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Did Joey Really Win Back his Red-Eyes?

How did Joey get his Red-Eyes Black Dragon back?

  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [1]Jun 29, 2007
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    People have said that Joey Wheeler won back his Red-Eyes after the cliffhanger duel in the episodes of Season 3, One for the Road.Seeing as how Joey had his Red-Eyes Black Dragon in the Doom Saga/Waking the Dragons, it was implied that he won the duel against Yugi in the season finale. But can him using the card show that Joey actually beat the King of Games or are there other reasons why he still has Red-Eyes.

    Here they are: (they're the same options like in the poll)

    1. Yugi gave Red-Eyes back to Joey out of pity even though Yugi won the duel
    2. Joey lost, but went out to go and buy another Red-Eyes from a card store
    3. Joey actually beat Yugi and retrieved his Red-Eyes

    Here's my reasoning for each one of the choices.

    • Yugi is a pretty nice guy and is willing to do anything to help out his friends. In Journey to the Duelist Kingdom, Yugi gave his Time Wizard to Joey despite the fact that it helped him out in situations. When Joey and Yugi dueled in the Duelist Kingdom Championships, Time Wizard helped Yugi out because it transformed his Dark Magician into Dark Sage. That combo could have assisted Yugi in many situations in the future. Had Yugi kept Time Wizard, he could have used that in many new combos.

    Let's say that Yugi used some of his combos to beat Joey and his deck. Joey might have lost, but he wouldn't beg for his Red-Eyes. Yugi would have been caring enough to say that he couldn't keep Red-Eyes any longer and insisted that Joey take back his card. Even though Joey gets back his Red-Eyes, he never really beat Yugi and because of Yugi's care and compassion for his friends, he returned the card.

    • Red-Eyes Black Dragon was never an extremely rare card like Blue-Eyes White Dragon is. Kaiba said that there were only 4 Blue-Eyes in existence and he had three of them while Grandpa Mutou had one of them. Rex Raptor never said that Red-Eyes was one of just a limited amount of cards, so Joey could have gone and bought a Red-Eyes. There are various card stores in the town of Domino and some of them could keep one of those cards in stock and he could have simply bought one or won one in a duel against the store keeper. Yugi could have kept Joey's old Red-Eyes back in Grandpa's Card Shop for people to look at.

    • Joey was a pretty good duelist and it was never said that he lost to Yugi later on in the series. The duel could have ended in Joey's favor thus granting him access to his Red-Eyes Black Dragon. The duel could have been just a playful duel, so Atem/Yugi didn't duel his hardest and making it in the next season that Joey has his Red-Eyes back.
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  • Avatar of Dmluciano

    Dmluciano

    [2]Jun 29, 2007
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    I hope he won it. Joey! Joey Joey...
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  • Avatar of PackNeedlez1

    PackNeedlez1

    [3]Jun 29, 2007
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    I choose the mystery fourth option, they stopped mid-duel and Yugi gave it bak.
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  • Avatar of jadenalover

    jadenalover

    [4]Jun 29, 2007
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    we just see them starting to duel so i think yami actually let joey beat him because i think yami knew that joey needed it for future tournaments
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  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [5]Jun 29, 2007
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    For the record, I voted for the first option.
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  • Avatar of SPDShadowRanger

    SPDShadowRanger

    [6]Jun 29, 2007
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    We just dicussed this last week I believe. Most people just assume he won.
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  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [7]Jun 30, 2007
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    SPDShadowRanger wrote:
    We just dicussed this last week I believe. Most people just assume he won.

    I apologize for creating a duplicate thread.

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  • Avatar of darkrunner

    darkrunner

    [8]Jun 30, 2007
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    Nah, it's not a duplicate thread, we had just started talking about it in a random thread. I think it's good that we finally have a thread to discuss this in. I don't believe that Jounouchi could ever beat Yugi. It seems odd for me, a huge Jou fan, to say that, but I like to believe that in Yugioh world, that's how things work. Obviously in the real world, no one could NOT lose, and rankings don't stay constant. But Yugi is the king of games. I refuse to accept that he would lose to ANYONE. Judai included.

