What's My Line? Forums

CBS (ended 1967)

Color episodes

  • Avatar of The1Factotum1i1

    The1Factotum1i1

    [21]Dec 17, 2005
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    Goodson-Todman, and virually all producers of the time, videotaped everything. VTs offered all kinds of possibilities live programming didn't, such as editing out mistakes and time over runs. It was also far easier than film, which would have a much more involved process than the instantly edited and played back VTs. The real bummer with them was the prohibitive cost of keeping the show on VT.
    Most all network shows had a reason for being re-broadcast, for time-delayed western or Canadian showings, or as Armed Forces network use throughout the world. The programmes were kinescoped for these uses. And as we've seen, a KS was all too often good enough for a preservation copy too. The VTs, as noted, were very expensive- too much so to not just erase and re-use over and over to make it worth the price. That's why there's so few actual VTs from those days. We have the KSs of VTs for the most part. The few exceptions are rare.
    As far as G-T, still no accounting for how strangely their archive was conducted. Their pet show, WML?, sofar as is known, has no extant VT version from the CBS network series. The same can be said of I'VE GOT A SECRET. But VTs of most of the evening PASSWORDs exist, though they were KSed as well, (I have one)and at the same time, NO copies of the weekday version, in any medium, were preserved. TO TELL THE TRUTH's night time edition was saved on KS, and a truly motely scattershot bunch of the weekday version was saved on VT. They have one stray KS one as well. (I have a 1964 KS of one they don't have). None of this makes much sense, I can only assume that at one time, they had a coherent preservation sytem in mind, but over the years, the library passed into the hands of incompetants that couldn't protect the materials, (There are hundreds of missing I'VE GOT A SECRETs, including ALL BUT ONE 1954 episode,and other whole series like PLAY YOUR HUNCH are represented by less than 5 episodes.) or maybe ruthless and short-sighted housecleanings lead to a massive destruction program, overturning Gil Fates' onetime "Save everything" edict of 1952.
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    Fat-tote-bag

    [22]Dec 17, 2005
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    Of course none of this makes much sense. Death is the reason. Mark Goodson never discussed the preservation issue with a reporter or video interviewer before he died in 1992. Gil Fates lived until 2000, but all he said was that buying a kinescope from CBS was cheaper than saving a bulky videotape. He never explained why the 25th anniversary made him feel compelled to damage so many kinescopes. Mike Dann, a CBS programming executive in the 1960s who has done soundbites for a few E ! True Hollywood Stories, lives today. He has said "Mark and Gil" were totally responsible for whatever fates befell post - 1952 episodes of any of their shows. Somebody saved videotapes of Password? That was the Goodson company's decision, not CBS'.
    Edited on 07/11/2006 5:56am
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    astorino

    [23]Dec 19, 2005
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    ClassicTV wrote:
    I thank in advance anyone who might post an explanation as to how to actively link a website address.


    TV.com does have restrictions, but when you reach a Level 3, they allow you to post html and BB Code in the forums. To make an URL "clickable" - in front of the URL you put:

    [url]

    and after the url, you put:

    [/url]

    You can also use html but this above method is the easiest, and allows the person to see the URL.
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  • Avatar of The1Factotum1i1

    The1Factotum1i1

    [24]Dec 19, 2005
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    Fat-tote-bag wrote:
    Of course none of this makes much sense. Death is the reason. Mark Goodson never discussed the preservation issue with a reporter or video interviewer before he died in 1992. Gil Fates lived until 2000, but all he said was that buying a kinescope from CBS was cheaper than saving a bulky videotape. He never explained why the 25th anniversary made him feel compelled to damage so many kinescopes. Mike Dann, a CBS programming executive in the 1960s who has done soundbites for a few E ! True Hollywood Stories, lives today. He has said "Mark and Gil" were totally responsible for whatever fates befell post - 1952 episodes of any of their shows. Somebody saved videotapes of Password? That was the Goodson company's decision, not CBS'.

    Goodson isn't known to have commented on the way his archives were preserved. A comment about the purchasing of Kinescope prints from CBS by Gil Fates has been recorded. Perhaps he divines from these two elements some sort of evidence to refute that: There are no Videotapes of the CBS WML? That Kinescopes were made of all the G-T series for various uses? That the Goodson-Todman archives have been severly decimated over the years, and so much has been destroyed or stolen? Also- I didn't say a thing about the 25th anniverasy show -it's irrelevant here. When he says, grimly, "Death Is The Reason" what could the expiration of the two men cited possibly do with how well a sizable archive has been managed, unless maybe they were supposed to be personally guarding it? The looting/junking took place over the years. There's random episodes of these things that collectors have had for years, but are no longer in the G-T archive. The game show thieves have struck, but it could have been done decades ago. It's disconcerting how you're qualifying someone's word on the strength that he had something to do with E true Hollywood mysteries.

    Edited on 02/05/2008 12:39am
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    TwoInchQuad

    [27]Dec 23, 2005
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    The1Factotum1i1 wrote:
    ... That's why there's so few actual VTs from those days. We have the KSs of VTs for the most part. The few exceptions are rare.
    As far as G-T... their pet show, WML?, sofar as is known, has no extant VT version from the CBS network series. The same can be said of I'VE GOT A SECRET. But VTs of most of the evening PASSWORDs exist, though they were KSed as well, (I have one)and at the same time, NO copies of the weekday version, in any medium, were preserved. TO TELL THE TRUTH's night time edition was saved on KS, and a truly motely scattershot bunch of the weekday version was saved on VT. They have one stray KS one as well.

