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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [1]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 11/05/07
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 3,074

    So, after a very abysmal Royal Rumble I decided to make a thread that when WWE makes us irate at their decisions we have a place so we can get it off our chest. I'll start with my first topic, the Rock an their "Twice In A Lifetime" build:



    The WWE bring in part-timers/legends because people today can't draw. That's just a simple fact. Nobody on the REAL roster can really draw if you're names not John Cena or to a lesser extent CM Punk. Orton used to be HUGE but WWE has done everything they can to make him seem like he's really not that big of a deal. This is where I get absolutely irate with Cena. Why does he need to be involved with the Rock? They had their match and there's absolutely no reason for them to do this again JUST so Cena can get his passing of the torch or Wrestlemania moment or whatever he's benefiting from this.


    John Cena is a draw. There's no doubt about that. The Rock is a draw, something you can also not doubt. So smart marketing would say that you would split them so that fans of both are still seeing them but the two they are working with are getting exposure. I'm not speaking as a wrestling fan, I'm talking as someone who understands that it should be common sense to do this. WWE's main problem currently is that no star feels like a big deal because John Cena is god and everyone is stricken down by him. Don't try to convince me it's about the wrestlers being small either because size has nothing to do with it. Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Edge, and many others aren't the biggest guys but still could be a big draw in their time. It's not even about mic work! Mysterio, Benoit, Steamboat, and Hart all were terrible on the mic! You didn't like them because they could drop Pipebombs but because WWE played to their strengths (Mysterio's heritage, Steamboat was the mecca of fan-favorite face, Bret Hart showed what he could do in the ring, and Benoit was the "workhorse").


    When it comes down to it a gimmick can it as great as they come, but if the booking/storylines aren't interesting, it's going to flop(sadly the route the Shield is going.) Booking can make the show must-watch or absolute shit. They need to get rid of the D-list movie actors/writers they have and get actual wrestling minds in there (Heyman, Cornette, and Trips to start). Maybe even bring Russo in, I don't care just get people who actually WATCH the sport so that they understand what works. I feel like I strayed from what I wanted to say at first though, this is where Cena fans might want to use ear muffs.


    Cena is what has killed the industry. Stories are slowly starting to leak from lower stars (Tyler Reks, Derrick Bateman) of the antics Cena does and its shockinglyreminiscent of Hulk Hogan. He has to be the top guy and always pick on the new guys and he even calls out a lower mid-carder because his finisher looks too much like his own (which it doesn't at all.) For a guy that is supposed to embody "Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect"sure doesn't respect his opponents unless their name is Dwayne. This is probably one of the most annoying things that Cena does. He absolutely degrades the guy he's facing (most recently Ziggler) and makes him seem like he isn't a threat to him. He ruined one of the most promising storylines in a while this way with Nexus and he's done it on multiple times throughout his reign on top. Even CM Punk the #2 guy has been made to see like he can't even contend with Cena without being dirty. If nobody can pin Cena, why does any 10 year old kid want to see anyone but a winner? CM Punk has created/tried to help out as many people as he can on the way to the top. If you don't look good in a feud with CM Punk you're doing something wrong. Daniel Bryan, The Shield, all the members of SES, and even older stars like Triple H and even CENA himself look better when they're facing off against Punk. It's because of his mic work and the fact that in the ring he'll actually put you over. He won't get hit by multiple finishers and a briefcase and still pop up. WWE is in denial if they think that the reason that they can't stars over is because Cena is the only guy that can. It's the fact that he's untouchable and everyone is beneath him.



    Okay I think I need a break from Cena because it turned into just simply rambling things about him. Although I mentioned about the Reks/Bateman things I still think Cena is a good guy. I also think Hogan is a good guy, but I believe they both have this fear that if they let guys go over then they'll just be forgotten. Anywho, onto my favorite two divisions: Mid-card and Tag team. I've said it before that the WWE has the most talent wrestling-wise then at any other time (including NXT). People like Cesaro, Punk, Bryan, Kidd, Ziggler, Ohno, Neville, Generico are Indy darlings and there's only way to become an indy darling: be the best wrestler on the card. I hope someone can tell me what Kofi Kingston, Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel, or Evan Bournes personality or gimmicks are like because all I see them as is the guys that smile a lot and never have mic time to develop an actual character. Hmm, I wonder why people can invest in characters like that? You're not going to care about a wrestler for long if they do nothing interesting or have something to spark your interest. That's why I think they need to get rid of all the stupid recaps and give more mic-time to the entire roster. Prime-Time Players are hilarious on WWE: Inbox on Youtube but apparently they can't get any time with the stick on an actual show. Makes no sense. Come to think of it, watch a couple of WWE youtube shows. You'll probably see more personality from guys you never saw before. Mic-time is the key to the mid-card. I'm making another paragraph because this is that damn important.



