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  • Avatar of Deadnight-Majin

    Deadnight-Majin

    [21]Jan 30, 2013
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    goldenagenick24 wrote:


    Wow! It's awesome to come home to 14 new posts in the span of a couple hours, it means that a good discussion is happening. Now that I got home I just thought of some other things I want to say.



    First off, Daniel Bryan. He seems to be that Mr. Perfect, Owen Hart mold in which he always makes his opponents look great, nobody ever has a problem with them, and (most importantly) is ALWAYS overlooked. IMO Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk was the feud of the year just because you felt like they were on equal playing ground and the matches were the best the WWE has seen in years. Team Hell No has run it's course and it's time for a split. They've almost single-handedlyreturned the tag team to a bit of relevance. Team Rhodes Scholars needs to get the belts because the Uso's need a push and they need a heel tag team to do that. I just hope once Team Hell No are done they don't just scrap the tag team all together. It has so much potential, they just need a couple more teams for it to be a very interesting division.



    Daniel Bryan should continue his crusade to save the WWE piece by piece by splitting with Kane and going on a fast track for the Intercontinental title. Daniel Bryan is arguably the most over character in the WWE currently because from every single spoiler of Smackdown! I read or just simple watching a RAW the crowd gives the biggest pop of the night for Daniel Bryan (not counting returning stars like Lesnar or Rock.) He could be a great launching pad for heels in that division to actually matter. I would love as much as anyone to see D-Bry in the Main Event but currently it's way too congested. The mid-card is exactly what should prep him for a singles run for the big gold. He is the best WRESTLER in the world and it's a time for him to continue his fan-fueled rocket to the top.



    This one was smaller but I just really think Daniel Bryan is a future star they need to prep for the big time. Plus since they have no place for the shield to go the idea of a Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose feud sounds like a shot in the leg the mid-card could use. This is totally off topic but I also think Reigns and Rollins should be a tag team for now.


    Bryan is ridiculously over. They should push him to the moon. They should have already, really.

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  • Avatar of Randyspeeps

    Randyspeeps

    [22]Jan 30, 2013
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    Nick, this thread is filled with anger. I love it.
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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [23]Jan 30, 2013
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    ballin1347 wrote:
    Oh, and another thing. Punk has beaten Daniel Bryan, ADR, Mark Henry, John Cena, Ryback, The Big Show, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, and others during his reign. These are the top stars of the company, guys who wrestle every day. But this rusty celebrity who hasn't wrestled in a year beats him WITH A PEOPLE'S ELBOW? Are you freaking kidding me? I just don't get how people can boo Cena and cheer Rock when they're exactly the same, Rock being worse. Rock was beat up the whole match, powerbombed through a table, but in 30 seconds he completely recharges and hits one move to end it? At least Cena has "5 moves of doom". Rock seems to only need one. Whatever, Vince. Get your ratings now, but if you don't build your stars now you're not gonna have any part-timers to rely on 20 years from now. As for me, maybe I'll give the rest of the Wrestlemania season a try. But after this complete injustice to Punk and all the other members of the roster who actually WORK for their TV time, I can't see myself enjoying WWE any longer.
    You know, I think they are the same too. I've actually told that to someone. He's sort of a bad doppelganger or a clone that went bad, but since it's a different era, he stinks.


    Ratings mean so much to this company, that I could see them digging up corpses just to get a big pop out of the fans.


    I'm a nostalgia person, I live it everyday, but even I know how to separate things. The company has been lazy for so long that they feel we will watch no matter what, which is true to a point. I've been switching the station so much, that only 45 minutes at times is what I see.


    They have rested on their laurels, John Cena for so long, that they have forgotten what brought them to the dance. They also seem to either be afraid to create something or trolls the internet to get a rise out of fans just for ****s and giggles. Look where it's gotten them: Bad ratings, shows that don't sell out, PPVs that don't sell like they once did and so on.


    :
    So yeah, I'm back and I'm angry. Thanks for making this thread Nick.
    Welcome back.

