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CBS (ended 1967)

The Big Stray HAND & other GOOFS!

  • Avatar of astorino

    astorino

    [1]Aug 13, 2005
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    Something to look out for on the Olivia de Havilland episode:

    Watch the end credits, and you'll see a big HAND pop up. I first saw it over 2 years ago and the episode finally rolled around again.
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    W-B

    [2]Aug 13, 2005
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    For me, it proved one thing: The graphics of that particular card were on boards, rather than slides.
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  • Avatar of sixtyfivealive

    sixtyfivealive

    [3]Aug 13, 2005
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    astorino wrote:
    Something to look out for on the Olivia de Havilland episode:

    Watch the end credits, and you'll see a big HAND pop up. I first saw it over 2 years ago and the episode finally rolled around again.


    Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....That hand really belongs to an exec at GSN getting ready to pull the wool over our eyes again.
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    astorino

    [4]Aug 13, 2005
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    sixtyfivealive wrote:
    Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....That hand really belongs to an exec at GSN getting ready to pull the wool over our eyes again.


    Your cute pun has put a sheepish grin on my face!
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  • Avatar of astorino

    astorino

    [5]Aug 14, 2005
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    But really, guys and gals, HOW could this mistake have happened??? There is no logical explanation for it.
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  • Avatar of sixtyfivealive

    sixtyfivealive

    [6]Aug 14, 2005
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    astorino wrote:
    sixtyfivealive wrote:
    Don't bite the hand that feeds you.....That hand really belongs to an exec at GSN getting ready to pull the wool over our eyes again.


    Your cute pun has put a sheepish grin on my face!


    Do I detect a little Bennett in that statement?
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  • Avatar of astorino

    astorino

    [7]Aug 14, 2005
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    sixtyfivealive wrote:
    Do I detect a little Bennett in that statement?


    Jim, not until I say "Horse of a different cruller."
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  • Avatar of The1Factotum1i1

    The1Factotum1i1

    [8]Aug 15, 2005
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    The show was running very late. The last ad was jettisoned, and the stuff that's read over the crawl mostly was too, including the address to send pictures or inquire about tickets, that American Airlines flies contestants around, etc.
    The way credits were run on live programs were to fade onto a card there in the studio, and a film beginning with that same image would take over from that point on another camera. Often we see the credits, especially the opening, get very poor contrast, and nearly go black. Such things happen on the crude kinescope recordings. If we were watching it live, it would look just fine. Kinescoped film hardly ever looked good. I think we have an idea that TV reception was worse than it ever was, because the only thing left for us to see are Kinescopes.
    Anyway, we saw the card that would have intro'd into the credits film yanked away, probably by an over eager stage hand, aware that the show was up against their closing second, which caused a (losing) photo finish. Judging by the size of the man's hand, the card seemed a lot smaller than I thought it would be.
    I've seen actual surviving "Credits", including a station break from the dying days of DuMont : "WABD-TV BOXING FROM ST.NICHOLAS ARENA TOMORROW NIGHT AT 7:30", this was about 11x17", and another that said " THE MOHAWK SHOWROOM" also about the same size. Also have seen the full credits for a COLGATE COMEDY HOUR, all cards about 9x12" on two rings, like Mr.Daly's flip cards, that would be spun over, one by one, superimposed over the opening dance number, "This is Sunday, your Colgate fun day...etc."
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    ymike673

    [9]Aug 15, 2005
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    astorino wrote:
    But really, guys and gals, HOW could this mistake have happened??? There is no logical explanation for it.


    That's what is great about "live" TV. Anything can happen and it did. Could that of been "Fates" hand?,LOL.
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    The1Factotum1i1

    [10]Aug 15, 2005
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    Bennett! Is that you??
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  • Avatar of sixtyfivealive

    sixtyfivealive

    [11]Aug 15, 2005
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    astorino wrote:
    sixtyfivealive wrote:
    Do I detect a little Bennett in that statement?


    Jim, not until I say "Horse of a different cruller."


    Ooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!! Bennett's in this thread somewhere and JD's just shaking his head.
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    chchon

    [12]Aug 15, 2005
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    Might anyone -- particularly the artist formerly known as Stopette -- happen to know if any Dorothy Kilgallen-era WMLs were preserved on videotape versus kinescope. For all the reasons you all point out, I dislike watching kinescope -- it just doesn't provide the same feel as videotape (much less live). I have wished someone would develop a computer enhancement technique to make kinescope resemble the original image. They certainly can engineer the reverse (video to look like film).