    Where is the harm in giving the mid-card/tag team more mic time? There is no reasonable excuse except that they want more of Cena or Punk to talk for 30 minutes each week. How about the benefits of them talking? It'll give the fans more exposure to them and their character which gives them another reason to watch the show and not just turn the channel until the end. It also gives them diversity. I loved the Cena/Punk feud and the Bryan/Punk feud but if that's all the show is about I'm going to grow tired of it. TV shows work well when there are different directions they're going in because you reach a broader audience and possibly spark their interest. If you have a main-event feud, tag team feud, and mid-card feud those are three different reasons for me to watch your TV show. Guess what else this little trick does? If everyones get air-time, then what the hell separates the divison? Oh yeah, the ACTUAL TITLES. When everyone has a story and a thing they're fighting for the only thing that matters in the end are the titles and the different levels let the audience know where you're at on the card and how much prestige each title has.



    I think that is it for now but I know I have more that I want to get off my chest, tell me what you think and respond with rants of your own about things that bug you. My next rant will probably be more specific about the tag team divison, Daniel Bryan, overkill, and many other things.

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  • Avatar of Deadnight-Majin

    Deadnight-Majin

    [2]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 04/18/08
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 3,128

    goldenagenick24 wrote:
    So, after a very abysmal Royal Rumble I decided to make a thread that when WWE makes us irate at their decisions we have a place so we can get it off our chest. I'll start with my first topic, the Rock an their "Twice In A Lifetime" build:


    The rumble was good man! Come on, even you didn't like the results calling the show abysmal is quite a stretch.


    :
    The WWE bring in part-timers/legends because people today can't draw.That's just a simple fact.


    True.


    :
    Nobody on the REAL roster can really draw if you're names not John Cena or to a lesser extent CM Punk. Orton used to be HUGE but WWE has done everything they can to make him seem like he's really not that big of a deal.


    This is also true. Bastards.


    :
    This is where I get absolutely irate with Cena. Why does he need to be involved with the Rock? They had their match and there's absolutely no reason for them to do this again JUST so Cena can get his passing of the torch or Wrestlemania moment or whatever he's benefiting from this.


    John Cena is a draw. There's no doubt about that. The Rock is a draw, something you can also not doubt. So smart marketing would say that you would split them so that fans of both are still seeing them but the two they are working with are getting exposure. I'm not speaking as a wrestling fan, I'm talking as someone who understands that it should be common sense to do this. WWE's main problem currently is that no star feels like a big deal because John Cena is god and everyone is stricken down by him. Don't try to convince me it's about the wrestlers being small either because size has nothing to do with it. Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Edge, and many others aren't the biggest guys but still could be a big draw in their time. It's not even about mic work! Mysterio, Benoit, Steamboat, and Hart all were terrible on the mic! You didn't like them because they could drop Pipebombs but because WWE played to their strengths (Mysterio's heritage, Steamboat was the mecca of fan-favorite face, Bret Hart showed what he could do in the ring, and Benoit was the "workhorse").


    True, but most of the roster aren't that great, I don't see anyone there who could be built to take Cena's place...yet.


    :
    When it comes down to it a gimmick can it as great as they come, but if the booking/storylines aren't interesting, it's going to flop(sadly the route the Shield is going.) Booking can make the show must-watch or absolute shit. They need to get rid of the D-list movie actors/writers they have and get actual wrestling minds in there (Heyman, Cornette, and Trips to start). Maybe even bring Russo in, I don't care just get people who actually WATCH the sport so that they understand what works. I feel like I strayed from what I wanted to say at first though, this is where Cena fans might want to use ear muffs.


    Russo and Cornette, the two most hated bookers on the internet, fresh from almost killing TNA and Ring Of Honor respectively? Not a great idea. Trips and Heyman, however, could maybe work. Heyman was a fantastic booker back in the day.


    :
    Cena is what has killed the industry. Stories are slowly starting to leak from lower stars (Tyler Reks, Derrick Bateman) of the antics Cena does and its shockinglyreminiscent of Hulk Hogan. He has to be the top guy and always pick on the new guys and he even calls out a lower mid-carder because his finisher looks too much like his own (which it doesn't at all.)


    Cena called out Reks on his finish because a nobody like him using freaking Kenta Kobashi's legendary seven-times-in-history BURNING HAMMER is an insult to wrestling. That story probably isn't even true, Reks talks a lot of crap.


    :
    For a guy that is supposed to embody "Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect"sure doesn't respect his opponents unless their name is Dwayne. This is probably one of the most annoying things that Cena does. He absolutely degrades the guy he's facing (most recently Ziggler) and makes him seem like he isn't a threat to him.


    Yep...just like the Rock always did, back when the WWF was at it's peak. Babyface Trips always does that too. Austin probably did as well, but I don't remember.


    :
    He ruined one of the most promising storylines in a while this way with Nexus and he's done it on multiple times throughout his reign on top. Even CM Punk the #2 guy has been made to see like he can't even contend with Cena without being dirty. If nobody can pin Cena, why does any 10 year old kid want to see anyone but a winner? CM Punk has created/tried to help out as many people as he can on the way to the top. If you don't look good in a feud with CM Punk you're doing something wrong. Daniel Bryan, The Shield, all the members of SES, and even older stars like Triple H and even CENA himself look better when they're facing off against Punk. It's because of his mic work and the fact that in the ring he'll actually put you over. He won't get hit by multiple finishers and a briefcase and still pop up. WWE is in denial if they think that the reason that they can't stars over is because Cena is the only guy that can. It's the fact that he's untouchable and everyone is beneath him.