    Edited on 01/30/2013 6:55pm
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  • Avatar of JLe1223

    JLe1223

    [24]Jan 30, 2013
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    They're lazy and now it's gotten them in a corner with Cena getting older.
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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [25]Jan 30, 2013
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    JLe1223 wrote:
    They're lazy and now it's gotten them in a corner with Cena getting older.
    And now it's time for him to help others too.

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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [26]Jan 30, 2013
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    Thank you PWinsider for this, but the not the very last sentence.


    A fan posted question to the fellas and this is how it went:


    Pwinder wrote:
    Fan: Isn't it kind of bad for business when you have Rock come in after not wrestling for 10 years and have him beat all the top guys on your roster. Doesn't that imply everyone on your roster suck?


    PWinsider fella Dave S.: You mean like having John Cena beat almost everyone on your roster, or Triple H coming out last year and saying Undertaker is the only guy in WWE that can give him a fight? Yeah, I get your point. WWE definitely has done a poor job in building young talent. There is no doubt about that. With that said, Rock is a legend so I can understand him getting some wins.

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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [27]Jan 31, 2013
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    El Generico, Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Antonio Cesaro, Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Erick Rowan, Adrian Neville, Corey Graves, Conor O'Brian, Leo Kruger, Richie Steamboat, Wade Barrett, Bo Dallas, Bray Wyatt, Kassius Ohno, Alberto Del Rio, Randy Orton, Big E Langston, Dolph Ziggler, Justin Gabriel, Michael Mcgillicutty, and more.



    I've stated before I believe WWE wields the best roster it's ever had and is in store for a renaissance of sorts where the product is going to see a spike in interest because of how good some of their prospects are. If the viewership doesn't go up, I'm sure at least the product will. I want to discuss if you agree with my statement about this roster being the best talent wise and if you disagree, point to a time where you think it was better.



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  • Avatar of telvisnostic

    telvisnostic

    [28]Jan 31, 2013
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    goldenagenick24 wrote:
    El Generico, Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne, Tyson Kidd, Antonio Cesaro, Damien Sandow, Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Erick Rowan, Adrian Neville, Corey Graves, Conor O'Brian, Leo Kruger, Richie Steamboat, Wade Barrett, Bo Dallas, Bray Wyatt, Kassius Ohno, Alberto Del Rio, Randy Orton, Big E Langston, Dolph Ziggler, Justin Gabriel, Michael Mcgillicutty, and more.
    That's a really good roster.


    :
    I've stated before I believe WWE wields the best roster it's ever had and is in store for a renaissance of sorts where the product is going to see a spike in interest because of how good some of their prospects are. If the viewership doesn't go up, I'm sure at least the product will. I want to discuss if you agree with my statement about this roster being the best talent wise and if you disagree, point to a time where you think it was better.
    I won't say best ever, because I try not to say best, unless I'm joking.


    I do think they have a hell of a roster, that with the right angle, with the right characters, good finishers, great talkers and such, they could totally raise the bar and do well for years to come for the company.


    They have like 15 people in the list, that are not main eventers, that could break the glass ceiling, which is hard to do. I shall name them:


    -Sandow


    -Cesaro


    -Rhodes


    -Wyatt (cult leader in the making!)


    -Ohno (needs a better finisher)


    -Graves


    -O'Brien


    -Barrett (he just needs something)


    -Kingston (same as above)


    -Reigns


    -Ambrose (try being someone not the Joker)


