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Robin, where are you?

  • Avatar of Korassu

    Korassu

    [1]Sep 21, 2011
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    Am I the only one who thinks Robin has gotten stiffed in this show(in character development)? It seems like almost every time Robin is in an episode, he's either disappearing and is laughing in the shadows, hacking a computer, or explaining something. In 10 episodes(soon to be 11), there has been a miss martian episode(3), superboy(5), aqualad(, and even an episode and a half of red arrow(6 and 10) who isn't even part of the team yet. Ontop of that, just about every single episode has something about miss martian and superboy, either about their relationship or just individually, both Kid Flash and Artemis, while not having an episode focused on them, but they got a bit of development in both episode 7 and 9, not to mention the little part in episode 8(though everyone but red arrow got a piece of that episode). So far all I've seen of robin is mainly in episode 4(minor in my opinion) and the tiny bit he got episode 8.


    After rewatching episode 4, i suppose it could be argued that it is a robin focused episode, but if anything, based on the result, its probably closer to a Aqualad episode, or at the very least both of them got a piece of it, still leaving robin behind when you tally it up. Hearing that Artemis is going to Robins school did make me a bit happy, but finding out that episode 11 is gonna focus on Miss Martian and Superboy AGAIN(they just got a chunk out of episode 10) really disappointed me.

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [2]Sep 22, 2011
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    Well, his being missing for entire episodes could be because he's the most active outside of the group. Gotham is a pretty nasty place so it probably takes up a lot of his time.



    Superboy spends 100% of his time with the group / in the cave


    Miss Martian, from my understanding, doesn't do that many heroics outside of the group (yet).


    Kid Flash has super speed so he can dedicate a lot of time/effort to multiple places.



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  • Avatar of Korassu

    Korassu

    [3]Sep 23, 2011
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    Maybe i was alittle unclear about my point. While your probably right about the reason why he's not even every episode, my problem is that even in the episodes he is in, you almost never find out anything about him. Given he is probably the most well known character out of all the sidekicks in young justice, but considering this is another universe, he should still get nearly as much character development. So far he's got almost nothing in the character development area.

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  • Avatar of teenj12

    teenj12

    [4]Sep 28, 2011
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    I agree with you, He deserves more episode. MM & Superboy do kinda hog up the whole show.
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  • Avatar of Nerdinja

    Nerdinja

    [5]Oct 1, 2011
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    It does seem that lately it is all about Superboy and Miss Martian, I'm getting kind of tired of them. I'm glad that they finally had an episode where Robin had more than one line. Hopefully these next episodes will have more Robin and less Superboy/Miss Martian.

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [6]Oct 7, 2011
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    Well, Robin has had a lot of cartoon air time in the past with the various Batman: TAS seasons and versions and Teen Titans. Everyone knows the Dick Grayson back-story in one form or another, and we've seen him grow up with Batman and learn to do his thing in a couple of things.


    Meanwhile, the rest of the characters are pretty much brand new to the whole cartoon world... so they probably want to spend some time focusing on them, building up their back-stories, having them grow emotionally, etc.



    I imagine we'll eventually have more focus on him, and as it stands he got a fair amount of screen time and dialog in Homefront. We even saw him in his civilian guise following Artemis.

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  • Avatar of Korassu

    Korassu

    [7]Dec 9, 2011
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    While I pretty much said half of that, and not to say i disagree or anything, but it is completely stupid to leave him out of it. That's like inviting a ton of people to the party, then telling the popular guy, "Everyone already knows you, go sit in the corner," it simply isn't done. Keep in mind this show is probably trying to grab a new crowd of people, ones that probably arent old enough to have seen Batman TAS, or maybe even the Teen Titans series, so from that view point, it doesn't make any sense either.

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [8]Dec 9, 2011
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    Korassu wrote:


    While I pretty much said half of that, and not to say i disagree or anything, but it is completely stupid to leave him out of it. That's like inviting a ton of people to the party, then telling the popular guy, "Everyone already knows you, go sit in the corner," it simply isn't done. Keep in mind this show is probably trying to grab a new crowd of people, ones that probably arent old enough to have seen Batman TAS, or maybe even the Teen Titans series, so from that view point, it doesn't make any sense either.