    This is true.


    :
    Okay I think I need a break from Cena because it turned into just simply rambling things about him. Although I mentioned about the Reks/Bateman things I still think Cena is a good guy. I also think Hogan is a good guy, but I believe they both have this fear that if they let guys go over then they'll just be forgotten. Anywho, onto my favorite two divisions: Mid-card and Tag team. I've said it before that the WWE has the most talent wrestling-wise then at any other time (including NXT). People like Cesaro, Punk, Bryan, Kidd, Ziggler, Ohno, Neville, Generico are Indy darlings and there's only way to become an indy darling: be the best wrestler on the card. I hope someone can tell me what Kofi Kingston, Tyson Kidd, Justin Gabriel, or Evan Bournes personality or gimmicks are like because all I see them as is the guys that smile a lot and never have mic time to develop an actual character. Hmm, I wonder why people can invest in characters like that? You're not going to care about a wrestler for long if they do nothing interesting or have something to spark your interest. That's why I think they need to get rid of all the stupid recaps and give more mic-time to the entire roster. Prime-Time Players are hilarious on WWE: Inbox on Youtube but apparently they can't get any time with the stick on an actual show. Makes no sense. Come to think of it, watch a couple of WWE youtube shows. You'll probably see more personality from guys you never saw before. Mic-time is the key to the mid-card. I'm making another paragraph because this is that damn important.


    This is also true.


    :
    Where is the harm in giving the mid-card/tag team more mic time? There is no reasonable excuse except that they want more of Cena or Punk to talk for 30 minutes each week. How about the benefits of them talking? It'll give the fans more exposure to them and their character which gives them another reason to watch the show and not just turn the channel until the end. It also gives them diversity. I loved the Cena/Punk feud and the Bryan/Punk feud but if that's all the show is about I'm going to grow tired of it. TV shows work well when there are different directions they're going in because you reach a broader audience and possibly spark their interest. If you have a main-event feud, tag team feud, and mid-card feud those are three different reasons for me to watch your TV show. Guess what else this little trick does? If everyones get air-time, then what the hell separates the divison? Oh yeah, the ACTUAL TITLES. When everyone has a story and a thing they're fighting for the only thing that matters in the end are the titles and the different levels let the audience know where you're at on the card and how much prestige each title has.


    More good points. When my friends and I reminisce about the Attitude Era, we talk about guys that were all over the card. Watch an episode of Raw or Smackdown from back then, not everything was great, but pretty much everyone had something going on. It made so much difference, and the product had way more depth than the two horse race it is now.


    :
    I think that is it for now but I know I have more that I want to get off my chest, tell me what you think and respond with rants of your own about things that bug you. My next rant will probably be more specific about the tag team divison, Daniel Bryan, overkill, and many other things
    I enjoyed your rant.

    Edited on 01/29/2013 6:44am
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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [3]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    goldenagenick24 wrote:
    The WWE bring in part-timers/legends because people today can't draw. That's just a simple fact. Nobody on the REAL roster can really draw if you're names not John Cena or to a lesser extent CM Punk. Orton used to be HUGE but WWE has done everything they can to make him seem like he's really not that big of a deal. This is where I get absolutely irate with Cena. Why does he need to be involved with the Rock? They had their match and there's absolutely no reason for them to do this again JUST so Cena can get his passing of the torch or Wrestlemania moment or whatever he's benefiting from this.
    With Orton, no matter how some try to spin it, he's got the 2 strikes and I think the company is weary of trying to do anything really huge with him again. Plus, have you seen him lately, he seems to just be going through the motions. Some of it is his own doing.


    This company seems to have something for Rock vs John. It was done last year, why have it again? Twice In A Lifetime is stupid. One and done. Just move already with those two WWE.


    :
    John Cena is a draw. There's no doubt about that. The Rock is a draw, something you can also not doubt. So smart marketing would say that you would split them so that fans of both are still seeing them but the two they are working with are getting exposure. I'm not speaking as a wrestling fan, I'm talking as someone who understands that it should be common sense to do this. WWE's main problem currently is that no star feels like a big deal because John Cena is god and everyone is stricken down by him. Don't try to convince me it's about the wrestlers being small either because size has nothing to do with it. Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat, Chris Benoit, Bret Hart, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho, Edge, and many others aren't the biggest guys but still could be a big draw in their time. It's not even about mic work! Mysterio, Benoit, Steamboat, and Hart all were terrible on the mic! You didn't like them because they could drop Pipebombs but because WWE played to their strengths (Mysterio's heritage, Steamboat was the mecca of fan-favorite face, Bret Hart showed what he could do in the ring, and Benoit was the "workhorse").
    Splitting the brand could help immensely.


    I don't think it has to do with size either. I've been hammering this elsewhere, it's the company being lazy and now it's showing it's plants that were seeded. They made one star, one and that's John. How in the blue hell in the past, I forget how long he's been on top, has no one else been able to derail his popularity? It's gotten the point where, the fans will cheer someone else, just because they are tired of seeing him on top. It's sad.


