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Official Discussion Thread: When and Where

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Sep 6, 2010
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 9/7/10 episode "When and Where" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of Nagowteena

    Nagowteena

    [2]Sep 8, 2010
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    Now I'm staring to feel some of the close ties from season 1! I really liked this episode!
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [3]Sep 8, 2010
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    Nice! I liked the glimpse of the Warehouse before computer automation. The sheer number of office staff that was required back then to keep track of all of the data is quite foreign to us in our current culture. It was also a treat to see Armin Shimmerman (Quark) from Star Trek: DS9. The reference to Mrs. Frederic deepens her mystery just a little more, cool.


    I also liked the way they returned to and closed out the Rebecca and Jack story line.


    Now as far as Artie and H.G. are concerned: His inability to accept the Regent's judgement nearly cost his team their lives, and he knows it. The question now is will he continue to warm up to H.G. or is this just a temporary thaw? I still can't trust her completely, but she has done much to rehabilitate her character.

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    sramv9

    [4]Sep 8, 2010
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    Overall a great episode. Loved the 60s costumes, sets and makeup. but...why could they pull the knife out of Pete and halt the transformation but not be able to pull the knife out of the guy's wife (i.e., the killer, can't remember her name)?

    Also...I am glad to hear them calling the 'HG' character Helena - makes a lot more sense.

    I started wondering though - did we ever find out why McPherson got Helena out of the bronzing? Did we ever learn what his plan would have been had she not pulled that necklace off him? Is it really plausible that the team could just accept her doing that? I seem to remember her very glibly just pulling it off his neck. Why? Because he was a bad bad man? Then why would he have been the one to bring her back? Did they ever answer any of that stuff? Or is it all going to resurface later...
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  • Avatar of MichaudMR

    MichaudMR

    [5]Sep 8, 2010
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    sramv9 wrote:
    ... but...why could they pull the knife out of Pete and halt the transformation but not be able to pull the knife out of the guy's wife.


    I started wondering though - did we ever find out why McPherson got Helena out of the bronzing? Did we ever learn what his plan would have been had she not pulled that necklace off him? Is it really plausible that the team could just accept her doing that? I seem to remember her very glibly just pulling it off his neck. Why? Because he was a bad bad man? Then why would he have been the one to bring her back? Did they ever answer any of that stuff? Or is it all going to resurface later...


    I can see past the knife thing as Pete's injury was more or less superficial, versus her stabbing was quite fatal, although it is somewhat of a stretch.


    As far as H.G. goes; that's a plot hole big enough to drive a semi through. I'm more in Artie's camp than Myka's on this one. But then again, orders are orders, and the Regents have been clear in their decision on her re-enstatement. One can only trust they have all of the facts and their judgement is sound, and hope the writers tie this one up for us before too long.

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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [6]Sep 8, 2010
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    WOW!!! They went all out on this episode. Kudos to the writers, costume department, and settings people. This episode was amazing and must have totally blown the budget. I like that Artie grudgingly gave "Helena" credit for saving the day. He had to have seen the tears in her eyes as she feared the loss of Myka and Pete. This has to have been the best episode of the season.

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  • Avatar of Bicketybam

    Bicketybam

    [7]Sep 8, 2010
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    I loved the fact that they made the power coupling on HG's Time Machine look like the Flux Capacitor! Laughing

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  • Avatar of joltek

    joltek

    [8]Sep 8, 2010
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    The title of this episode should be called Mad Men Jumped the Shark!
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  • Avatar of Princess_Pinky

    Princess_Pinky

    [9]Sep 9, 2010
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    I enjoyed this, but every time I heard someone say physical time travel is impossible, I kept thinking, "You guys need to have a little chat with the Eureka gang!"


    And then that got me thinking...Claudia saw Fargo's whole life flash before her eyes thanks to the Zoetrope, so she should already know that physical time travel is possible. (Unless she somehow saw Other Fargo's life, but Other Fargo wasn't the one who touched the Zoetrope, so I wouldn't think she would've seen his life.)


    I also loved that they gave closure to the Rebecca/Jack storyline. The last scene was so cute! And I adore how they keep bringing stuff back from season one: "Knock, knock!", Artie's past with the Russians, and now Jack/Rebecca.It's like someone sat down and decided to watch the S1 DVDs and then got a bunch of ideas for how to tiethem into this season.