    Anyway, if anyone knows of such a videotaped show from that era, I sure would like to see it.
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  • Avatar of sixtyfivealive

    sixtyfivealive

    [13]Aug 15, 2005
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    chchon wrote:
    Might anyone -- particularly the artist formerly known as Stopette -- happen to know if any Dorothy Kilgallen-era WMLs were preserved on videotape versus kinescope. For all the reasons you all point out, I dislike watching kinescope -- it just doesn't provide the same feel as videotape (much less live). I have wished someone would develop a computer enhancement technique to make kinescope resemble the original image. They certainly can engineer the reverse (video to look like film).

    Anyway, if anyone knows of such a videotaped show from that era, I sure would like to see it.


    I would really seriously doubt it, since they only went as far as to preserve the final 1966-67 season (originally in color) on black and white kinescope, I think because it was the most cost-effective at the time.
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  • Avatar of The1Factotum1i1

    The1Factotum1i1

    [14]Aug 16, 2005
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    SIXTYFIVEALIVE is right, cost had a lot to do with it. Industrial Video Tape was expensive, and routinely reused, plowing over material after it was run once, over and over until worn out. Then discarded. This is the monstrous fate of most episodes of Ernie Kovacs' satire of a game show, "TAKE A GOOD LOOK". The local Los Angeles station was recycling them as inserts for the news and weather. When Ernie died, Edie had to buy what they had left.
    When VT (Video Tape, not Vermont) was used in those days, it was as a corner cutter, a way to edit a show, and do retakes if needed. This was especially useful for doing dramas. The end of the line PLAYHOUSE 90 is all made of VT, for instance. But it was not to be used for a preserved record; the VT show would be kinescoped when it was aired, and the VT master is now liberated to be reused.This is sadly the case with WML? To it's last day in 1967, all that was made to record it was the old cruddy B&W kinescope version.
    Kinescopes were probably preferred anyway, as any potential station that needed to delay the broadcast would likely only have equipment for running 16mm film and not VTs. Even if it did, they certainly had the 16mm equitment as well, and the routine for handling cans of cheap Kinescope film was in place.
    Of the many drawbacks of KS(Kinescopes, not Kansas) is it's insensitivity to the rather soft color that was broadcast in the 1950s. Perhaps you've seen a clip of the celebrated Mary Martin "PETER PAN" of 1956. It was an important show, talked about for years. But there's only a terrible, barely watchable, murky KS left to show for it. The first network uses of VTs were in late 1956, on THE JONATHAN WINTERS SHOW and CBS EVENING NEWS. I think they were back-to-back 15 minute shows. But there's only KSs left to show for it!
    A real find was about ten years ago, in amongst Fred Astaire's worldly possessions, a VT of his 1958 special with Barrie Chase. It turns out to be the earliest extant sample of a color TV show. Also turned up more recently were several complete color VTs of THE FORD SHOW, starring Tennessee Ernie Ford, of 1959-60, in amongst KSs of all the rest in the Ford archives. You see, until the early 1960s, there's just crumbs left of VTs. Goodson & Todman just kept pinching pennies on WML? until it was finished, and not a foot is known to exist on VT.
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    ymike673

    [15]Aug 16, 2005
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    There's always hope. Maybe one of the final season color WML's that were video taped to be shown later in the season survie in a collection somewhere. Anyway we can wish that would happen.
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    The1Factotum1i1

    [16]Aug 16, 2005
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    Anything's possible, but G-T were strange about what was and was not saved, and how they'd be kept. Their two biggest shows, WML? and IGAS were only on KSs, whereas the weekly CBS Passwords were all saved on VT from start to finish, even to the color era. There were KS made of the same episodes as well. (I have one.) However, none of the daytime ones were saved in any form. Why? The weekly TTTTs were saved on KS only. However, a small, seemingly random batch of their daytime episodes were saved, and on VT to boot. Again, Why?
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    ymike673

    [17]Aug 16, 2005
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    I have a list of all the prime time TTTT shows that exist and it states that 2 episodes from the last prime time season exisit in color so maybe a color WML will turn up someday.
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    The1Factotum1i1

    [18]Aug 17, 2005
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    I wish they would show them- they only showed the KS of the final season. Maybe they just tossed them in with the syndie version, which are of course all color VTs.
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    ymike673

    [19]Aug 17, 2005
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    There are a few clips from the syndicated WML in the WML at 25 special and even know the show was in color, those clips are shown in B/W.
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    The1Factotum1i1

    [20]Aug 17, 2005
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    Yeah, to get the footage of Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter in there, to make it seem somehow fresh and relevant. They just turn the color off for those bits. Cheating, if you ask me.
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