    -Neville


    -Langston


    -The Ryback


    -Kidd

    Edited on 01/31/2013 4:00pm
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  • Avatar of ballin1347

    ballin1347

    [29]Jan 31, 2013
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    telvisnostic wrote:


    ballin1347 wrote:
    Oh, and another thing. Punk has beaten Daniel Bryan, ADR, Mark Henry, John Cena, Ryback, The Big Show, Chris Jericho, Dolph Ziggler, and others during his reign. These are the top stars of the company, guys who wrestle every day. But this rusty celebrity who hasn't wrestled in a year beats him WITH A PEOPLE'S ELBOW? Are you freaking kidding me? I just don't get how people can boo Cena and cheer Rock when they're exactly the same, Rock being worse. Rock was beat up the whole match, powerbombed through a table, but in 30 seconds he completely recharges and hits one move to end it? At least Cena has "5 moves of doom". Rock seems to only need one. Whatever, Vince. Get your ratings now, but if you don't build your stars now you're not gonna have any part-timers to rely on 20 years from now. As for me, maybe I'll give the rest of the Wrestlemania season a try. But after this complete injustice to Punk and all the other members of the roster who actually WORK for their TV time, I can't see myself enjoying WWE any longer.
    You know, I think they are the same too. I've actually told that to someone. He's sort of a bad doppelganger or a clone that went bad, but since it's a different era, he stinks.


    Ratings mean so much to this company, that I could see them digging up corpses just to get a big pop out of the fans.


    I'm a nostalgia person, I live it everyday, but even I know how to separate things. The company has been lazy for so long that they feel we will watch no matter what, which is true to a point. I've been switching the station so much, that only 45 minutes at times is what I see.


    They have rested on their laurels, John Cena for so long, that they have forgotten what brought them to the dance. They also seem to either be afraid to create something or trolls the internet to get a rise out of fans just for ****s and giggles. Look where it's gotten them: Bad ratings, shows that don't sell out, PPVs that don't sell like they once did and so on.


    :
    So yeah, I'm back and I'm angry. Thanks for making this thread Nick.
    Welcome back.


    Thank you. And yeah, you put it exactly right. The only reason Rock gets pops is for nostalgia and what he's done, which is why people like me who didn't watch wrestling during that era can objectively judge how he's affecting the roster and how poorly he's performing. The ratings might be up but the product is going downhill.

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  • Avatar of Raccoon1459

    Raccoon1459

    [30]Feb 1, 2013
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    What does the WWE see in John Cena? Besides a way to make money.
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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [31]Feb 1, 2013
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    Raccoon1459 wrote:
    What does the WWE see in John Cena? Besides a way to make money.
    A kid-friendy face, the closes to mainstream media guy they have, and someone who works his ass off.



    The guy has been the top guy for so many years and that's really impressive, it just hurts us actual wrestling fans and not thefair weatherones or 8 year olds.

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  • Avatar of Wisp955

    Wisp955

    [32]Feb 1, 2013
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    The WWE has lost their way when it comes to writing faces and heels. Nowadays there are no differences. It would have been acceptable if they were presented as people with different points of view but, it is made clear who you're supposed to cheer for and who you're supposed to boo. How are people going to boo someone in a pitiable position? Why should I cheer for someone who's a complete jerk? We're supposed to cheer for Cena when it's obvious that he's a heel. We're told in many ways on how Cena is a good person and, if you boo him you're awful. They are willing to insult their audience to get cheers for this dude.
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  • Avatar of Deadnight-Majin

    Deadnight-Majin

    [33]Feb 1, 2013
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    The roster is very talented Nick, and there are lot of good guys, but not enough great ones. Ten years ago you had Austin, Rock, Angle, Lesnar, Trips on top, with talent like Guerrero, Benoit, RVD, Edge and Jeff Hardy underneath, the clear future top stars. I just don't see it in many of the current roster guys. I think Ambrose is going to be a massive heel though.

    Edited on 02/01/2013 3:09pm
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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [34]Feb 1, 2013
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    Deadnight-Majin wrote:


    The roster is very talented Nick, and there are lot of good guys, but enough great ones. Ten years ago you had Austin, Rock, Angle, Lesnar, Trips on top, with talent like Guerrero, Benoit, RVD, Edge and Jeff Hardy underneath, the clear future top stars. I just don't see it in many of the current roster guys. I think Ambrose is going to be a massive heel though.


