We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Warehouse 13 Forums

Syfy (ended 2014)

Official Discussion Thread: Nevermore (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Sep 14, 2009
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 104
    • rank: Warrior Princess
    • posts: 23,887
    Pleae direct all general and specific discussion of the 9/15/09 episode "Nevermore" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Carycomic

    Carycomic

    [3]Sep 15, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 604
    This episode had me (almost literally) on the edge of my seat, for the full sixty minutes. To call it "pivotal" would be an understatement. Definitely a perfect ten!
    Edited on 09/15/2009 7:35pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Dewbak75

    Dewbak75

    [4]Sep 16, 2009
    • member since: 06/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 1,105

    Poe was definitely a good choice for the inspiration of an artifact, although I think it would've been better if more of the things the boy did with the pen were related to Poe's works(they do get points for the shoutout to the Cask Of Amontillado, though). And it was nice to see Claudia get some field time with Pete & Myka. My only real complaint about the episode was it seems they've "fixed" Myka's relationship with her father much too quickly. They established the dysfunction of that relationship early in the season(back in "Resonance", iirc), but we barely got to see any of that dysfunction once her parents actually came on screen. Michael Hogan can do gruff & insufferable hardcase better than most actors, but he didn't really get a chance.

    Oh, and I'm really glad Jack The Ripper's artifact was a lantern and not something more closely tied to slicing people's guts open, that could've been very gross.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [5]Sep 16, 2009
    • member since: 02/23/08
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 3,925
    Dewbak75 wrote:

    Poe was definitely a good choice for the inspiration of an artifact, although I think it would've been better if more of the things the boy did with the pen were related to Poe's works(they do get points for the shoutout to the Cask Of Amontillado, though).



    The theme, the storyline and all about this episode was fantastic. I believe everything was closely related to Poe works. The wall part is a close reference to The Cask Of Amontillado just like it was shouted. Say "walls lined with human remains" plus more. The pendulum, well that is a direct reference to The Pit And The Pendulum. The fire, there I am a bit lost as to what actual work it is referred since there are many references to fire in Poe's works. Maybe The Devil In The Belfry, I do not know.

    It was nice twist to have an artifact with parts that complement each other, and I wonder to what evil use will it be put to.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of StaffInfection

    StaffInfection

    [7]Sep 16, 2009
    • member since: 02/21/07
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 17
    This is definitely my favorite episode, so far, and it's great to see Michael "Battlestar Galactica" Hogan again.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kalel18

    Kalel18

    [8]Sep 16, 2009
    • member since: 05/01/09
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 771

    Once upon a warehouse dreary, Artie pondered, bleak and weary
    over many a dangerous artifact and esoteric lore
    While he nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a rapping,
    As of someone angrily rapping, rapping at his office door.
    "Tis some intruder," he muttered, "rapping at my office door - only this and probably more."

    ...into the parlor returning, Artie, with a tray of tea and turning,
    there sat not Leena but the regent, angrier than before.
    "I swear on the ashes of the first twelve warehouses, I'll take them away."
    Quoth the regent "Evermore."
    She disappeared, said nothing more.

    ...and McPhearson, never quitting, still is standing, still is standing
    in the pallid light, just inside the Bering's door,
    and his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is screaming,
    and the lanternlight o'er them streaming, throws their shadows on the floor

    The traitor, malevolent, full of lust, spoke only
    that one word, as if his soul in that one word he did outpour.
    "Artifact." Something further then he muttered, "or death, your father, and your mother."
    Myka scarcely more than muttered, "a loan, nothing more."
    Wakeful returning, traitor vanished, and all hopes have flown before.

    Quoth the Regent, "Nevermore." - with apologies to E.A.P.

    O.K. that didn't work out quite as planned. If I had attempted a complete recap of the episode to the lyric of The Raven, as planned, this thread would have been relegated to the Warehouse dustbin, sometime during season two, long before I finished. Poetry is not my strongsuit.

    Just a few random musings for now.

    I enjoyed the episode quite a bit. It was a great lead-in to the season finale, which I await with bated breath.