    Majin had talked about this before, who was white hot at one time that was so over that they could have been a top guy? Only Randall and Kofi came to mind. Kofi was white hot like fire a few years back, but now he's relegated to being beaten in 30 seconds. Who's cereal did he pee in?


    :
    When it comes down to it a gimmick can it as great as they come, but if the booking/storylines aren't interesting, it's going to flop(sadly the route the Shield is going.) Booking can make the show must-watch or absolute shit. They need to get rid of the D-list movie actors/writers they have and get actual wrestling minds in there (Heyman, Cornette, and Trips to start). Maybe even bring Russo in, I don't care just get people who actually WATCH the sport so that they understand what works. I feel like I strayed from what I wanted to say at first though, this is where Cena fans might want to use ear muffs.
    This, that part in bold. Heyman could book the show like how it should, but the man with the last say is usually Vince. Now let's say, he goes to Smackdown and do what he did years ago on there, I'd rather that.


    Cornette, is, much like me at times, stuck in the past.


    Hunter, I don't know if he's even interested. Plus he's got his hands full with doing executive stuff.


    I would have liked them to pick up Adam Pearce, Sapolsky and Quackenbush. But the person I'd love to see help them, would be Raven. They guy knows his ***.


    Also, no one is a character really. No one has cool names. No one. They all cut promos in a similar way and no one exactly STANDS out. You can wrestle a great match, but if the fans can't connect with you, then the company doesn't seem to care.


    :
    Cena is what has killed the industry. Stories are slowly starting to leak from lower stars (Tyler Reks, Derrick Bateman) of the antics Cena does and its shockingly reminiscent of Hulk Hogan. He has to be the top guy and always pick on the new guys and he even calls out a lower mid-carder because his finisher looks too much like his own (which it doesn't at all.) For a guy that is supposed to embody "Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect"sure doesn't respect his opponents unless their name is Dwayne. This is probably one of the most annoying things that Cena does. He absolutely degrades the guy he's facing (most recently Ziggler) and makes him seem like he isn't a threat to him. He ruined one of the most promising storylines in a while this way with Nexus and he's done it on multiple times throughout his reign on top. Even CM Punk the #2 guy has been made to see like he can't even contend with Cena without being dirty. If nobody can pin Cena, why does any 10 year old kid want to see anyone but a winner? CM Punk has created/tried to help out as many people as he can on the way to the top. If you don't look good in a feud with CM Punk you're doing something wrong. Daniel Bryan, The Shield, all the members of SES, and even older stars like Triple H and even CENA himself look better when they're facing off against Punk. It's because of his mic work and the fact that in the ring he'll actually put you over. He won't get hit by multiple finishers and a briefcase and still pop up. WWE is in denial if they think that the reason that they can't stars over is because Cena is the only guy that can. It's the fact that he's untouchable and everyone is beneath him.
    I don't know if he's killed it, but he's had his hand in there for a bit. Also all top guys degrade their opponents a lot, DX and The Outsiders were notorious for doing that for years, so let's not go there. Punk did that too many times. The thing with Hogan was that, even if he was a goober, everyone else was eating. Almost everyone in the mid-card and tag teams had a story. Other stuff was going on. Not here and not now, it's not happening in this company.


    The thing about them not looking like a threat is something that really grates my rail. It's annoying, stupid and needs to stop. The 'creative team' needs to b-12 shot and has to change things. I want a face to be a bit scared and a heel to be a bit scared. It has to happen!


    :
    Okay I think I need a break from Cena because it turned into just simply rambling things about him. Although I mentioned about the Reks/Bateman things I still think Cena is a good guy. I also think Hogan is a good guy, but I believe they both have this fear that if they let guys go over then they'll just be forgotten.
    So many people feel that way. It's because, we all know, even though you are great or even good, there is someone else who will always be better.


    :
    That's why I think they need to get rid of all the stupid recaps and give more mic-time to the entire roster. Prime-Time Players are hilarious on WWE: Inbox on Youtube but apparently they can't get any time with the stick on an actual show. Makes no sense. Come to think of it, watch a couple of WWE youtube shows. You'll probably see more personality from guys you never saw before. Mic-time is the key to the mid-card. I'm making another paragraph because this is that damn important.
    I'd like to see them get rid of all their shows except for Raw & Smackdown. I'd have them not tape FCW/NXT or anything, because these men are not robots. They need rest too.


    And if you can't find time on a 3 hour show to make others interesting, something is really wrong.


    :
    Where is the harm in giving the mid-card/tag team more mic time?
    Absolutely nothing!


    I enjoyed your rants.