    The itfactor all comes down to writing. RVD, Jeff Hardy, Benoit, and Lesnar can barely speak on the mic, but they were written well so they seemed like a threat. Also you have to remember what this all comes down to. Cena has been the unquestionably top guy for almost a decade now. Nobody besides Hogan is even close that length.

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  • Avatar of Deadnight-Majin

    Deadnight-Majin

    [35]Feb 1, 2013
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    goldenagenick24 wrote:


    Deadnight-Majin wrote:


    The roster is very talented Nick, and there are lot of good guys, but enough great ones. Ten years ago you had Austin, Rock, Angle, Lesnar, Trips on top, with talent like Guerrero, Benoit, RVD, Edge and Jeff Hardy underneath, the clear future top stars. I just don't see it in many of the current roster guys. I think Ambrose is going to be a massive heel though.


    The itfactor all comes down to writing. RVD, Jeff Hardy, Benoit, and Lesnar can barely speak on the mic, but they were written well so they seemed like a threat. Also you have to remember what this all comes down to. Cena has been the unquestionably top guy for almost a decade now. Nobody besides Hogan is even close that length.


    It's not just the writing though. Jeff Hardy connected with the audience on multiple levels, he looked cool so the young/teenage boys wanted to look like him, the ladies liked him because he was attractive, he did flippy stuff that was really innovative for the time, and people loved his apparent will to kill himself for their entertainment. Benoit had intensity, and RVD was another innovative high flyer who also had the ECW factor to add to his cool factor. He was wayyy over in WWE straight away Those three guys got themselves over, it wasn't like say, Bobby Lashley, who was just pushed into the spotlight without the fans really calling for it.


    There's more to charisma than simply mic skills.

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  • Avatar of seinfeld111690

    seinfeld111690

    [36]Feb 2, 2013
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    I don't really see that many problems that have recently popped up. Professional wrestling is just no longer that popular and most of the wrestlers either suck or are incredibly misused.


    The only reason The Rock is able to walk away from wrestling for almost ten years and come back and become the WWE Champion again is because their are so few people that WWE has at their exposure to be the Champion. Don't get me wrong their are people on the roster that have the talent to do it but nobody is being pushed correctly.


    I've just come to accept professional wrestling in the WWE for what it is, it's a pretty crappy overall product with some very good segments every once in awhile. Just enjoy those occasional good segments and hope that more things start to click.


    And please merge the WWE Championship/WHC. I love the big gold belt but it serves very little purpose in the WWE. You can have all the meaningless titles underneath the WWE Championship, just don't confuse people with two top tier championships.

    Edited on 02/02/2013 12:56am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of JLe1223

    JLe1223

    [37]Feb 2, 2013
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    seinfeld111690 wrote:

    I don't really see that many problems that have recently popped up. Professional wrestling is just no longer that popular and most of the wrestlers either suck or are incredibly misused.


    The only reason The Rock is able to walk away from wrestling for almost ten years and come back and become the WWE Champion again is because their are so few people that WWE has at their exposure to be the Champion. Don't get me wrong their are people on the roster that have the talent to do it but nobody is being pushed correctly.


    I've just come to accept professional wrestling in the WWE for what it is, it's a pretty crappy overall product with some very good segments every once in awhile. Just enjoy those occasional good segments and hope that more things start to click.


    And please merge the WWE Championship/WHC. I love the big gold belt but it serves very little purpose in the WWE. You can have all the meaningless titles underneath the WWE Championship, just don't confuse people with two top tier championships.



    That's pretty much what I do now and days, just watch and hope for the best.
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  • Avatar of TVRULEZ222

    TVRULEZ222

    [38]Feb 2, 2013
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    Honestly as much as people say they hated the rumble the raw after had its highest rating since raw 1000 but still Cena/Rock is pretty annoying i really hope they add in punk as a triple threat thats the only way of saving it and with the part time thing yeah it does get annoying having them take up spots from guys like gabriel, kidd, and others but at the same time guys like Lesnar and Rock and HHH are bringing back some of the old fans so i do think its a good thing having them show up at the big ppvs and i know im in a minority here but ive been enjoying wwe so far in the new year and i think its gonna be a way better year than 2012

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  • Avatar of goldenagenick24

    goldenagenick24

    [39]Feb 6, 2013
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    New discussion/debate:



    Where can the tag team division go from here?



