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Thursday 9:00 PM on USABetween Seasons

Discussion Thread: 2.11 Forging Bonds (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of anbis82

    anbis82

    [1]Jan 25, 2011
    • member since: 08/01/07
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    Peter Burke sporting a fancy mustache? Let's hope that's a flashback episode .

    Please use this thread to share your thoughts about Forging Bonds.

    Enjoy !

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  • Avatar of Slash_out

    Slash_out

    [2]Jan 26, 2011
    • member since: 10/10/05
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    Awesome episode.
    A lot of info about their past and how things went down.
    I'm more than convinced now that Kate was following Adler's order all along, even when first getting close to Neil.
    And we finally get some Kate time, at least more than a few seconds worth.
    I'm really torn between her and Sarah. Kate is very pretty and sweet, but I like Sarah's personality better.
    Anyway, I hope to see more of any of them in futur episodes.
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  • Avatar of GreyMinerva

    GreyMinerva

    [3]Jan 26, 2011
    • member since: 03/27/09
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    I agree that Kate MAY have been Adler's all along - but I don't see what the benefit would have been for her and Adler when he disappeared, leaving her and Neal broke and on their own for something like SIX OR SEVEN YEARS before setting Neal in motion to go after the musicbox again?
    Possibly she worked for him back in the beginning, but staying in touch all the intervening years - I'm not convinced.
    Adler showing up out of the blue and taking control of her via Fowler when he decided the time was right - maybe.

    And I seriously hope she's dead.
    She's cute and all that, but as far as I can tell she abandoned Neal when he needed her, then manipulated and tried to use him until she was killed.
    Good riddance.
    Kate seems to turn Neal's brain to instant goo, and I for one do not enjoy watching him dance to her tune.
    Sarah is much cooler.

    As regards the episode itself, I was actually a bit confused about the timeline.
    Clearly, Neal was a small time grifter and gifted forger before he met Mozzie - he had already forged the bonds, which were probably not his first works, and it takes experience to hustle a hustler the way he took down Mozzie and his partner.
    In previous episodes it's been made clear that he never graduated high school and never attended college as a student (but has three bachelor degrees and two masters or some such ) which would imply he was already in the craft by then.
    Hooking up with darling Mozzie he was still a slightly awkward and insecure young man, and when he met Kate she was apparently a perfectly "normal" and innocent young woman.
    Six months of getting "polished" by Adler, and Neal is a smooth, suave man who likes a good suit.
    At this point, Peter's already been chasing him for half a year.
    After Adler's disappearance, Neal teaches Kate everything she needs to survive until he screws up by trying to con her - he goes to Europe, she takes off for parts unknown.
    Neal does a quick tour of Europe before returning to the US to find Kate, and has been doing so for a while before the FBI tips him off as part of their trap.

    Now, the timeline here is a bit "tight", I feel - Neal apparently didn't spend very much TIME in Europe, despite the fact that we've been getting the impression that he travelled exstensively there, making forgeries (which takes a bit of time) and stealing stuff.
    And Kate appears to have been a perfectly innocent girl until she was subverted and turned to a life of crime by Neal - hello, I get being angry and broke, but surely she could have TRIED getting a JOB?!? Or was it THAT important to her to get rich quick?
    So after a maximum of two years training (remember, six months of dating legit Nick Holden, then perhaps six months apart as he spent time in Europe an then chasing her) she's living the life of a con-artist, painting her own forgeries?!? She must be Very Gifted indeed...

    According to the syllabus from the copycat-episode, Neal is suspected of stealing and/or forging art for about 10.2 BILLION dollars.
    Considering the fairly small-scale stuff he was into before hooking up with Mozzie, and the fact that he was left with NOTHING after the Adler-scam, those must have been 2 1/2 VERY productive years. :p

    I'm actually a bit unsatisfied by the timeline as presented in the episode. It doesn't quite mesh with my interpretation of the Neal & Kate relationship, nor with my understanding of Neal's background and Peter's pursuit.
    Oh, well - it's canon now. :p
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  • Avatar of Slash_out

    Slash_out

    [4]Jan 26, 2011
    • member since: 10/10/05
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    Yeah I also asked myself what would be the benefits for her and Adler to stay with him when Adler disapeared. I guess that would be an inconsistancy or plot hole until we learn more unless it's just something else... Like she really liked him ^^.
    My guess on how things went down would be that Adler sent her to him at the very beginning to check on him, and know what he was doing, just to be a step ahead. I don't know why she should have stayed with him afterwards unless when she told him "I love you too" she was telling the truth, but the fact that she disapeared completly, and was somehow "found" just after Neal came back from his trip, with the rumor floating around that he had the music box... That's just too suspicious. So yeah maybe Adler catched up to her and made her come back on the map just enough to be "findeable".

    Just like you I did hope Kate would be really dead. I started wanting that since the plane explosion episode. Since I just like Sarah a lot more. But Im starting to think Kate wouldn't be that bad. Still I'd really prefer Sarah xD.