    Edited on 01/29/2013 8:06pm
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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [4]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
    • posts: 16,859

    You have got to be kidding me. I would believe the WWE is weary of doing something with Orton if it wasn't for the fact that more than half the roster is twiddling their thumbs backstage waiting for a storyline. Guys like Sheamus, The Shield, and your personal favorite Ryback. The WWE is not using Orton, because they don't know what they're doing. If anyone thinks this has to do with Ortons wellness violations, you haven't been tuning in long enough. You can go kill someone, sleep with Vince's daughter, and spit in Lindas face and still get a top spot if it meant a payday for Vince. Like the rematch, Vince is about the second chance, and the third, and the fourth. Bring in money, and you're good. Don't be surprised if Orton's back on top shortly. It has to happen. He sells. And if you sell, Vince likes you.


    And the company is afraid to do anything huge with Orton? What about Ziggler? or Sheamus? or Ryback? or Punk? If you're not named Cena, you don't do anything "huge." You do mediocre. It's designed that way.


    With that said, Orton going through the motion? C'mon. He's one of the most consistent in ring performers in the company. He delivers week in, week out. He's put people over, and he's performed at a high level in the most unusual circumstances. This stupid notion of Orton's not a good in ring performer, or your latest claim of him going through the motions have to stop. I do agree that Orton is a moron for getting two wellness violations. He deserves to get bashed by the IWC and the guys backstage. However questioning his performance? Is absurd. Thank God JR sees the truth.


    BTW, Orton was misused prior to the wellness violation. He was feuding with a Wade Barrett. The same Wade Barrett who now has the pleasure of putting over the young and talented Bo Dallas.

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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [5]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    Randyspeeps wrote:
    You have got to be kidding me. I would believe the WWE is weary of doing something with Orton if it wasn't for the fact that more than half the roster is twiddling their thumbs backstage waiting for a storyline. Guys like Sheamus, The Shield, and your personal favorite Ryback. The WWE is not using Orton, because they don't know what they're doing. If anyone thinks this has to do with Ortons wellness violations, you haven't been tuning in long enough. You can go kill someone, sleep with Vince's daughter, and spit in Lindas face and still get a top spot if it meant a payday for Vince. Like the rematch, Vince is about the second chance, and the third, and the fourth. Bring in money, and you're good. Don't be surprised if Orton's back on top shortly. It has to happen. He sells. And if you sell, Vince likes you.


    And the company is afraid to do anything huge with Orton? What about Ziggler? or Sheamus? or Ryback? or Punk? If you're not named Cena, you don't do anything "huge." You do mediocre. It's designed that way.


    With that said, Orton going through the motion? C'mon. He's one of the most consistent in ring performers in the company. He delivers week in, week out. He's put people over, and he's performed at a high level in the most unusual circumstances. This stupid notion of Orton's not a good in ring performer, or your latest claim of him going through the motions have to stop. I do agree that Orton is a moron for getting two wellness violations. He deserves to get bashed by the IWC and the guys backstage. However questioning his performance? Is absurd. Thank God JR sees the truth.


    BTW, Orton was misused prior to the wellness violation. He was feuding with a Wade Barrett. The same Wade Barrett who now has the pleasure of putting over the young and talented Bo Dallas.

    If he sells, which he does and has and will continue to, then why are the as you say, letting him fall to the side? I think sometimes you seem to turn a blind eye to him and how he's been lately. He does look like he's going to through the motions. He reminds me of Van Dam, get your major moves in, get the crowd to chant your name and leave.


    They are afraid, if they weren't, he'd probably be world champion or in the hunt right now, instead of Sheamus, Show and now Del Rio.


    Was he really misused, was he? He was used consistently on TV, had hell of a lot of time to progress a lot. The company may not know what to do with him, but he looks bored or something.


    The IWC, I hate that term. I hate it on so many levels! ARGH!


    Bo Dallis looks boring. He's probably good, but I'm a Graves fan and he should be in that spot.

    Edited on 01/29/2013 6:12pm
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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [6]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    Get a better BOOKING TEAM!


    No more scripted promos.


    Stop saying you 'respect' all your opponents.


    Better finishers.


    Better wrestling gear.


    Better female wrestlers.


    More managers!


    Where is my Fandango?!!!

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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [7]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
    • posts: 16,859

    telvisnostic wrote:


    Randyspeeps wrote:
    You have got to be kidding me. I would believe the WWE is weary of doing something with Orton if it wasn't for the fact that more than half the roster is twiddling their thumbs backstage waiting for a storyline. Guys like Sheamus, The Shield, and your personal favorite Ryback. The WWE is not using Orton, because they don't know what they're doing. If anyone thinks this has to do with Ortons wellness violations, you haven't been tuning in long enough. You can go kill someone, sleep with Vince's daughter, and spit in Lindas face and still get a top spot if it meant a payday for Vince. Like the rematch, Vince is about the second chance, and the third, and the fourth. Bring in money, and you're good. Don't be surprised if Orton's back on top shortly. It has to happen. He sells. And if you sell, Vince likes you.


    And the company is afraid to do anything huge with Orton? What about Ziggler? or Sheamus? or Ryback? or Punk? If you're not named Cena, you don't do anything "huge." You do mediocre. It's designed that way.