    Daniel Bryan and Kane are nearing their end. It's inevitable because these two are running stale and I doubt Kane wants his last run to be in the tag division. I'm going to look at many facets including who I think should be a tag team and who I think should break up, but let's take a look at the current tag division:



    Team Hell No!


    Sinsterio (Rey Mysterio & Sin Cara)


    Prime Time Players


    The Usos


    Primo & Epico


    3 Man Band



    I decided not to include International Airstrike because of the major injury to Tyson Kidd and the fact that they were never used anyway. Well anyways, the scariest part about this whole scene is that the top two teams are going to break up in the very near future. Team Hell No! are turning on each other again and Sinsterio was built primarily so that they could feud. Add in the rumor that Mcmahon is so high on Titus O'Neil that he wants him to have a singles push and you have a scary outlook of only two tag teams remaining. I'm not saying the Usos and P&E aren't good, it's just they aren't very over and with them leading the division you can imagine they aren't going to get any mic time. It's a scary thing in the WWE that the same exact people always get the mic time on WWE TV. No matter who the WWE champion is, you'd be hard pressed to find a week of WWE television without CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler, John Cena, and Team Hell No! void from your television screens. Meanwhile guys like Wade Barrett, Kofi Kingston, and the rest of the tag division left floundering because the fans aren't interested. Then THEY get blamed for not being able to get over. This is reverting back to an old rant I had, but if you give more obscure guys mic time and put more stock in the Mid-card/Tag/womens divison you'll find it to be a hell of a lot easier when you're trying to push them up the card. Now it gets more into the future/predictionsportion of my spiel. The WWE is chock full of unused talent like I said earlier and I think the best way they can make this a positive is by increasing the tag divison. I'm also going to add in tag teams that I think could come back or reunite into the WWE who may be not currently employed or in NXT. Without further ado, here are my tag teams that I think can make a big impact:



    Miz & Morrison- The Miz face turn isn't going as well as planned but I don't think you should ditch the idea altogether. He just needs a little seasoning and the fact that he barely wrestles anymore doesn't help much. Miz needs a co-host, a partner, and having a returning John Morrison join his side once again would just be a no-brainer. Having a co-hosted Miz&Mo show would be something creative and new and also would provide something for Miz to do while giving Morrison a nice transition into returning.



    Kings Of Wrestling (Antonio Cesaro and Kassius Ohno)- In my opinion, this is a no-brainer. The WWE obviously believes in Antonio Cesaro, but the crowd just couldn't seem to care less. Everyone and their mother sees the immense amount of talent but his gimmick is one of the oldest ones in the book. He needs a change and I think an ally would be the perfect fit. It would introduce Kassius Ohno to the WWE main roster while giving Cesaro something fresh to do. He needs to stay a heel, and a ridiculous character change out of nowhere would be cheesy and wouldn't go over well so put him in a tag team and make it less about America, and more about being better than everyone else. We have enough coward heels around here, I think it's time for some heels that just want to get their hands dirty by pummeling dudes.



    Brodus Clay & Tensai- OK, hear me out. Brodus Clay and Tensai are two major flops in the WWE recently. Both on fire when they debuted their gimmicks only to fall to the deepest depths of jobber-world. That doesn't change the fact that both men are very good in the ring for their size and can be a intimidating force that the tag divison will be missing without Kane. I could see them being a joke tag team or a monster heel tag team (my preference) but either way this could be exactly what is needed to keep these guys relevant.