    How about Mrs. Fredric! We have all talked about her appearing/disappearing act, but now there can no longer be any doubt. The only question is how - via artifact or willpower? If it's via artifact, I'm guessing it has something to do with the "Scarab" brooch she is usually wearing.

    What is the connection between Mrs. F and Leena??? Artie was shocked to find Mrs. F in the parlor, when Leena had been there a moment earlier. I think there is some kind of duality there - different aspects of the same person - whatever. Or just a psychic connection, I don't know. But, the only time they ever appeared in the same location/scene (to my knowledge) was at the end of Implosion, when Leena is down in the warehouse with Pete and Myka, after recovering the samuri sword. Mrs. F is seen in the office with Artie, where Artie was watching the goings-on in the warehouse. She is peering over his shoulder, and they are having a discussion about the trust issue. What if Artie wasn't watching the events in the warehouse as they ocurred, but is, instead, watching a recording? That would account for the two seemingly being in two places at the same time, and allow for the possibility of the notion of them being one and the same. Sounds crazy, but we have already seen a lot of crazy stuff on the show, so...?

    I loved Pete's remark to Myka: There's something else - I think I'm hot for your mom. And Myka: I'll break it to dad.

    I'll be back. I know there is much to talk about!

    Edited on 09/16/2009 5:53pm
    Edited 4 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [9]Sep 16, 2009
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,477
    Kalel18 wrote:

    I think there is some kind of duality there - different aspects of the same person - whatever. Or just a psychic connection, I don't know. But, the only time they ever appeared in the same location/scene (to my knowledge) was at the end of Implosion, when Leena is down in the warehouse with Pete and Myka, after recovering the samuri sword. Mrs. F is seen in the office with Artie, where Artie was watching the goings-on in the warehouse. She is peering over his shoulder, and they are having a discussion about the trust issue. What if Artie wasn't watching the events in the warehouse as they ocurred, but is, instead, watching a recording? That would account for the two seemingly being in two places at the same time, and allow for the possibility of the notion of them being one and the same. Sounds crazy, but we have already seen a lot of crazy stuff on the show, so...?

    Hey Kalell, how are you? Great attempt at Warehouse 13 Poetry. Proud of you!

    To my knowledge, Mrs. F and Leena have never appeared at the same time. There are two things that come to mind to support your thought. One, this show doesn't waste too many scenes and words. Everything seems like it has a meaning or refers to a future occurrence. Keeping that in mind, for the first time, Mrs. F appeared in a place where someone else was supposed to be. Makes you wonder, where did Leena go? Why didn't Artie see Leena walk out? You would assume Artie was not gone very long as he was talking to Leena as he entered the room and it seemed like he was in the middle of a continuous conversation started with Leena when he was previously in the same room. Two, at the end of Implosion, there was nothing stated or shown to confirm that Mrs. F and Artie's observation of the conversation between Pete, Myka, and Leena in occurred in "real" time. That conversation could have occurred several minutes prior to Mrs. F and Artie's perusal. It just seems odd, that the conversation would just happen to occur while Mrs. F and Artie are by the monitors and they would happen to just listen in. I don't know if this means that there is a connection between Mrs. F and Leena and what that connection may be, but, I must admit that it seems like the writers have not allowed these two women to appear in the same room....(for a reason).

    On another note, I too await the season finale with baited breath. Also, there are three things that have peaked my curiosity that was alluded to in Nevermore. One, Myka told MacPherson that he crossed the line by going for family. MacPherson replied, "Artie did it first." When Myka questioned him, he said, "Ask him." (Artie). What was that all about? Is MacPherson justified for his obvious hatred of Artie? Which family member did Artie go for? Hmmmm...Second, the trailer stated that there would be betrayal, and it seemed like they showed Leena when it was stated. Will Leena betray Myka and Pete? Will Claudia betray Myka and Pete? Finally, we saw in Nevermore that Macpherson had Jack The Ripper's Lantern. What other Artifacts does Macpherson have? Does he have any Artifact that is so dangerous it should be in the dark room in Warehouse 13? I guess we gotta keep watching and stay tuned.