    With that said, Orton going through the motion? C'mon. He's one of the most consistent in ring performers in the company. He delivers week in, week out. He's put people over, and he's performed at a high level in the most unusual circumstances. This stupid notion of Orton's not a good in ring performer, or your latest claim of him going through the motions have to stop. I do agree that Orton is a moron for getting two wellness violations. He deserves to get bashed by the IWC and the guys backstage. However questioning his performance? Is absurd. Thank God JR sees the truth.


    BTW, Orton was misused prior to the wellness violation. He was feuding with a Wade Barrett. The same Wade Barrett who now has the pleasure of putting over the young and talented Bo Dallas.

    If he sells, which he does and has and will continue to, then why are the as you say, letting him fall to the side? I think sometimes you seem to turn a blind eye to him and how he's been lately. He does look like he's going to through the motions. He reminds me of Van Dam, get your major moves in, get the crowd to chant your name and leave.


    They are afraid, if they weren't, he'd probably be world champion or in the hunt right now, instead of Sheamus, Show and now Del Rio.


    Was he really misused, was he? He was used consistently on TV, had hell of a lot of time to progress a lot. The company may not know what to do with him, but he looks bored or something.


    The IWC, I hate that term. I hate it on so many levels! ARGH!


    Bo Dallis looks boring. He's probably good, but I'm a Graves fan and he should be in that spot.


    I turn no blind eye. In fact, I'm a realist. I see it. I call it. And Orton isn't going through the motions. It's funny that you're talking about getting your big moves out, and let the crowd cheer for you. I didn't know that was an Orton problem. Isn't that the MO of the WWE? In fact, Orton actually has solid matches, despite not facing top talent. Was his match on Raw going through the motions? How about his match with Heath Slater, that was actually quite good. Was that going through the motions as well?


    Cena sells too. He sells so much that he was facing Big Johnny at a PPV. I guess that constitutes as smart booking, and I'm turning the blind eye? Please.


    And if you think Orton hasn't progressed. Don't listen to me. Go read Bret Harts and Jr's comments on him. I'll take their word any day. The fact that our opinions aligned is good enough for me.


    IWC, as Ziggler would say, whatevs. It's alive.


    I've been fighting the Orton war for a long time. Trust me I'm not the blind one here.

    Edited on 01/29/2013 6:23pm
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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [8]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
    • posts: 16,859

    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!



    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent

    Edited on 01/29/2013 6:25pm
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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [9]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    Randyspeeps wrote:
    I turn no blind eye. In fact, I'm a realist. I see it. I call it. And Orton isn't going through the motions. It's funny that you're talking about getting your big moves out, and let the crowd cheer for you. I didn't know that was an Orton problem. Isn't that the MO of the WWE? In fact, Orton actually has solid matches, despite not facing top talent. Was his match on Raw going through the motions? How about his match with Heath Slater, that was actually quite good. Was that going through the motions as well?
    I'll give you that. If he wants to, he'll look good.


    :
    Cena sells too. He sells so much that he was facing Big Johnny at a PPV. I guess that constitutes as smart booking, and I'm turning the blind eye? Please.
    I already gave my thoughts on John. Of course he sells, well know that, but, he is the one on top, Orton is not. In another dimension, it's probably the other way around.


    The company is not bumping him down. It's not happening, wo we all have to live with the terrible promos and other dumb things he does.


    :
    And if you think Orton hasn't progressed. Don't listen to me. Go read Bret Harts and Jr's comments on him. I'll take their word any day. The fact that our opinions aligned is good enough for me.
    I have never said he hasn't progressed. He's actually gotten better and I have always given him his due as a wrestler. JR And Hart are fine to be in line with. I'll take my chances with Madden.


    :
    WC, as Ziggler would say, whatevs. It's alive.
    Whomever came up with the term needs to be slapped. The old Martin's Mom slap.


    :
    I've been fighting the Orton war for a long time. Trust me I'm not the blind one here.
    It's not a fight, we just disagree.

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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [10]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!
    Hey, I never said The Ryback is better than Randall. I just said that he will get better with time.


    :
    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent
    I hate no one. I just don't like him and most likely never will, but I will never deny his talent, same with Punk.

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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [11]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
    • posts: 16,859
    [QUOTE="telvisnostic"]

    Randyspeeps wrote:
    :
    And if you think Orton hasn't progressed. Don't listen to me. Go read Bret Harts and Jr's comments on him. I'll take their word any day. The fact that our opinions aligned is good enough for me.
    I have never said he hasn't progressed. He's actually gotten better and I have always given him his due as a wrestler. JR And Hart are fine to be in line with. I'll take my chances with Madden.
    Not fair. I'm a Maddenist and you know that. Cheap shot.
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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [12]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
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    telvisnostic wrote:


    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!
    Hey, I never said The Ryback is better than Randall. I just said that he will get better with time.


    :
    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent
    I hate no one. I just don't like him and most likely never will, but I will never deny his talent, same with Punk.


    I joined this site in 2007. Since 2007 I've patrolled this forum and battled against all Orton hate. I'm sure you knew your comment would have caused a reaction. It's my Tv.com calling.

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  • Avatar of JLe1223

    JLe1223

    [13]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 03/04/07
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 1,930

    telvisnostic wrote:


    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!
    Hey, I never said The Ryback is better than Randall. I just said that he will get better with time.