    SHIELD (Rollins & Reigns)- Why has this not happened yet? I'm completely fine with the Shields current direction of being in the same ring with the top dogs, but that isn't going to last forever and the WWE needs to get them out of there quickly if they're going to avoid them being buried alive. I think a win at Elimination Chamber and a huge match at Wrestlemania against Team Hell No! would be exactly what the tag divison could need to pass the torch and set up Team Hell No!s split while keeping it's titles relevant. The Shield also needs something besides these big gimmick matches and random jumpings. This may single out Ambrose but since many agree he is IWC-appointed leader of the group I think he'd be a perfect fit for the void left by Cesaro in the mid-card. Ambrose is a loner and I'm suprised he works in the Shield, because this dude is the type of guy that doesn't work well with others.



    Christian & Evan Bourne- Christian is not going to be thrusted straight into the Main event. I just can't see it happening. Bourne is going to basically be starting from scratch since his recent luck has left him unseen for what feels like years. Christian and Bourne is an interesting dynamic because not only does Christian give the tag divison the star power it needs, but he gives Bourne a push just by being associated with him. Christian coming back being a heel would be a mistake with a lot of big names dominating that scene in the near future so this would give him a chance to ease back in AND possibly recreate some great moments that Christian and Edge perfected.



    Bray Wyatts "family"- Once again an NXT product that needs to be called up. Most of you know Bray Wyatt as "Husky Harris" but the transformation he's done in NXT has been astonishing. He's one of the biggest candidates to get called up after Wrestlemania so why not bring his stable with him? If you start him out as a manager for his followers before throwing him in the ring the crowd will have a pretty good understanding of his character and purpose before he's in a feud.



    Well there you have it. My tagdivisionwould look like this after the departures of PTP, Sinsterio, and Team Hell No!. I made this simply because a lot of forums I've seen are saying the tag division is going to fade back into obscurity with so many teams leaving but I believe (hope) that Trips doesn't give up on something that made 2012 so enjoyable. Let's take a look at the new divison:



    The Usos


    Primo & Epico


    John Morrison & The Miz


    Kings Of Wrestling


    Brodus Clay & Tensai


    SHIELD (Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins)


    Christian & Evan Bourne


    Bray Wyatts "family"



    While it may be a little crowded, that would be the best tag divison we've seen in years. If they want the division to be exciting, they need to have a competitive field and that's what I believe has been hurting Team Hell No!. Everyone knows most of the tag teams aren't going to go over them so it's too predictable.



    Well tell me your thoughts on the tag division, my dream division, and YOUR outlook on the division.

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  • Avatar of Crulex1369

    Crulex1369

    [40]Feb 6, 2013
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    MizMo- I like the idea of Miz and Morrison because they are one of my favorite tag teams. Both are talented, both are great on the mic and both are doing jack sqaut right now, so go for it.

    Wyatts Family- I like Harris's new deal and having him team up with another amazing NXT member would not be too bad. Shield- I don't have to say how much I like Shield. As a tag team of mercenaries with the power and speed combo, they would be nice to have and it would help them avoid the pile made for people like Yoshi Tatsu.

    Kings of Wrestling- Anyone who knows me know how much I want Chris Hero (I refuse to use his WWE name) on the main roster. Like yesterday. The guy needs to be on my screen. And I am loving Antonio Cesaro, even with the played out gimmick. Two wrestlers who have so far been either loved by fans everywhere for thier skills or have made it in WWE for now put together, who have history together, would be great.

    Brotus Clay and Tensai- I'm intrigued by the idea, but I hate Brotus Clay's non-RIP IT UP gimmick (I liked it at first, but now I am over it) and I don't like Tensai either. I'm meh on this one, but it looks like it will happen anyway so we'll see.

    Christian and Evan Bourne- The only idea you suggested that I don't like yet. Evan hasn't had screen time in a while for a reason, and that's because his *ss can't stop doing stupid things backstage. Unless he shapes up real damn quick or has shaped up since his last screw up, I see no reason to take that risk again. Christian would be playing Russian Roulette just like Kofi Kingston did.

    The Usos and the Primico's- The token family teams, so that's fine with me. Hope the Uso's get at least run with the tag titles, seeing as they are the only real tag team left besides Primo and Epico.
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