and felt that his sole duty was to keep her safe. But now that it's canon that Myka has a sister,"daughter" instead of "daughters"just doesn't make that much sense unless Myka was the firstborn. If that's the case, then I would guess that their father "resented" her more for being a girl because he was hoping for a boy and then by the time Tracy was born, he allowed her to be the girly girl that she wanted, while Myka (feeling the pressure of being the first born and first "disappointment" as a non-boy) continued to try and please him her whole life.


    Personally, however, I'm still leaning towards the idea that Tracy died young, which wouldbe the only other reason I can think of for why her father suddenly felt more compelled than ever to keep his only living daughter (and child in general) safe. It also makes sense with why Tracy didn't appear in "Nevermore" and, I think - though I'm not positive - that Myka had also said something to the effect of "it's only me" when Pete questioned her about "Bering & Sons," and if Myka is an only child (and has been for a while), that statement also makes a little more sense.


    nolefan32 wrote:
    I think the part that bothered me most was Pete knowing about Tracy. He says her name like we should be already aware of her existence as well, even though she's never been mentioned on the show. Sure, Pete and Myka have had conversations we weren't privy to, but critical ones, we should have been in on, like that one. That scene would have played better had Pete been as much in the dark about Myka having a sister as we were - let it be the chance for Myka to explain about why she doesn't talk about her sister, why Tracy wasn't the one called back when Dad was sick, etc. Then I think it would have flowed a lot better. Instead, we were all "WTF!?"


    I agree. Obviously the characters are going to "have lives" off screen, but that piece of information was pretty huge and it should not have been something Pete was privy to "off screen." I respect the art of twists, but I prefer them when I can look back and be like, "I should've seen that coming this whole time!" Those are the most crafty ones, IMHO. Ones that come out of nowhere like this...they're either fantastic or they flop.

    Edited on 07/29/2010 8:45pm
    Edited 3 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TankLike

    TankLike

    [16]Jul 30, 2010
    • member since: 05/21/10
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 101

    Jacks_Son wrote:


    Artie setting up Claudia while a bit odd, odder still is the fact that she's a virgin and has never dated. Perhaps he just wants her to experience life a bit more considering how dangerous their jobs are. I think Artie senses that he could trust Todd to not hurt Claudia



    I forgot how old Claudia is. But she can't be much older than 20. And while the age the kids have their first time seems to decrease every year, being 20 and a virgin isn't THAT odd.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [17]Jul 30, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393

    TankLike wrote:


    Jacks_Son wrote:


    Artie setting up Claudia while a bit odd, odder still is the fact that she's a virgin and has never dated. Perhaps he just wants her to experience life a bit more considering how dangerous their jobs are. I think Artie senses that he could trust Todd to not hurt Claudia



    I forgot how old Claudia is. But she can't be much older than 20. And while the age the kids have their first time seems to decrease every year, being 20 and a virgin isn't THAT odd.


    I agree with you age-wise, being a virgin in your early 20s isn't that odd (and I think Artie said something about her still being a teenager in this episode, so I'm guessing she's even younger, more like 18 or 19). I think the part of why it seems odd has to do with how confident and out-going she normally seems, so it kind of comes as a surprise when we find out. And we also know enough about her to know it's not because she's uber-religious or a "good girl" that doesn't do stuff like that.


    But I do think it fits with the character that boys would be an area where she's completely ill-equipped; all the years she should have been dating and getting comfortable with that routine, she spent trying to get her brother out of that other dimension, or locked up in the asylum. So it's reasonable that it would be an area where her growth has been severely stunted.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [18]Jul 30, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393

    Princess_Pinky wrote:


    nolefan32 wrote:
    Well, it seems the verdict is in - the writers knocked pretty much everybody for a loop by bringing up "Tracy" out of nowhere.

    Now that I've had time to process it, it's possible that Myka could have a sister. It's been insinuated that she was an only child, but as I recall, all that really was said was that she had no brothers, even though the bookstore is Bering and Sons, and apparently Dad wanted her to be a boy. It's possible that Dad was okay with having one daughter, but he really wanted Myka to be a boy so they could have one child to carry on the family name. Hence why Tracy was the outgoing cheerleader, the one allowed to be a girl, and Myka, for as much as she stayed in the bookstore and tried to make her dad proud of her, kept coming up short on account of her lack of a Y chromosome.

    And in the episode where Myka's dad was infected by the artifact, it's possible that Mom called Myka because Myka was always the dependable one, the "good girl". And Tracy, given her popularity in her youth, is likely married with kids, and thus can't get away as easily, or so the parents may think (really, Myka with her career as an agent is the one that shouldn't have been able to drop everything and run as easy).


    I just rewatched "Nevermore" to refresh my memory and this is a line Myka read out of her father's book:


    :
    ...for her, for his daughter. She was his life. His only job now was keeping her safe.


    I suppose this could mean one of a couple things, depending on which part of the book Myka was reading from:


    1. He was talking about Tracy, before Myka was born.


    2. He was talking about Myka, before Tracy was born.


    3. He was talking about Myka, after Tracy's death.


    The idea that Tracy was the firstborn and their father expected a boy afterwards and instead got Myka is what seems most likely to me as well and since we were lead to believe that it was Myka herself who she was reading about in that line, I'm kind of leaning away from the idea that it was number one. (Not that it still couldn't be, but symbolically, it would take a lot away from the relationship hurdle that Myka and her father got over in that episode if we found out that line was really about Tracy and not Myka.)