    That said, what I believed happened is either they tied or Jou lost, but Yugi did give him the card. He did not give him the card out of pity (did you just use the wrong word, minerva, or did you really mean pity?) but because Jounouchi proved himself to be a true duelist. As for the second choice, I have never heard that before, and I do not believe that would happen. While Red-Eyes aren't as limited as Blue Eyes, they are still very rare, and to quote Ryuzaki, are worth "a few hundred thousand yen". Jounouchi does not have a few hundred thousand yen to spend on a new Red Eyes, and even if he did, it wouldn't be the same. That would be like Yugi losing his Dark Magician and getting a red one to take its place.
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  • Avatar of PackNeedlez1

    PackNeedlez1

    [9]Jun 30, 2007
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    I agree with Runner that Jou couldn't win and yugi knew this, so instead of beating him, I think he stopped the duel and gave the card back.
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  • Avatar of roguele_beau

    roguele_beau

    [10]Jun 30, 2007
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    I think there's a real possibility Joey could have won Red Eyes from Yugi, not Atem but Yugi. Either that or Yugi pulled what he did when he dueled Rebecca where he forfeits the duel midway through. Either way I think Joey and Yugi had an AWESOME duel!

    I really don't think Joey's pride would allow him to take it from Yugi if any 'pity' or favors were involved. If so he would have taken it initally anyway.
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  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [11]Jul 5, 2007
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    When I said pity, I didn't mean that Yugi was feeling sorry for him, but as a friend he felt that Joey dueled well enough that he deserved his card back. I should have said it better in the poll. This is how I think that their dialogue went:

    Yugi: Joey, you dueled well and I think that you've transformed as a duelist. You've earned a gift from me.

    Joey: What are you talking about Yugi?

    Yugi: You've earned back your Red-Eyes Black Dragon.

    Joey: Stop being so noble, Yugi. Keep the card, I don't want it.

    Yugi: Joey, you deserved it. Your dueling skills have greatly improved and you need your card back.

    Joey: I gave it to you, Yug. Keep it.

    Yugi: The card has helped me and now it's time it has helped you. (hands Joey the card)

    Joey: No, Yugi. I said stop.

    Yugi: I insist, Joey. The card is super special awesome and you need it. Don't worry. That weird voice in my head has disappeared, Joey.

    The last two sentences by Yugi are references to Abridged Series.

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  • Avatar of darkrunner

    darkrunner

    [12]Jul 5, 2007
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    Hmm... I think that Jounouchi would have accepted the card right away. Yugi, and especially Atem, wouldn't give it to him if he hadn't earned it. I think that if they had offered him the card, it would be in recognition of him becoming a true duelist, and as a true duelist, he would know that he really earned Red Eyes. But that's just me.
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  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [13]Jul 5, 2007
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    darkrunner wrote:
    Hmm... I think that Jounouchi would have accepted the card right away. Yugi, and especially Atem, wouldn't give it to him if he hadn't earned it. I think that if they had offered him the card, it would be in recognition of him becoming a true duelist, and as a true duelist, he would know that he really earned Red Eyes. But that's just me.

    When Joey originally gave Yugi the Red-Eyes Black Dragon, he had a special intention for Yugi to have it.

    To quote Joey:

    Joey: Nah, Yug. It isn't mine to take, you won it fair and square. Besides, the Rare Hunters have collected tons of rare cards, so their decks are going to be really souped up. So I know that they're going to be hard to beat even for you.

    Yugi: What are you trying to say, Joey?

    Joey: I'm saying...one day, you'll need all of the powerful monsters in your deck that you can get. Plus, you can think of me whenever you play my Red-Eyes.

    He might resist from taking the card because that card was extremely helpful to both of them and Yugi did win it, but Joey told him that he should keep it for help. Joey might not have known that there was going to be danger in the future, but he did know enough that he wanted to help his best friend in the future.