    :
    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent
    I hate no one. I just don't like him and most likely never will, but I will never deny his talent, same with Punk.



    You don't like Punk?

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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [14]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    JLe1223 wrote:
    telvisnostic wrote:
    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!
    Hey, I never said The Ryback is better than Randall. I just said that he will get better with time.
    :
    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent
    I hate no one. I just don't like him and most likely never will, but I will never deny his talent, same with Punk.
    You don't like Punk?
    Never have and never will (and this his from his Indie days too). I'm just not a fan.

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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [15]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/02/07
    • level: 34
    • rank: Wardrobe Malfunction
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    telvisnostic wrote:


    JLe1223 wrote:
    telvisnostic wrote:
    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Orton > Ryback. Orton won't be the one dancing with Brodus 5 months from now. Wanna know why? He's actually good!
    Hey, I never said The Ryback is better than Randall. I just said that he will get better with time.
    :
    Telvis, stop the Orton hate. It's not healthy. Especially in the era of limited talent
    I hate no one. I just don't like him and most likely never will, but I will never deny his talent, same with Punk.
    You don't like Punk?
    Never have and never will (and this his from his Indie days too). I'm just not a fan.


    Can I ask why? Is it his look?

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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [16]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 06/27/05
    • level: 52
    • rank: Guzzlefish
    • posts: 25,288

    Randyspeeps wrote:
    Can I ask why? Is it his look?
    Nothing clicks. His look is fine.

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  • Avatar of ballin1347

    ballin1347

    [17]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 05/18/07
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 3,014

    Sup.


    I started following Raw again during the buildup to the Royal Rumble. I knew I could count on the RR match to be the one thing I would enjoy regardless of whether or not I was interested in the product anymore. However, I got caught up in the hype for Punk/Rock, mostly out of anger that I thought The Rock would win. I get it, it's a business. The Rock will draw better ratings and better ticket sales, but there's NO excuse for putting the title on him. The man is a part-timer who hasn't shown up in 7 months but for some reason is just handed a title shot? CM Punk has worked his ass off just to become a main stay in the World Title picture. He's been the one working matches and traveling on the road and actually being a full-time employee of the company while The Rock left WWE to go to la-la land and make movies. But he just comes back and is handed the most prestigious title in the world AND the main event of Wrestlemania for what he did 10 years ago?!?!? Are you kidding me? That would be like Joe Montana being put in for Colin Kaepernick in the Super Bowl. It's 2012, not 1999, so why the hell is a guy that was a star 10 years ago being promoted as the face of the company. It's a short-term solution for the business that just makes no sense. The reason why the WWE is struggling is because they rely too much on past timers when they should be devoting the coveted spots like Wrestlemania's main event to the actual wrestlers in the company. Maybe if The Rock was still any good, I wouldn't be as angry. But the man has lost it. He can't wrestle for 5 minutes without getting winded (Punk carried the whole match) and he can't even cut a decent promo anymore. People complain that Cena is doing the same old sh*t? If Rock mentions twitter or kisses the fan's ass or tries to get a laugh by using the word "b*tch" one more time I'm going to go straight to WWE headquarters and punch the collective creative team in the face.


    Oh, and another thing. Punk has beaten Daniel Bryan, ADR, Mark Henry, John Cena, Ryback, The Big Show, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, and others during his reign. These are the top stars of the company, guys who wrestle every day. But this rusty celebrity who hasn't wrestled in a year beats him WITH A PEOPLE'S ELBOW? Are you freaking kidding me? I just don't get how people can boo Cena and cheer Rock when they're exactly the same, Rock being worse. Rock was beat up the whole match, powerbombed through a table, but in 30 seconds he completely recharges and hits one move to end it? At least Cena has "5 moves of doom". Rock seems to only need one. Whatever, Vince. Get your ratings now, but if you don't build your stars now you're not gonna have any part-timers to rely on 20 years from now. As for me, maybe I'll give the rest of the Wrestlemania season a try. But after this complete injustice to Punk and all the other members of the roster who actually WORK for their TV time, I can't see myself enjoying WWE any longer.



    So yeah, I'm back and I'm angry. Thanks for making this thread Nick.

    Edited on 01/29/2013 10:21pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [18]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 11/05/07
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 3,074

    Wow! It's awesome to come home to 14 new posts in the span of a couple hours, it means that a good discussion is happening. Now that I got home I just thought of some other things I want to say.



    First off, Daniel Bryan. He seems to be that Mr. Perfect, Owen Hart mold in which he always makes his opponents look great, nobody ever has a problem with them, and (most importantly) is ALWAYS overlooked. IMO Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk was the feud of the year just because you felt like they were on equal playing ground and the matches were the best the WWE has seen in years. Team Hell No has run it's course and it's time for a split. They've almost single-handedlyreturned the tag team to a bit of relevance. Team Rhodes Scholars needs to get the belts because the Uso's need a push and they need a heel tag team to do that. I just hope once Team Hell No are done they don't just scrap the tag team all together. It has so much potential, they just need a couple more teams for it to be a very interesting division.