    When the line was first read, I think the authorial intent was to have the audience assume after Myka's birth, he felt the new love of a father and felt that his sole duty was to keep her safe. But now that it's canon that Myka has a sister,"daughter" instead of "daughters"just doesn't make that much sense unless Myka was the firstborn. If that's the case, then I would guess that their father "resented" her more for being a girl because he was hoping for a boy and then by the time Tracy was born, he allowed her to be the girly girl that she wanted, while Myka (feeling the pressure of being the first born and first "disappointment" as a non-boy) continued to try and please him her whole life.


    Personally, however, I'm still leaning towards the idea that Tracy died young, which wouldbe the only other reason I can think of for why her father suddenly felt more compelled than ever to keep his only living daughter (and child in general) safe. It also makes sense with why Tracy didn't appear in "Nevermore" and, I think - though I'm not positive - that Myka had also said something to the effect of "it's only me" when Pete questioned her about "Bering & Sons," and if Myka is an only child (and has been for a while), that statement also makes a little more sense.


    nolefan32 wrote:
    I think the part that bothered me most was Pete knowing about Tracy. He says her name like we should be already aware of her existence as well, even though she's never been mentioned on the show. Sure, Pete and Myka have had conversations we weren't privy to, but critical ones, we should have been in on, like that one. That scene would have played better had Pete been as much in the dark about Myka having a sister as we were - let it be the chance for Myka to explain about why she doesn't talk about her sister, why Tracy wasn't the one called back when Dad was sick, etc. Then I think it would have flowed a lot better. Instead, we were all "WTF!?"


    I agree. Obviously the characters are going to "have lives" off screen, but that piece of information was pretty huge and it should not have been something Pete was privy to "off screen." I respect the art of twists, but I prefer them when I can look back and be like, "I should've seen that coming this whole time!" Those are the most crafty ones, IMHO. Ones that come out of nowhere like this...they're either fantastic or they flop.


    I think you're right on a lot of this. I don't know why, but it seemed like when Tracy came up, the way Myka spoke of her was the envy of a little sister toward a big sister, hence why I and others assumed she was probably the older sister. But then that wouldn't fit with the book being written for his daughter (non-plural). So she's probably younger, because the book seemed like something very old, which the dad wouldn't have written after Tracy's death but before her birth.


    The comment about "just me" (I need to pull out the pilot and re-watch it this weekend) does suggest that Tracy's dead, but to be honest, I'm not getting that vibe. The writers brought her up, I can't help but to think she's going to be significant this season at some point, just like Myka's last partner, her parents and Pete's dad all proved to be last season (the other family member referenced that we've not had prove significant yet are Pete's deaf sister and Artie's dad - which I'm starting to think the writers completely forgot about). It will be curious to see how it plays out, but if it turns out the only reason Tracy was even brought up was just to set up Pete's speech about how beautiful Myka is, then the writing in that scene is even more atrocious than I gave the writers credit for.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [19]Jul 30, 2010
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,074

    nolefan32 wrote:


    TankLike wrote:


    Jacks_Son wrote:


    Artie setting up Claudia while a bit odd, odder still is the fact that she's a virgin and has never dated. Perhaps he just wants her to experience life a bit more considering how dangerous their jobs are. I think Artie senses that he could trust Todd to not hurt Claudia



    I forgot how old Claudia is. But she can't be much older than 20. And while the age the kids have their first time seems to decrease every year, being 20 and a virgin isn't THAT odd.


    I agree with you age-wise, being a virgin in your early 20s isn't that odd (and I think Artie said something about her still being a teenager in this episode, so I'm guessing she's even younger, more like 18 or 19). I think the part of why it seems odd has to do with how confident and out-going she normally seems, so it kind of comes as a surprise when we find out. And we also know enough about her to know it's not because she's uber-religious or a "good girl" that doesn't do stuff like that.


    But I do think it fits with the character that boys would be an area where she's completely ill-equipped; all the years she should have been dating and getting comfortable with that routine, she spent trying to get her brother out of that other dimension, or locked up in the asylum. So it's reasonable that it would be an area where her growth has been severely stunted.



    Artie called her a woman, not a teenager. He said, "I assumed, being a woman.....".

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nolefan32

    nolefan32

    [20]Jul 30, 2010
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 393

    Jacks_Son wrote:


    nolefan32 wrote:


    TankLike wrote:


    Jacks_Son wrote:


    Artie setting up Claudia while a bit odd, odder still is the fact that she's a virgin and has never dated. Perhaps he just wants her to experience life a bit more considering how dangerous their jobs are. I think Artie senses that he could trust Todd to not hurt Claudia



    I forgot how old Claudia is. But she can't be much older than 20. And while the age the kids have their first time seems to decrease every year, being 20 and a virgin isn't THAT odd.


    I agree with you age-wise, being a virgin in your early 20s isn't that odd (and I think Artie said something about her still being a teenager in this episode, so I'm guessing she's even younger, more like 18 or 19). I think the part of why it seems odd has to do with how confident and out-going she normally seems, so it kind of comes as a surprise when we find out. And we also know enough about her to know it's not because she's uber-religious or a "good girl" that doesn't do stuff like that.


    But I do think it fits with the character that boys would be an area where she's completely ill-equipped; all the years she should have been dating and getting comfortable with that routine, she spent trying to get her brother out of that other dimension, or locked up in the asylum. So it's reasonable that it would be an area where her growth has been severely stunted.



    Artie called her a woman, not a teenager. He said, "I assumed, being a woman.....".


    Yeah, there was that line, but there was another point in the conversation at the end of the episode when he says something about forgetting that she was just a teenager, i.e., she's so integrated into the team that he sees her as much older. I don't recall the exact wording of the quote - I'll rewatch it tonight when I get a chance.


    Of course, I also thought that H.G. Wells referred to her brother as "George". To paraphrase Jayne Cobb, what I think happened and what actually did happen ain't always exactly similar.

    Edited on 07/30/2010 9:47am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.