    The party analogy isn't that great... it's more like a meet-and-greet where you're introducing some new people (like new employees) to a group. In this case, the new team to the audience instead of new hires to the department.


    In this case, most people are already very familiar with Robin. So it's like if among the new hires, one of the guys is someone that everyone already knew/worked-with when he was a consultant. Sure they introduce him, but there's a lot of emphasis in getting to know the NEW people.


    They have to build up the backstory, popularity, etc. It's a common issue when mixing well-known and less-well-known groups of people. I mean look at the Justice League Unlimited first season. Even when there would be a main/known team member on the team (like Wonder Woman) a lot of the focus was getting us to know the new member (Hawk+Dove, Mister Miracle, Question, Huntress, etc).


    At some point, it normalizes out and they start getting the same amount of attention. I mean, the recent episode Homefrontwas fairly Robin-heavy. Sure Artemis had more focus but Robin had more screentime / lines there than a couple of episodes combined.


    Then again, if Robin continues to remain a bit player that would stink.

    Edited on 12/09/2011 8:51am
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  • Avatar of sk_razor

    sk_razor

    [9]Dec 9, 2011
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    If you ask me it looks like the producers want to attract more girls to watch the show. As boys generally dislike watching mushy teenage relationship crap in action shows that are supposed to be about action.

    So far as Robin goes. I got disappointed right of the bat with him.
    The only one who knew about the space station base was red arrow and thats because green arrow told him. Anybody being trained by Batman should know that already. Not to mention they actually gapped out further by showing Robin easily hacking justice league systems. The only thing they left him with is the attitude and they decided to humiliate that with black canary's therapy session after the mind training meltdown.

    Coherent about him is only that he didn't take the lead to begin with on account of his impatience. It corresponded with most Robin chars out there.

    And this show cant even remotely compare to JLU. JLU has the greatest amount of maturity compared to most cartoons EVER. For instance I haven't seen a more mature and convincing Lex Luthor (or pretty much any other hero or villain) in movies or cartoons. To think of it, there is not one character in can think to complain about!(Except we didn't see enough of some) Not to mention that the relationship stories didn't intrude so much on the main episode plot.


    Yes, they try to mix a good portion of mature reasoning. But overall it doesn't come out right in the overall experience. And "hello Megan" brings us back to the days of early Scooby Doo, where they relentlessly repeated some phrases every single episode. Even mind numbing cartoons like cow and chicken didn't afford that.


    So alternate universe or not. I think this show is getting close to fighting villains like Mojo Jojo, while rescuing a lost poodle.

    I almost pissed my pants of laughter when I saw how pathetic this shows Joker is.


    But who knows, maybe their rating charts are satisfactory to them. I think that their high-profile tasks and villains can't sustain so much bullshit in the entire theme.


    I would trade this show for more JLU in a heartbeat. I would even trade it for something as old and outdated as the Swat Kats.

    Edited on 12/09/2011 1:57pm
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [10]Dec 12, 2011
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    sk_razor wrote:


    And this show cant even remotely compare to JLU. JLU has the greatest amount of maturity compared to most cartoons EVER. For instance I haven't seen a more mature and convincing Lex Luthor (or pretty much any other hero or villain) in movies or cartoons. To think of it, there is not one character in can think to complain about!(Except we didn't see enough of some) Not to mention that the relationship stories didn't intrude so much on the main episode plot.





    JL and JLU were definitely great. Clancy Brown's Lex Luthor and Dana Delany's Lois Lane are the epitome of those 2 characters. (And Kevin Conroy + Mark Hamill will always be Batman + Joker in my book). But they also started first on the Superman TAS (and Batman TAS) from some years back. The Justice League series played up the maturity more since it was on in the evenings and Superman was after school but I digress.


    I wouldn't say JL/JLU was the most mature American cartoon... but it was definitely up there. Cartoons for teens + young adults, without the cheese factor of Teen Titans or uber-violence of some Anime.


    Really, it was one of the better cartoons of the last 10-15 years in my book. Batman Beyond is also way up there for me (and I think upped the maturity factor on some episodes) but I digress.