    Daniel Bryan should continue his crusade to save the WWE piece by piece by splitting with Kane and going on a fast track for the Intercontinental title. Daniel Bryan is arguably the most over character in the WWE currently because from every single spoiler of Smackdown! I read or just simple watching a RAW the crowd gives the biggest pop of the night for Daniel Bryan (not counting returning stars like Lesnar or Rock.) He could be a great launching pad for heels in that division to actually matter. I would love as much as anyone to see D-Bry in the Main Event but currently it's way too congested. The mid-card is exactly what should prep him for a singles run for the big gold. He is the best WRESTLER in the world and it's a time for him to continue his fan-fueled rocket to the top.



    This one was smaller but I just really think Daniel Bryan is a future star they need to prep for the big time. Plus since they have no place for the shield to go the idea of a Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose feud sounds like a shot in the leg the mid-card could use. This is totally off topic but I also think Reigns and Rollins should be a tag team for now.

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  • Avatar of JLe1223

    JLe1223

    [19]Jan 29, 2013
    • member since: 03/04/07
    • level: 20
    • rank: Cow Bell
    • posts: 1,930
    ballin1347 wrote:

    Sup.


    I started following Raw again during the buildup to the Royal Rumble. I knew I could count on the RR match to be the one thing I would enjoy regardless of whether or not I was interested in the product anymore. However, I got caught up in the hype for Punk/Rock, mostly out of anger that I thought The Rock would win. I get it, it's a business. The Rock will draw better ratings and better ticket sales, but there's NO excuse for putting the title on him. The man is a part-timer who hasn't shown up in 7 months but for some reason is just handed a title shot? CM Punk has worked his ass off just to become a main stay in the World Title picture. He's been the one working matches and traveling on the road and actually being a full-time employee of the company while The Rock left WWE to go to la-la land and make movies. But he just comes back and is handed the most prestigious title in the world AND the main event of Wrestlemania for what he did 10 years ago?!?!? Are you kidding me? That would be like Joe Montana being put in for Colin Kaepernick in the Super Bowl. It's 2012, not 1999, so why the hell is a guy that was a star 10 years ago being promoted as the face of the company. It's a short-term solution for the business that just makes no sense. The reason why the WWE is struggling is because they rely too much on past timers when they should be devoting the coveted spots like Wrestlemania's main event to the actual wrestlers in the company. Maybe if The Rock was still any good, I wouldn't be as angry. But the man has lost it. He can't wrestle for 5 minutes without getting winded (Punk carried the whole match) and he can't even cut a decent promo anymore. People complain that Cena is doing the same old sh*t? If Rock mentions twitter or kisses the fan's ass or tries to get a laugh by using the word "b*tch" one more time I'm going to go straight to WWE headquarters and punch the collective creative team in the face.




    The Rock draws big ratings Punk doesn't. I think the failure of utlizing talent is the WWE's fault
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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [20]Jan 30, 2013
    • member since: 11/05/07
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 3,074

    JLe1223 wrote:
    ballin1347 wrote:


    Sup.


    I started following Raw again during the buildup to the Royal Rumble. I knew I could count on the RR match to be the one thing I would enjoy regardless of whether or not I was interested in the product anymore. However, I got caught up in the hype for Punk/Rock, mostly out of anger that I thought The Rock would win. I get it, it's a business. The Rock will draw better ratings and better ticket sales, but there's NO excuse for putting the title on him. The man is a part-timer who hasn't shown up in 7 months but for some reason is just handed a title shot? CM Punk has worked his ass off just to become a main stay in the World Title picture. He's been the one working matches and traveling on the road and actually being a full-time employee of the company while The Rock left WWE to go to la-la land and make movies. But he just comes back and is handed the most prestigious title in the world AND the main event of Wrestlemania for what he did 10 years ago?!?!? Are you kidding me? That would be like Joe Montana being put in for Colin Kaepernick in the Super Bowl. It's 2012, not 1999, so why the hell is a guy that was a star 10 years ago being promoted as the face of the company. It's a short-term solution for the business that just makes no sense. The reason why the WWE is struggling is because they rely too much on past timers when they should be devoting the coveted spots like Wrestlemania's main event to the actual wrestlers in the company. Maybe if The Rock was still any good, I wouldn't be as angry. But the man has lost it. He can't wrestle for 5 minutes without getting winded (Punk carried the whole match) and he can't even cut a decent promo anymore. People complain that Cena is doing the same old sh*t? If Rock mentions twitter or kisses the fan's ass or tries to get a laugh by using the word "b*tch" one more time I'm going to go straight to WWE headquarters and punch the collective creative team in the face.


    The Rock draws big ratings Punk doesn't. I think the failure of utlizing talent is the WWE's fault
    Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart drew bad ratings as well. It has nothing to do with the wrestlers and I believe it all relies on the storyline. Name the last big storyline that hasn't involved Cena/Rock.



    I completely agree with you Ballin, Rock basically buried the entire roster. He cleanly pinned the champion of more than a year, proving that nobody in the back, not even your top champion, can beat the dude that hasn't wrestled in a year.

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