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  • Avatar of darkrunner

    darkrunner

    [14]Jul 6, 2007
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    You make a good point, but all of that was changed for the dub. Jou didn't say anything about Red Eyes helping Yugi in the original. He told Yugi to hold onto the card until he became a true duelist, and then asked if Yugi would fight him when he became a true duelist.
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  • Avatar of minerva73

    minerva73

    [15]Jul 6, 2007
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    darkrunner wrote:
    You make a good point, but all of that was changed for the dub. Jou didn't say anything about Red Eyes helping Yugi in the original. He told Yugi to hold onto the card until he became a true duelist, and then asked if Yugi would fight him when he became a true duelist.

    The thing is that whether or not Joey/Jounouchi became a real duelist. Sure he dueled many people in the Doom Saga with Red-Eyes, but aren't true duelists supposed to have the will to keep on fighting? Joey lost two times because of the technicality that he couldn't keep on dueling because of his strength. He died/went to the Shadow Realm when he dueled Marik on Alcatraz Tower because he had his life force drained and he lost when he was flustered after his duel with Valon/Varon and went to duel Mai.

    I'm not saying that Joey's not a true duelist, but he should have been able to survive both of those situations especially the first one seeing as how others could survive it. Mai practically survived that if it weren't for her anger at Joey.

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  • Avatar of darkrunner

    darkrunner

    [16]Jul 7, 2007
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    minerva73 wrote:
    The thing is that whether or not Joey/Jounouchi became a real duelist. Sure he dueled many people in the Doom Saga with Red-Eyes, but aren't true duelists supposed to have the will to keep on fighting? Joey lost two times because of the technicality that he couldn't keep on dueling because of his strength. He died/went to the Shadow Realm when he dueled Marik on Alcatraz Tower because he had his life force drained and he lost when he was flustered after his duel with Valon/Varon and went to duel Mai.

    I'm not saying that Joey's not a true duelist, but he should have been able to survive both of those situations especially the first one seeing as how others could survive it. Mai practically survived that if it weren't for her anger at Joey.

    Actually... it's the other way around for the first one. It was a miracle that Jounouchi wasn't INSTANTLY killed by Ra. Yugi only survived because it was regular Ra. Pheonix Ra was the ultimate last form, the most powerful version of Ra. Jounouchi should have died on the spot, but because he was so strong, he was able to stay alive for another few seconds. Mai was, and I quote, going to "burn to ash" when Ra attacked her. Sure, she might've won if she had listened to their advice, but in that situation, if Yugi and Jou hadn't stepped in, she most likely would have died.

    In the second one, Wayne Grayson just doesn't do a good job of convenying that Jou is really hurting after his duel with Varon. (That's probably what he was directed to do, though.) While the dub does mention that Joey was weak from his duel, you never really get the sense of he's-about-to-pass-out-from-exhaustion like you do in the original.

    I never thought it was a question of whether Jounouchi was a true duelist or not, just if he beat Yugi or not. Mai even says something on the lines of "Jounouchi, you've become a true duelist" in episode 143. (I don't know the exact wording, but I did hear "Jounouchi" and "shin no duelist" in the same sentence.)

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  • Avatar of Matt_Purosky

    Matt_Purosky

    [17]Jul 13, 2007
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    This is just one of those things where you use your... *poses like SpongeBob* IMAGINATION.
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  • Avatar of roguele_beau

    roguele_beau

    [18]Jul 14, 2007
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    If only someone would just tell us! Ok, I declare Joey won back his REBD! 'Nuff said!
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  • Avatar of Dmluciano

    Dmluciano

    [19]Jul 14, 2007
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    Heres what really happened. Yugi: Now Dark Magican attack him directly and win me this duel. Joey: 0. (Both duelists go to shake hands) "That was a good duel joey" "Yeh it was yugi" (Pulls out gun) Now give me my red eyes you mother f*cker "but why joey?" "Sorry Yugi but 4kids can't save you know"
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  • Avatar of roguele_beau

    roguele_beau

    [20]Jul 15, 2007
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    Have you been eating sugar?
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