    ...(There are hundreds of missing I'VE GOT A SECRETs, including ALL BUT ONE 1954 episode,and other whole series like PLAY YOUR HUNCH are represented by less than 5 episodes.)


    With all due respect, I'd like to clear up some mis-information here. Although it is still currently true that no VT (color or B&W) has yet turned up for "What's My Line?", I'm afraid most of the rest of the information offered above is inaccurate.

    --At least one B&W VT episode of IGAS has now turned up in an archive, dating from 1961. And there are plenty of early IGAS episodes still extant on kinescopes-- GSN merely chooses not to show them. As for the specific year of 1954, I've got three in my own collection, and quite a few others are detailed at:

    http://www.kinescopes.com/IGAS.html

    -- As was previously mentioned, almost all of the evening Password eps exist on VT; though the holdings of the color eps from the final 12/66 to 5/67 period are the patchiest portion of that series. Additionally, those color primetime eps apparently now only exist in edited versions. While it's true the daytime version is not nearly so well represented, there are approximately 180 episodes on color VT from the final 1966/67 season, which was the only color season for the daytime run. These were later combined with the aforementioned edited nighttime eps to form a rerun syndication package that G-T marketed in 1969. It was the success of this syndie package in many national markets that led to ABC reviving the show in 1971. As a final note, there are about 10 scattered daytime Password kinescopes that have been found, to date. Six of those pre-date the syndie daytime eps.

    --TTTT (daytime), which began in the 60s (like Password) wasn't deliberately saved until about the fall of 1966, but from that point forward was similarly archived in its native videotape format. Actually, there's a fairly decent selection of eps that exist from the last two years of the show's daytime run, right up to the 9/68 conclusion.

    Just wanted to set the record straight on those.

    [And for the record, I still think we'll turn up some WML? tape somewhere... it may or may not be color, but I'm sure there's **something** out there!]

    -Kevin
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  • Avatar of ymike673

    ymike673

    [28]Dec 23, 2005
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    I'm with you. The "pilot" for "I Love Lucy" was also thought to be lost and it turned up after 40 years under the bed of the son of one of the guest stars on that show!!! So anything is possible.
    Edited on 07/10/2006 2:19am
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  • Avatar of The1Factotum1i1

    The1Factotum1i1

    [29]Dec 24, 2005
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    Well anything is POSSIBLE, I know this from my work with early film. "Lost" items have turned up here and there (throughout the world) but the possibility of the lost G-T stuff turning up, especially in any volume, would seem unlikely now. I would love to see it.
    Edited on 02/05/2008 12:42am
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  • Avatar of stillcountry

    stillcountry

    [33]Dec 24, 2005
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    Merry Christmas to everyone here at the WML site!! Andy
    Edited on 02/08/2008 5:26pm
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  • Avatar of sixtyfivealive

    sixtyfivealive

    [34]Dec 24, 2005
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    Merry Christmas to you, too!
    Edited on 02/08/2008 5:27pm
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  • Avatar of ymike673

    ymike673

    [35]Dec 24, 2005
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    I used the Lucy pilot as an example. Another example of a lost show being found after many years would be the second pilot for "All In The Family". This was a color video tape made for ABC that had different actors cast as the Stivics. It was thought lost after ABC passed on the show but turned up about 20 years later. I was just trying to make a point that things can turn up.
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    W-B

    [36]Dec 25, 2005
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    ymike673 wrote:
    I used the Lucy pilot as an example. Another example of a lost show being found after many years would be the second pilot for "All In The Family". This was a color video tape made for ABC that had different actors cast as the Stivics. It was thought lost after ABC passed on the show but turned up about 20 years later. I was just trying to make a point that things can turn up.

    That and, as I noted elsewhere (at least I think I did) about previously-considered "lost" episodes, from the late 1960's or early '70's, of the Heatter/Quigley-produced, Peter Marshall-hosted Hollywood Squares, existing in color videotape form, discovered a few years ago. But given what had been written about what exists of the "old" WML?, well . . .
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  • Avatar of ymike673

    ymike673

    [37]Dec 25, 2005
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    W-B wrote:
    ymike673 wrote:
    I used the Lucy pilot as an example. Another example of a lost show being found after many years would be the second pilot for "All In The Family". This was a color video tape made for ABC that had different actors cast as the Stivics. It was thought lost after ABC passed on the show but turned up about 20 years later. I was just trying to make a point that things can turn up.

    That and, as I noted elsewhere (at least I think I did) about previously-considered "lost" episodes, from the late 1960's or early '70's, of the Heatter/Quigley-produced, Peter Marshall-hosted Hollywood Squares, existing in color videotape form, discovered a few years ago. But given what had been written about what exists of the "old" WML?, well . . .


    My guess would be if anything exists in color from WMLs last season it would be an episode that was video taped for later viewing by CBS. There are quite a few episodes that were video taped duuring the last season. (Almost all the July/Aug. episodes were video taped earlier that season to give the panel the summer off) An episode could have been kept/stolen by an employee and that is what I hope turns up.
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    stillcountry

    [39]Dec 25, 2005
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    And a Happy New Year to you all!

    Edited on 02/08/2008 5:28pm
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    stillcountry

    [40]Dec 25, 2005
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    Y'all are something else!! LOL
    Edited on 02/05/2008 12:45am
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