    ETA: Or maybe she's just pretending not to know that physical time travel exists in order to preserve/protect Fargo (and everyone else's) time travel secret. Yeah, I'm going to go with that theory until proven otherwise from now on.

    Edited on 09/08/2010 11:38pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Jemadari

    Jemadari

    [10]Sep 9, 2010
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    Loved the episode and the above poster makes interesting points about Claudia having seen Fargo's life and this episode was not without it's Doctor Who moments with regards to making sure they recorded the tape for themselves and going to the cherry orchard

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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [11]Sep 9, 2010
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    joltek wrote:
    The title of this episode should be called Mad Men Jumped the Shark!


    Why?

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  • Avatar of TankLike

    TankLike

    [12]Sep 9, 2010
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    I'm on Team Artie. I don't trust "Helena" one bit. And: They all went behind Artie's back (again in Myka's case) and it was dangerous as hell. And then Artie's the bad guy for doing something he couldn't have known to avoid in the first place?


    In a way it seems that everyone's doing whatever he/she likes in this season.


    As for the knife-thing: Pete has been injured and Myka has never been a fan of changing the timeline. So she let it happen the way it was supposed to be...

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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [13]Sep 9, 2010
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    *********** SPOILER **************


    Didn't they say that they would lose a team member in the previews for the next episode?

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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [14]Sep 9, 2010
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    I am also with team Artie although apparently Artie is reconsidering his stand. Anyway it was a great episode, loved the back then Warehouse although the director or head honcho looked more like Uncle Scrooge than an Artie's type.
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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [15]Sep 10, 2010
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    Great espisode!!! However, I was a little surprised by three events listed below.



    1) Why was Pete so hell bent on trying to save the women that were going to be murdered? Didn't he know that by saving any woman or changing the time line he could have unleashed catastrophic events in his own timeline?


    2) When Pete was stabbed with the knife, Myka pulled out the knife from his hand and the part of his body that began to turn into glass turned back into flesh. So, why did they all just watch the killer get stabbed with the knife and slowly turn into glass? Why didn't Pete pull out the knife as he was so hell bent on saving her anyway?


    3) When Myka was accused of sleeping with the married agent and called a whore, why didn't she say anything? She had already been told that the husband was being helped by the other women that was killed for a coup de tat and that nothing else was going on. Why allow the wife to believe that when she could have put an end to the entire thought?



    Was a little confusing to me. I know that somebody is probably saying that you cannot change what is supposed to happen, as H.G. Wells had indicated earlier in the show. However, the agents behavior was unPete and unMyka like to me.


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  • Avatar of cowboy2831

    cowboy2831

    [16]Sep 10, 2010
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    I think I enjoyed this episode more than any this season. There have been some pretty big plot holes mentioned above, though.


    Also, I'm wondering if Helena used the time machine to go back and inhabit someone to deal with her daughter's killers, or if she took care of things herself. Either way, it sounds like she made things very unpleasant for them.

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  • Avatar of lcrsww

    lcrsww

    [17]Sep 13, 2010
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    Enjoyed the time travel references from Back to the Future and Quantum Leap, as I was such a nerd pointing them out.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [18]Sep 14, 2010
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    Good episode I usually don't care for time travel episodes but this one went well. I can see Artie not trusting Helena but pulling a gun on her and pretty much ignoring the regents that's a bit too much and all this because she killed Mcpherson the traitor don't get it. Cool the way the old lady got to jump back to her old life and start over again.

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  • Avatar of Carycomic

    Carycomic

    [20]Sep 6, 2012
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    lcrsww wrote:
    Enjoyed the time travel references from Back to the Future and Quantum Leap, as I was such a nerd pointing them out.
    I'm an even bigger nerd. Because, I seem to be the only one who's ever determined why Helena G's time machine only works for 22 hours and 19 minutes. Subtract that duration from 24, and you get the approximate running time (1 hr./41 minutes) of the original 1960 "Time Machine" starring Rod Taylor (as H.G Wells)! Laughing

    Edited on 09/17/2012 1:13pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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