    Though Clancy Brown is my favorite Lex, I have to give mad props to Michael Rosembaum from Smallville. It wasn't always great, but he had some great scenes as Lex from time to time. My favorite was when he lost it early in the show, pointed a gun at Johnathan, and said "I guess you're right, I am the villain of the story."

    Edited on 12/12/2011 11:25am
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  • Avatar of sk_razor

    sk_razor

    [11]Jan 6, 2012
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    I think this series plot is too badly distributed. The interesting bits are watered down with too much annoyance.


    Yeah, they are probably paving the way for something new, but to me it seems there is too much corn for the show to survive for long...


    ...


    As for the smallvile luthor...


    I have serious trouble perceiving that guy as luthor. And if you've seen the justice league with him voicing the flash - you get the extra difficulty in perceiving him as even a remotely believable luthor successor... The only worse luthor was spacy.


    Not that we are likely to see an actor play a convincing comic char - especially if animations have established it firmly.


    But then again who knows their goals with this. Time will tell.



    Ah well, at least Archer continues - soonish.

    Edited on 01/06/2012 7:21pm
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [12]Mar 25, 2012
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    Robin has been getting focus again. Last week's B plot was about him leading the team and weight of leadership. Robin is so well known that it is easy to fall into the trap of having him in every episode and giving focus over least known characters. It makes sense they down play him in episodes sometimes. It is like how Bruce Timm in crew were afraid that threats would not look serious enough unless they took out or harmed Superman a lot. As a result their first season of JL had Superman look weak. They fixed it up for later seasons. YJ will probably go through that too with Robin. If this show gets a second season with how CN always puts this show on long hiatuses all the time...
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [13]Mar 27, 2012
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    sk_razor wrote:

    If you ask me it looks like the producers want to attract more girls to watch the show. As boys generally dislike watching mushy teenage relationship crap in action shows that are supposed to be about action.

    So far as Robin goes. I got disappointed right of the bat with him.
    The only one who knew about the space station base was red arrow and thats because green arrow told him. Anybody being trained by Batman should know that already. Not to mention they actually gapped out further by showing Robin easily hacking justice league systems. The only thing they left him with is the attitude and they decided to humiliate that with black canary's therapy session after the mind training meltdown.

    Coherent about him is only that he didn't take the lead to begin with on account of his impatience. It corresponded with most Robin chars out there.

    And this show cant even remotely compare to JLU. JLU has the greatest amount of maturity compared to most cartoons EVER. For instance I haven't seen a more mature and convincing Lex Luthor (or pretty much any other hero or villain) in movies or cartoons. To think of it, there is not one character in can think to complain about!(Except we didn't see enough of some) Not to mention that the relationship stories didn't intrude so much on the main episode plot.


    Yes, they try to mix a good portion of mature reasoning. But overall it doesn't come out right in the overall experience. And "hello Megan" brings us back to the days of early Scooby Doo, where they relentlessly repeated some phrases every single episode. Even mind numbing cartoons like cow and chicken didn't afford that.


    So alternate universe or not. I think this show is getting close to fighting villains like Mojo Jojo, while rescuing a lost poodle.

    I almost pissed my pants of laughter when I saw how pathetic this shows Joker is.


    But who knows, maybe their rating charts are satisfactory to them. I think that their high-profile tasks and villains can't sustain so much bullshit in the entire theme.


    I would trade this show for more JLU in a heartbeat. I would even trade it for something as old and outdated as the Swat Kats.

    I think you are being too harsh here. The title of the show is Young Justice. So you can't expect it to be a Justice League 'clone'. It's going to be marketed a bit more for younger viewers. At least it isn't a silly as Teen titans was and some episodes are closer to JL/JLU in terms of some serious moments. Some episodes are showing a build up of events that might lead to some major cliffhanger by the end of the season. So sure not everything gets wrapped up nice and neatly, but hopefully the season ender will be worth the wait. Plus being season 1 viewers have to get used to the characters and maybe by season2 when all the characters are familiar enough, then it will be more even.
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [14]Mar 30, 2012
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    sk_razor wrote:


    ...


    As for the smallvile luthor...


    I have serious trouble perceiving that guy as luthor. And if you've seen the justice league with him voicing the flash - you get the extra difficulty in perceiving him as even a remotely believable luthor successor... The only worse luthor was spacy.