    Edited on 09/16/2009 9:11pm
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of thetruesora

    thetruesora

    [10]Sep 17, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/04
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 6,286
    I'm guessing Artie going after Mcpherson's family (or whatever event he was referring to that Artie did it first) will be explained next episode.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lynna12000

    lynna12000

    [11]Sep 17, 2009
    • member since: 01/19/08
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 2,437
    MacPherson could have been referring to the woman that neither he nor Artie had seen in 15 years.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of amaryllis88

    amaryllis88

    [12]Sep 17, 2009
    • member since: 10/01/08
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 2,516

    Oooh, this was a great episode! And I love Poe stuff, the pen was really intriguing, I'd like to know how the two were separated, the pen and the book. Did Artie have the book but not the pen? Obviously, since the pen was in a glass case at the college, but how'd the college get the pen? Or it was that professor who collected things like that? Did MacPhearson take the book from the Warehouse, and mail it to Myka's father? The two seemed to work independently of one another, but they needed each other? I'm talkin' about the pen and the book.

    It was Poe's spirit in the pen that influenced the guy to do the things he did? I know he just wrote a word on a piece of paper, and once the person said it, that was it. Was it Poe's words that were emanating from the glass enclosure?

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    One, Myka told MacPherson that he crossed the line by going for family. MacPherson replied, "Artie did it first." When Myka questioned him, he said, "Ask him." (Artie). What was that all about?

    I'm quite curious about that. Supposedly, Artie went after Claudia's brother, and we all saw that it ended well, I'm wondering what kind of a reunion there will be at the end of this season, if there'll be one. I'd like to know what Artie did, and maybe he doesn't even know he did it.

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    Is MacPherson justified for his obvious hatred of Artie? Which family member did Artie go for? Hmmmm...Second, the trailer stated that there would be betrayal, and it seemed like they showed Leena when it was stated. Will Leena betray Myka and Pete? Will Claudia betray Myka and Pete?

    I'm thinking the betrayal will be either Claudia or Leena, although the way editors splice images together, they could lead you to believe it was somebody you'd least expect, and then it turns out to be somebody else entirely. I've learned from watching Hell's Kitchen, that the editors like to mess with the audience.

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    Finally, we saw in Nevermore that Macpherson had Jack The Ripper's Lantern. What other Artifacts does Macpherson have? Does he have any Artifact that is so dangerous it should be in the dark room in Warehouse 13?

    I loved Jack the Ripper's Lantern, that was a really cool artifact, and almost gives the whole story a new element. I'm pretty sure if Macpherson was able to get inside the Warehouse, he can do so again, and take whatever artifact he so pleases, and auction it off to the highest bidder. People would love to have artifacts like those! And what's to stop him from going inside the vault?

    Kalel18 wrote:
    O.K. that didn't work out quite as planned. If I had attempted a complete recap of the episode to the lyric of The Raven, as planned, this thread would have been relegated to the Warehouse dustbin, sometime during season two, long before I finished. Poetry is not my strongsuit.

    Kalel18 that was really awesome, I loved your poem!!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [13]Sep 17, 2009
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,477
    amaryllis88 wrote:

    Did Artie have the book but not the pen? Obviously, since the pen was in a glass case at the college, but how'd the college get the pen? Or it was that professor who collected things like that? Did MacPhearson take the book from the Warehouse, and mail it to Myka's father? The two seemed to work independently of one another, but they needed each other? I'm talkin' about the pen and the book.

    It was Poe's spirit in the pen that influenced the guy to do the things he did? I know he just wrote a word on a piece of paper, and once the person said it, that was it. Was it Poe's words that were emanating from the glass enclosure?