    I also felt the 3 year timeline was too short. We learned how Neal got his smoothness, how his dressing habit was born, but it felt really short for him to be "that good", at such a high level. The only cons we saw him doing were the cards con with mazzie, a small time thievery of a messenger bag, a failed con on a multi-millionaire, and a failed theft of the music box ... Not that impressive.
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  • Avatar of xcookiemostax

    xcookiemostax

    [5]Jan 27, 2011
    • member since: 01/28/11
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    Best episode so far.


    I love Neal and Kate, did from the beginning. I knew their relationship must have been really complex, particularly because of the way he loved her and wouldn't let go. I was frustrated they kept making it look like she was the bad guy, all the comments Burke and Mozzie made about her possibly betraying him. If that were true why would she have waited 4 years and seen him every single week. Her actually allowing Fowler to take her just proved her love more. It didn't make sense for her to have been against him unless it was the LONGEST CON IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.


    Any suggestionKate was/isworking for the boss Alder is DUMB: She would have had to pretend to break up with her boyfriend Michael, pretend to have loved Neal, pretend to have lost her money when Alder skipped the country, kept pretending by spending a couple of more years with Neal, then pretended to be upset about the music box and somehow have known he would leave andsomehow know the plan would fall apart, just so that he would realise he made a mistake and want her back. (Whoa long sentence) Thenshe would havebepretending to be running from him because he hurt her, then pretend to be shocked when he found her so he would get caught, then pretend to love him for 4 years visiting him every week. Then finally pretend to be kidnapped and killed...... Yeah right! For what reason?


    Even when Neal told her the truth about his name and that he had been lying for months. She stayed with him. She truly loved him, to forgive and forget, so they could be together. The scene where Bomer does his little dance and she gives him the hatso he'spresentable was the best scene. They look beauitful together.


    She became a con for him, to be with him. When they were dressed as cops it was adorable. She loved him as much as he loved her. From the episode it was evident. She did. She was hurt when he tried to con her into going on a job.


    Sara and Alex are bland compared to beautiful, mysterious, elusive Kate Moreau.


    I amholding onto hope that she is alive. I think the show would be better if she was alive, more excitement and romance (because Katehasn't got an anklet like Neal. she could continue to be a con artist if she wanted, possibly lead Neal astray. Just interesting storylines. Or a love triangle, Neal starts dating Sara but then he discovers Kate is alive and of course wants to be with her.)


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  • Avatar of Slash_out

    Slash_out

    [6]Jan 27, 2011
    • member since: 10/10/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
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    xcookiemostax wrote:


    Any suggestionKate was/isworking for the boss Alder is DUMB: She would have had to pretend to break up with her boyfriend Michael, pretend to have loved Neal, pretend to have lost her money when Alder skipped the country, kept pretending by spending a couple of more years with Neal, then pretended to be upset about the music box and somehow have known he would leave andsomehow know the plan would fall apart, just so that he would realise he made a mistake and want her back. (Whoa long sentence) Thenshe would havebepretending to be running from him because he hurt her, then pretend to be shocked when he found her so he would get caught, then pretend to love him for 4 years visiting him every week. Then finally pretend to be kidnapped and killed......

    Right because so far, there was no conspiracies and everything was pink and dandy, simple and clear. Adler was already working on the music box back then. It is obvious from the fact that he that fractal thingy in his possession and how he reacted when Alex (or whatever her name was) tried to infiltrate his company after checking up on what was in his art inventory (and the fact that she did that to find the music box).


    It's obvious Kate was working for Adler beyond the simple secreatry thing. The only thing to decide is how far was she involved. She might have just used an excuse when she disapeared (why would she completly disapear from Neal's life over a little argument?) just to join with Adler in their search and came back on the grid when the rumor of Neal possessing the music box surfaced. If so she didn't become a con for him, she already was. And she con'ed him (if she didn't fall in love with him at some point).


    Anyway, so far it isn't clear and we need more info... as it is most of the time, however I do not apreciate my opinion being qualified as dumb. You have no right since you have some opinions of your own as well and nothing more than me to support them, have some respect please. Anyway I find Sarah much more interesting, Kate is beautiful, in the smooth, cute way. She is sweet. Sarah has a stronger more abrasive personality. It's up to everyone's taste, but to say that Sarah is more bland than Kate... Sorry can't agree.

    Edited on 01/27/2011 2:44pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of haldrey

    haldrey

    [7]Jan 27, 2011
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    Plenty of interesting information in this episode but still a bit lame. I am not too fond of this kind of episodes.
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  • Avatar of EJamison

    EJamison

    [8]Jan 28, 2011
    • member since: 07/09/05
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    It seems too convenient the way all the people we know came together during this one deal. Of course, some of it's not really imporant, like how Jones happened to come aboard at the same time.


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  • Avatar of DreamCruise

    DreamCruise

    [9]Jan 31, 2011
    • member since: 10/29/06
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    haldrey wrote:
    Plenty of interesting information in this episode but still a bit lame. I am not too fond of this kind of episodes.
    Me neither. It's like they (writers) felt they had to do it, but I think sometimes it's best left to the imagination. I liked Satchmo though, in his puppy years Laughing

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