    ...



    Actually, when Michael Rosenbaum was playing a real villain-Luthor he did a dang fine job. Very solid. Unfortunately those episodes were few and far between


    Most of his seasons focusing on him being a lonely guy that was raised by a jerk... and in desperate need of Clark's friendship. Not a bad way to go, they actually got the audience to empathize with the guy. Sure, they still had him running shady experiments and such.


    The full dark-side Lex episodes were usually when he'd snapped or was split between good+bad, and then towards the end of his appearances. His last couple of scenes in the series finale was also solid.



    Edited on 03/30/2012 10:46am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [15]Mar 30, 2012
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    MajLorne wrote:
    sk_razor wrote:


    ...


    I would trade this show for more JLU in a heartbeat. I would even trade it for something as old and outdated as the Swat Kats.


    I think you are being too harsh here. The title of the show is Young Justice. So you can't expect it to be a Justice League 'clone'. It's going to be marketed a bit more for younger viewers. At least it isn't a silly as Teen titans was and some episodes are closer to JL/JLU in terms of some serious moments. Some episodes are showing a build up of events that might lead to some major cliffhanger by the end of the season. So sure not everything gets wrapped up nice and neatly, but hopefully the season ender will be worth the wait. Plus being season 1 viewers have to get used to the characters and maybe by season2 when all the characters are familiar enough, then it will be more even.



    I agree with MajLorne, I think you're being a bit harsh on the show.


    It's Young Justice, it follows teenagers. Did you read their early comics? They were way more juvenile than this. One of the early issues had them facing a woman that was just cursed/blessed with Super Strength and an INCREDIBLY huge bust... and had the guys acting all excited / hormonal that they were going to get to fight her. And I'm not talking about Teen Titans Go!


    Heck, even in the various comics from just a few years ago the teen-heroes still acted like teens. Like Teen Titans (NOT go) where Rose Wilson was trying to get Blue Beetle and Kid Devil to fight over her affections and what-not. Green Arrow's reaction was just the icing on the cake.



    True, I preferred the old Timm-verse stuff (JL, JLU, Batman:TAS, etc) but this is still alright. The episodes are mostly serious, with some teenage stuff thrown in. I'm OK with that.


    Heck, I got a huge laugh out of Me'gan and Conner role-playing "hot for teacher" in the recent ep.

    Edited on 03/30/2012 10:57am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    SpiritOfNabu

    [16]May 3, 2012
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    With the introduction of all these new characters...it's feeling like Justice League Unlimited where no character really gets the spotlight and everything's a mess.

    Hopefully there are some good character deaths. I would like to see a Dick Grayson focused episode that is a bit more in your face with his abilities
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    RaizenYusuke

    [17]May 19, 2012
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    I agree with Dick getting more focus. It was understandable for them to focus on Dick the less because most fans know him and ey wanted to establish the lesser known characters. Now that the original team members left on the team are Nightwing, Superboy, and Miss Martain. I hope Nightwing gets more episodes and focus on him since SB and MM got a god number of episodes themselves last season. A episode revolving around Dick and Tim would be good.
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    firedrakes

    [18]May 20, 2012
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    ONE THING i have notice is if your not really into the lore of dc comics then you wont get half the stuff in the plot some times do to it. where first season did a better job then this season
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    MajLorne

    [19]May 22, 2012
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    It's still 'early' in the season. It's not like nearing the end and none of the other characters have gotten screen time. So far at least we have more insight to Beast Boy and Blue Beetle. This week should be awesome with the all female team BG, WG, MM, BB(ee), heading to Queenbee's country.
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    RaizenYusuke

    [20]May 22, 2012
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    True, but they litteral introduce Rocket near the end in season 1 and put her i the background in season 2 two episodes later. I am a little worried Wiseman is juggling too many characters. But I am sure the new characters will all get development ike Blue Beetle and Beast Boy. Cassie and Tim especially get development. I think Bart Alan will comein eventually. Robin (Tim), Wonder Girl (Cassie), Impulse (Bart), and Superboy were the iconic characters of the Young Justice in the comics and new Teen Titans. It sees odd to introduce Tim and Cassie and not Bart, especially since Wally retired.
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