    Hi Amaryllis88, I will try to answer all of your questions. Artie did not have the book nor the pen. MacPherson had the book and mailed it to Myka's dad. The University/College had the pen behind the glass. It is quite common for Universities to receive literary donations from deceased writers estates, families, and benefactors. To my knowledge, it was never stated where Macpherson got the book from. Artie told Myka, Pete, and Claudia after the neutralizer didn't work on the book, that they were dealing with a bifurcated artifact. He also said that the artifact had at least two parts and were dependent upon each other. Also, you can assume that it was Poe's words emanating from the glass enclosure.

    amaryllis88 wrote:

    I'm quite curious about that. Supposedly, Artie went after Claudia's brother, and we all saw that it ended well, I'm wondering what kind of a reunion there will be at the end of this season, if there'll be one. I'd like to know what Artie did, and maybe he doesn't even know he did it.

    I think Artie knows exactly what he did and regrets it. I got that impression when Myka said that MacPherson was playing them from the beginning and Artie said, "No, he was playing me." Artie feels it's all about him and it makes you wonder about MacPherson's connection to Warehouse 13 and/or the other 12 Warehouses. Did Artie and MacPherson once work together? Were they once friends? I can't wait to find out...

    amaryllis88 wrote:

    I'm thinking the betrayal will be either Claudia or Leena, although the way editors splice images together, they could lead you to believe it was somebody you'd least expect, and then it turns out to be somebody else entirely. I've learned from watching Hell's Kitchen, that the editors like to mess with the audience.

    I totally agree. They are both the two most obvious candidates. However, it could be anybody if somehow utilizes an artifact that can manipulate someone. I learned to keep my mind open for betrayal after seeing the Season Finale of "Sanctuary".

    amaryllis88 wrote:

    I loved Jack the Ripper's Lantern, that was a really cool artifact, and almost gives the whole story a new element. I'm pretty sure if Macpherson was able to get inside the Warehouse, he can do so again, and take whatever artifact he so pleases, and auction it off to the highest bidder. People would love to have artifacts like those! And what's to stop him from going inside the vault?

    I would love to see MacPherson's vault. He must have a storage place as well.

    amaryllis88 wrote:

    Kalel18 that was really awesome, I loved your poem!

    I do have a background with poetry and Kalell8's poem was awesome. Great job!!!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of amaryllis88

    amaryllis88

    [14]Sep 18, 2009
    • member since: 10/01/08
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 2,516

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    I totally agree. They are both the two most obvious candidates. However, it could be anybody if somehow utilizes an artifact that can manipulate someone. I learned to keep my mind open for betrayal after seeing the Season Finale of "Sanctuary".

    I'm a fan of Sanctuary as well, and I know what you mean! Definitely kinda caught off guard with that one. It'd definitely be a twist if it's somebody we haven't actually met yet at the Warehouse, but then again, things get juicier if it's somebody we already know.

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    Hi Amaryllis88, I will try to answer all of your questions. Artie did not have the book nor the pen. MacPherson had the book and mailed it to Myka's dad. The University/College had the pen behind the glass. It is quite common for Universities to receive literary donations from deceased writers estates, families, and benefactors. To my knowledge, it was never stated where Macpherson got the book from. Artie told Myka, Pete, and Claudia after the neutralizer didn't work on the book, that they were dealing with a bifurcated artifact.

    Hello! Thanks for the explanations. Why was it the troubled kid who heard the sounds from the cabinet, and not anybody else? I know he was the "chosen one," that was always getting picked on, I wonder if the pen chooses who's mind it'll infiltrate, I guess from the vibes around the cabinet, not sure, but I did notice how he seemed to be the only one who heard the sounds. I'm guessing that whoever handled the pen/ink, and placed it inside the cabinet, didn't feel the "vibes" from the artifact, and then it had time to wallow inside its enclosure until it found the right person?

    I do like the whole idea behind the pen/ink, and book, that was quite cool, and it's refreshing to see new twists and turns on stories from the past.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [15]Sep 18, 2009
    • member since: 06/14/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,477

    amaryllis88 wrote:
    Hello! Thanks for the explanations. Why was it the troubled kid who heard the sounds from the cabinet, and not anybody else? I know he was the "chosen one," that was always getting picked on, I wonder if the pen chooses who's mind it'll infiltrate, I guess from the vibes around the cabinet, not sure, but I did notice how he seemed to be the only one who heard the sounds. I'm guessing that whoever handled the pen/ink, and placed it inside the cabinet, didn't feel the "vibes" from the artifact, and then it had time to wallow inside its enclosure until it found the right person?

    Hey amaryllis, you took the words right out of my thoughts. Most of Edgar A. Poe's life was troubled. His parents died when he was young, his wife died of tuberculosis, and he died mysteriously. It makes sense for the pen to search out a poor troubled kid out of "familiarity" and/or ease of mind infiltration. Following that same track of thinking, one will assume that whomever handled the pen/ink and placed it inside the cabinet probably had a mind that was difficult to infiltrate and less troubled. Also, Kudos to the writers for once again tying someone from our history to an artifact in a brilliant way.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of luvinx

    luvinx

    [16]Sep 21, 2009
    • member since: 08/24/07
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 4,251

    Late to the party....as usual. You guys have covered things so well. One thing that I wanted to mention. Did I or did I not hear in this ep or the last that MacPherson was actually Artie's partner?

    Also, I believe that there is a 'connection' between Leena and Mrs. F. as well. It seems that the writers have gone out of their way a little too much to make that impression.

    Can't wait for the finale.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [17]Sep 21, 2009
    • member since: 03/22/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 429
    luvinx wrote:

    Did I or did I not hear in this ep or the last that MacPherson was actually Artie's partner?

    Also, I believe that there is a 'connection' between Leena and Mrs. F. as well. It seems that the writers have gone out of their way a little too much to make that impression.

    Yes, you did hear it correctly, MacPherson was referred to as Artie's "partner." What that means exactly I'm not sure but there it is.

    I don't know if Mrs. Frederic can somehow warp the space/time continuum and appear only to those she wants to, or she is Leena in a different form. The latter has much plausibility as this would explain how she seems to have a direct pipeline into the daily goings on. Or maybe Leena uses her sixth sense to know when to conveniently make herself scarce and out of the line of fire.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [18]Sep 22, 2009
    • member since: 04/30/05
    • level: 46
    • rank: Lothar of the Hill People
    • posts: 11,215
    Good episode once again an interesting cultural point of reference and seeing Michael Hogan again and I only transposed his words with frack once real proud of myself. I think Leena and Mrs.F are the same person as well now and don't get why it hasn't been addressed yet.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of thetruesora

    thetruesora

    [19]Sep 26, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/04
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 6,286
    MacPherson worked with Artie collecting artifacts before he got his own ideas and went against Artie.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of nopperabo

    nopperabo

    [20]Sep 27, 2009
    • member since: 05/26/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 394
    haldrey wrote:
    Dewbak75 wrote:

    Poe was definitely a good choice for the inspiration of an artifact, although I think it would've been better if more of the things the boy did with the pen were related to Poe's works(they do get points for the shoutout to the Cask Of Amontillado, though).



    The theme, the storyline and all about this episode was fantastic. I believe everything was closely related to Poe works. The wall part is a close reference to The Cask Of Amontillado just like it was shouted. Say "walls lined with human remains" plus more. The pendulum, well that is a direct reference to The Pit And The Pendulum. The fire, there I am a bit lost as to what actual work it is referred since there are many references to fire in Poe's works. Maybe The Devil In The Belfry, I do not know.

    It was nice twist to have an artifact with parts that complement each other, and I wonder to what evil use will it be put to.


    There's another, slightly less obvios Poe referece. When the hear the pounding in the wall and are speculating on what it is, Claudi says "Rat in the walls?" a fairly obvios refence to "The Rats in the Walls", by H.P. Lovecraft. Most of H.P. Lovecrafts works are consider to be heavily influenced by Poe (Lovecraft hinself admitted as much" However "The Rats in the Walls" is often cosider on of the two Lovecraft tales with the most heavy Poe reference (The other being "At the Mountains of Madness, which borrows heavily from Poe's "The Narrative of A. Gordon Pym") The protagonist of that story is even named Delapore and you find out the orginal spelling of this name was "de la Poer".
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.